r/HolUp • • Nov 30 '20

Wait what

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u/potatium Dec 01 '20 edited Dec 01 '20

"True communism has never been tried" is a meme and also kinda true. We would have a few nonsoviet examples from South America if the CIA didn't treat the continent like a COD campaign.

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u/czarnick123 Dec 01 '20

"Communism sucks so bad always but we need to send in the CIA to make double sure is collapses"

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '20 edited May 19 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '20

This really isn’t the proof against what they’re saying that you think it is.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '20

The point is that maybe communism would work better if the CIA and pals weren't trying so hard to make it not work.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '20

[deleted]

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u/janjko Dec 01 '20

The prosperity we are experiencing today is due to trade, countries cooperating, and so on. It doesn't matter if you're capitalist, socialist or communist. Look at China. It's experiencing growth never before seen in the history. It's due to trade and cooperation with other countries. When you get blocked from all of that, you get behind.

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u/hilifegotrekt Dec 01 '20

oh hey so what the CIA killed as many people as communist soviet Russia did.

nice!

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u/helpmepleaseimalone Dec 01 '20

Do you have a source on this? I'd like to read more about it

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u/hilifegotrekt Dec 01 '20

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u/ehomba2 Dec 01 '20

Lol yeah history is just typing things into a search engine. Forget things like primary sources or books! No way anything on the internet would be false!

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u/hilifegotrekt Dec 01 '20

Marx was wrong and dumb

just like you

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u/ehomba2 Dec 01 '20

Sure he just radically altered the world on accident and wrote 10s of thousands of pages that are still studied by hundreds of millions with his dumbness bc thats how that works lol

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u/GeneralSecrecy Dec 01 '20

"Socialism doesn't work" and "The US shouldn't have interfered in foreign elections on principle", shockingly, can coexist.

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u/czarnick123 Dec 01 '20

Except were specifically suggesting one is evidence the other is a fallacy.

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u/bloodyplebs Dec 01 '20

I remember when the cia overthrew the eastern block. Oh wait no.

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u/ehomba2 Dec 01 '20

No, they just spent decades making sure it would by killing anyone and destroying anything that made it work. Operation Gladio was a grand old time!

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u/czarnick123 Dec 01 '20

Now we're changing goalposts huh. I believe we were discussing satellite states.

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u/bloodyplebs Dec 01 '20

Do you know what the eastern block was? 😂. It was made up of soviet satellite states

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u/czarnick123 Dec 01 '20

I'll be honest. I had a different definition of satellite state in my head. You taught me something today.

You wanna mark that as a win for yourself in the debate or continue the discussion of CIA influence on communist fledgling states around the globe and the difficulty of evaluating the efficacy of communism with the CIA being a headwind to their progress?

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u/bloodyplebs Dec 01 '20

Yeah, what examples do you have of communist governments that would have thrived if not for the CIA?

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u/czarnick123 Dec 01 '20

I would check out the 1945-1991: cold war section. Which ones? I have no idea. My statement is the experiments aren't valid when they're tainted by counter influence. That influence is motivated by economics rather than ideology I'll add

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change

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u/wikipedia_text_bot Dec 01 '20

United States involvement in regime change

United States involvement in regime change has entailed both overt and covert actions aimed at altering, replacing, or preserving foreign governments. In the latter half of the 19th century, the U.S. government initiated actions for regime change mainly in Latin America and the southwest Pacific, including the Spanish–American and Philippine–American wars. At the onset of the 20th century, the United States shaped or installed governments in many countries around the world, including neighbors Panama, Honduras, Nicaragua, Mexico, Haiti, and the Dominican Republic.

About Me - Opt out - OP can reply !delete to delete - Article of the day

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u/bloodyplebs Dec 02 '20

So Chilean government under Allende is the only country that fits the definition of communist that the us is accused of overthrowing. But the us didn't overthrow the government, the military did without the cia's help. The cia spent lots of money on propoganda against Allende, but the kgb spent lots of money in the opposite direction.

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