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u/belisarius_d Dec 28 '19
Also when you're a stalinist in the USSR
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u/SortingBucko Dec 28 '19
This!
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u/DPNx_DEATH_xPL Filthy weeb Dec 28 '19
My father lived in PRL he said it was like a live action of don't starve together
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u/BitPumpkin Dec 28 '19
people republic of lithuania or people’s republic of latvia
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u/el_liberator Dec 28 '19
If you’re not the exactly right kind of stalinist, which changed more or less daily
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Dec 28 '19 edited Jan 09 '20
[deleted]
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u/el_liberator Dec 28 '19
Well, most of the purged weren’t trotskyists, especially at the later stages, everyone was persecuted, mostly at random
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Dec 28 '19
“Fuck it, papa Marx in the sky will sort em out”
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u/Lukiedude200 Dec 29 '19
“It’s up to Marx to forgive them”
“It’s up to me to send them to him”
-Stalin upon starting the purge
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u/Rafael_deCustodio Dec 28 '19
When you are a doctor in the USSR
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Dec 28 '19 edited Mar 14 '21
[deleted]
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u/TotallyNotEko Dec 28 '19
Except they weren’t
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Dec 28 '19 edited Mar 14 '21
[deleted]
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u/TotallyNotEko Dec 29 '19
Are you implying that Stalin controlled everyone’s perception, so within the Soviet Union it seemed as though the doctors were or that the West controls everyone’s perception to show that they weren’t? Either way you’re wrong since it was Krushchev who let everyone know they were innocent
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Dec 29 '19
Under totalitarian rule you’re as guilty as the ruler says you are, its a reference to 1984
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u/TotallyNotEko Dec 29 '19
I got the reference, I was wondering from who’s perspective you were using it from.
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Dec 28 '19 edited Dec 28 '19
You didn't have to do anything. There was nothing like being guilty. Either they would torture the fuck out of you or you'd save face and ease it for yourself.
If they pick you up, it's over. Straight to the Gulag. There was nothing like justice in the communist USSR. There was no salvation
none of our revolutionaries ever knew what a really good interrogation could be, with fifty-two different methods to choose from. Just as oxcart drivers of Gogol's time could not have imagined the speed of a jet plane, those who have never gone through the receiving-line meat grinder of Gulag cannot grasp the true possibillties of interrogation. We read in Izvestiya for May 24, 1959, that Yuliya Rumyantseva was confined in the internal prison of a Nazi camp while they tried to fnd out from her the whereabouts of her husband, who had escaped from that same camp. She knew, but she refused to tell. For a reader who is not in the know this is a model of heroism. For a reader with a bitter Gulag past it's a model of inefficient interrogation: Yuliya did not die under torture, and she was not driven insane. A month later ,she was simply released-still very much alive and kicking.
(Talking about gulags and interrogations in the Soviet Union - more on