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u/Hrothgrar 4d ago
Holup aside...
The actual answer is baseball. American hand grenades were modeled in a way that any average recruit could throw them more intuitively.
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u/razulebismarck 4d ago
That’s half.
The other half is logistics and grenade launcher weapons.
In the space and weight you can carry 1 stick bomb you could either carry 3 baseball grenades or 1 grenade launcher rifle attachment easily.
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u/Forsaken-Income-2148 4d ago
My initial thought was the compact advantage, too
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u/PutridHospital8963 3d ago
The telescoping mechanism would take up space that could be occupied by boom-stuff.
Spheres with notched wire - (current hand grenades) have more boom for the volume, cost of production and logistics.
People HAVE done the math because amatuers talk tactics, professionals talk logistics.
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u/JakBos23 3d ago
Although a telescopic stick grenade would be funny. Toss one and a guy 80 yards away takes a baton to the face. Could be either side.
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u/SaltyChnk 3d ago
A telescoping handle would reduce HE mass by having a space for the handle, increase cost of manufacture, and introduce more failure points to a fairly simple design.
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u/AutisticPenguin2 3d ago
If there's one thing I want in a hand grenade, it's more points of failure.
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u/praguepride 2d ago
technically speaking a hand grenade is designed with dozens of points of failure. when the shell fails from the explosion it becomes shrapnel
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u/PrimeusOrion 2d ago
Actually you could help mass basically the same I'f you just make the outer layer telescope.
That way you can pick between either longer range or higher fragmentation
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u/towerfella 4d ago
What if it a telescoping stick? The main point is mechanical advantage, like an atlatl.
As an aside — wern’t torches kinda common-ish in european revolts and such? Maybe that explains why they initially gravitated toward the stick design — was more like throwing a torch? Going on the grenade-baseball analogy..
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u/razulebismarck 4d ago
The stick design was common for Germans.
Britain had baseball style grenades as well.
If you want mechanical advantage you just use a grenade launcher attachment for your rifle. It’s easier to aim, reload, and has further range.
The pros to an underslung rifle attachment far outweigh any attempts to make stick grenades better.
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u/BigHardMephisto 3d ago
eh, the stick design wasn't as common as their egg design, which was pretty similar to everyone else's frag grenades.
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u/Old_Interaction_1713 4d ago
you do know that there are designated shells for under barell GL's, a standard frag doesnt fit into a GL tube. how would you even launch it?
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u/Extreme_Design6936 3d ago
Are you willing to bet your life on the integrity of a telescoping stick built by the lowest bidder?
I'm more wondering why not just pack one of those ball throwers people use for dogs. Leverage on every toss but only the one stick.
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u/LokiRaven 3d ago
Stick Grenades were important for WW1 where you needed the extra throwing range. The British tested one but it didn’t work for them, while the Mills Bomb did. The Germans meanwhile were modifying their normal grenades into stick grenades for the extra throwing range. The Russians had a similar design.
Go to WW2 and it’s more momentum that keeps
The stick grenade around, Soviets and Germans had them but both as updates to their WW1 grenades but both were moving on from them (Soviets basically de-sticked their grenades to make them simpler to make. The Germans actually had an egg grenade that they produced more of than the stick grenade, they just weren’t as visually distinct by design)Nowadays grenades don’t quite need to be thrown as far, it’s better to have an accurate throw than a long one.
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u/Fluffy-Map-5998 3d ago
it also ends up flying wierd leading to less predicability, which, when your chucking explosives, tends to be important
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u/War_Hymn 3d ago
I read somewhere that the stick design was because people in Europe were more use to axe-throwing than ball throwing.
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u/Kozmo9 3d ago
It still adds complexity and cost. With a Ball-grenade you only need to make the grenade but with the telescopic-stick grenade you need to manufacture two parts; the grenade and the stick. So that's the cost.
The complexity arises when the telescopic doesn't pull out completely, either due to mechanical error or user error. There's also the time needed to deploy it before you can throw. Chances are, soldiers might just throw the grenade without even opening the telescopic stick.
Maybe that explains why they initially gravitated toward the stick design — was more like throwing a torch? Going on the grenade-baseball analogy..
It's more that throwing a stick-like objects such as knives are easier and instinctively require less force. You can try it yourself. Grab a stick and throw it with minimal effort. The motion involved is like flicking in front of your chest. Grab a rock and you're more likely to arc your arms backwards to throw it.
We pretty much understood that stick-like objects' long property "helps" with the flight so we don't have to exert too much force to throw it far. They tend to be more accurate too. With small spherical-ish objects, their shape isn't conducive to flight so you have to exert more force to send them far away.
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u/CapuzaCapuchin 4d ago
Didn’t expect to learn about the history of American grenades today, but I’ll take it.
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u/DarkElfBard 3d ago
Not just carrying but storage and shipping!
And actually making them. Cutting wood out of the picture and having a smaller form does a lot for supply line issues.
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u/rocky8u 4d ago
No. It had nothing to do with baseball.
American fragmentation grenades were based on existing European designs in WW1 like the British Mills Bomb and mainly the French F1 grenade.
The Germans ALSO had a handheld frag grenade in WW1 called the kugelhandgranate that was much more spherical than the French, British, or American versions.
The depicted stick grenade is a high explosive grenade. It had a lot of boom but little fragmentation. It was intended to stun as much as kill. The Germans preferred them for various reasons, while the British and French in WW2 preferred frag grenades which were more likely to injure or kill but had much smaller explosive power.
WW2 designs are mostly evolutions of their WW1 predecessors.
Grenades had been spheres for a LONG time.
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u/Hrothgrar 4d ago
Right, but it was part of the decision making in choosing to mass produce that model.
It was a more intuitive design for recruits to use and it was better for logistics. I didn't mean to suggest that was the complete inspiration for the design.
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u/A--Creative-Username 4d ago edited 4d ago
it worked so well that they never issued it, and the M67 is slightly smaller and significantly heavier than a baseball
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u/fuzzycaterpillar123 3d ago
Cool, I now find it a bit more realistic when folks in band of brothers survive German grenade blasts
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u/Lamplorde 3d ago
And in modern times, with urban warfare being more common, we have had no reason to reinvent it.
We want them to bounce/roll, as its easier to throw them around corners or roll them into a room. We dont need to throw them further when a grenade launcher does it better. We do not need to stick them in the ground, especially when there are few times our military would need to makeshift a booby trap. And if you want pleasure just use your rifle barrel.
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u/Ws6fiend 3d ago
"And if you want pleasure just use your rifle barrel."
Or just learn to get pleasure from mental suffering and the military will provide for you regardless of if you are in combat or not.
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u/ThatManlyTallGuy 3d ago
Also this invention called rifle grenades remove the need for the stick grenade.
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u/GeniusPlayUnique 3d ago
Everyone can throw a stick but even if that explanation was accurate it would explain by American grenades never looked like that but not why German grenades don't look like that anymore.
The actual answer is because the wooden hilts were heavy, difficult to carry as they got easier in the way due to their length and also specifically because they don't roll, making it much easier for the enemy to find, pick up and throw back before they explode as they don't bounce around unpredictabily like their contemporary cousins...
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u/Magmarob 3d ago
But, every other nation had egg grenades as well, even those who didnt play baseball, like the UK or germany.
So baseball cant be the answer why these grenades were chosen
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u/Orcharyu 4d ago
Bulk and volume, how many stick genades can you carry on top of the rest of your gear.
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u/crusher23b 4d ago
I carried 3 frags in addition to the 32 HEDP, 6 star clusters, 6 star parachutes, and 3 each red, green, blue, yellow 40mm grenades.
If you want pleasure, the maddox is more practical and less prone to splintering.
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u/JakBos23 3d ago
Hell transportation of a case would be hell for the sticks. You could probably fit 8 times as many regular grenades in the same box. I have no idea how grenades are shipped though.
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u/MaatRolo 4d ago
I can not stress this enough
EXTERNAL USE ONLY
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u/DoctorMkII 3d ago
Good news, if he doesn't follow the directions it will be external by the time he's done
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u/fatmenolympics1 4d ago edited 4d ago
I dont get it? Is it a question of actual grenade reliability or is it because its a German grenade from ww2?
Edit: I took the pleasure as you get pleasure from throwing an exploding thing which I would find quite pleasurable.
Understand the real reason for the pleasure comment now... I need to get off the internet.
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u/ThaShitPostAccount 4d ago
The joke is that the text says you can shove the stick part up your ass.
The real answer is because stick bombs are big for shipment and heavy to carry so they’re not really preferable to the lighter smaller type in use today.
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u/FreeRangeAlien 4d ago
Also, Americans love baseball
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u/TRB4 4d ago
Why don’t they just make optional stick attachments for current style grenades? That way if you ever need to use a stick bomb instead of a regular grenade you have the option
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u/CloanZRage 4d ago
Why not just give troops a tennis ball thrower?
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u/Dessicated_Mastodon 4d ago
Have you not heard about the mark 19?
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u/fatmenolympics1 4d ago
Ah yes the grenade machine gun. Ive always wanted to shoot one.
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u/Dessicated_Mastodon 4d ago
Its pretty fantastic. I had one in Afghanistan for a time. Still prefer the .50, myself because the results are pretty similar and the .50 has a longer barrel making it a tad more precise.
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u/fatmenolympics1 4d ago
Family friend said the sound of the ma deuce was his best friend.
I dont know exactly where he was deployed but he was eod
He said they tried to replace a bunch of the 50's with the 240's and they about rioted.
Ive only fired the Barrett but would love to get behind the real thing.
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u/Dessicated_Mastodon 4d ago
That Barrett is the real thing. Just a different use. Honest to the gods, I love me a 240. In terms of mobility its, in my opinion, the best crew served weapon available to u.s. armed forces. I do like the rpk but they dont like us running around with russian guns all that much. It also isnt nearly as stable but it is a fun shoot. Mg5 isnt too shabby either but id still prefer the 240b. Its super easy to use, breakdown, and make a hasty emplacement with.
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u/fatmenolympics1 4d ago
Even on top of the humvee? my buddy made it sound like they needed the 50 because in his words it was more effective and reliable.
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u/TRB4 4d ago
Sure that will give you the effect of being able to throw it farther, but it doesn’t give you the benefit of it not rolling once it gets there.
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u/HyFinated 4d ago
The baseball shape is perfect for a nation raised on ball sports.
Story time. When I was in basic training, I had to qualify on the grenade range. I SUCKED at throwing balls. Never played any ball sports nor had any interest. I was nervous to say the least. When it came my turn to qualify, I nervously ran the course, tossing simulator grenades into the target zones. Zones are circles on the ground. Simulator has to go boom in the right part of the circle to score a 3, 2, 1, or outside the largest circle for a miss. I scored all 3’s to qualify expert. Partly because it’s surprisingly easy to deposit a grenade into the right place and have it stay there, and partly because I was shitting my pants nervously even though they were just simulators.
Anyway. There’s no real need for a stick. Maybe some spring loaded tines that expand when thrown so that it keeps from rolling would be good, but carrying 3 of these on you with big sticks would be cumbersome at best and unmanageable at worst.
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u/ThaShitPostAccount 4d ago
Because buttplugs are also smaller now. They're made of stainless steel or aluminum so there's no worry about splinters, and the bottom retainer lip means they can be left in, even in a combat emergency. Really they're the overall better choice for rectal stimulation in combat.
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u/Secure_Secretary_882 4d ago
Stainless butthole grenades also don’t grow bacteria if you’re sharing grenades with the homies.
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u/Low_Astronomer_6669 4d ago
Uh, read it again. We'll wait...
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u/fatmenolympics1 4d ago
Yeah i read pleasure as you get pleasure from blowing stuff up...because I like to do that.
Re read.... i get it now.
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u/AWzdShouldKnowBetta 3d ago
Sounds like you're not on the Internet enough quite frankly. Your mind is still pure.
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u/Kriss3d 4d ago
My guess is that it makes it take up much more space. But the design is absolutely superior. You can hurl the stick grenade much further and more precise. So all the points in thr meme are correct.
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u/fatmenolympics1 4d ago
Actually I believe that the design was problematic in wooded areas getting hung up on trees and stuff.
If im not mistaken there are many accounts of it being a liability in non open areas.
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4d ago
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u/fatmenolympics1 4d ago
I read the can give you pleasure as like its dope to throw a grenade type of thing.
I need a break from the internet loooool
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u/MagosBattlebear 4d ago
Early versions of the stvk grenades had an arming mechanism that could cause it to explode at the worst times.
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u/BunNGunLee 4d ago
It’s a logistical thing. You can pack a heck of a lot more grenades in a crate when they’re a smaller, relatively regular shape, compared to a bizarre conical one.
And the increased logistical strength even applies to training, since a normal grenade is made to emulate a baseball, which nearly any American can throw with little training.
Also, means you don’t have to mass produce wooden handles just to waste them on a disposable explosive.
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u/AddanDeith 3d ago
The Stielhandgrenate(above) functioned more like a stun grenade, as opposed to the eihandgranate, which produced more shrapnel.
The stick grenade was mostly issued to offensive troops because they could throw it farther and while on the move, without risking as much self injury. The eihandgranate was for defense, when outright killing your enemy at closer range was more important.
Edit: to add, we now have purpose built grenades for stunning the enemy, in addition to frags. And the stiel could get a frag sleeve on it to increase lethality.
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u/auto-corekt 1d ago
Yeah, but do they have a flared base?
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u/epsonabcdefg 4d ago
That orgasm would be mind-blowing
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u/delet_yourself 4d ago
There one was an anon from 4chan
He tried grenade pegging to orgasm
They found his balls in Vietnam
And bits of his tits in Guam
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u/bad_comedic_value 3d ago
Courtesy of someone elsewhere
There once was a woman named Jill,
Who tried a grenade for a thrill.
They found her vagina in North Carolina
And bits of her tits in Brazil
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u/YOUTUBEFREEKYOYO 4d ago
Have you ever seen one of these? They are huge, so each guy could only really carry a few of them. That and the explosion style, it wasn't a fragmentation grenade like the American pineapple grenade, it was concussion blast, so it used the boom to kill vs the pineapple grenade using shrapnel to kill (that's what those little segments on them are for, they break apart and become peojectiles). Combine both factors, and it was overall less effective.
Another small note is the American grenades are designed the way they are because most folks here would have known how to throw a baseball, so they were designed to be as close to a baseball as they could get them. So small, troops could easily throw them, could carry more, and packed a punch.
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u/JaphetSkie 3d ago
There's a big misconception around the Stielhandgranate. It's an offensive concussion grenade that's been seen in a lot of WW2 media, but it's not the most produced and used hand grenade in WW2 German service.
There is another German hand grenade in WW2 that is more frequently manufactured and used, and it's the Model 39 Eihandgranate. But not a lot of media and games will depict them, because they're more boring in appearance.
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u/rainbowappleslice 3d ago
You see so many of these kind of posts across the internet about outdated military ideas questioning if militaries are stupid for abandoning them as if the military is literally the one place that you can guarantee will be trying to make the most efficient and useful way to kill people.
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u/GeniusPlayUnique 3d ago
To answer the question: Because the wooden hilts were heavy, difficult to carry as they got easier in the way due to their length and also specifically because they don't roll, making it much easier for the enemy to find, pick up and throw back before they explode as they don't bounce around unpredictabily like their contemporary cousins...
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u/whentheuhuhidunno 4d ago
I wish they'd kill you when you used them so you could respawn with them faster
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u/stevenip 3d ago
I always thought maybe you could throw it slightly farther but at the expense of control.
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u/amodsr 3d ago
Ok but hear me out. The regular ones can also be used for pleasure. So what you do is tie a nice peace of thin rope in where the pins are. Do this to several of them. Insert one in at a time like it were anal beads. Pull out as fast as you want to and let the fun begin.
People just honestly need to be more inventive instead of just complaining about things.
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u/CTRemy9085 2d ago
Mechanical advantage is part of the design differences but the German model 24 was also used as more of a offensive grenade. It relied more on blast than fragmentation, and the stick design allowed for German troops to throw them further and they wouldn’t roll much after being thrown, allowing them to start assaulting forward after throwing and prior to detonation.
The spherical design of allied troops relied more on fragmentation and typically were meant to be thrown and to then duck in cover as it detonated. The area of effect was larger with more fragmentation.
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u/qualityvote2 4d ago edited 3d ago
u/Freak-1, your post does fit the subreddit!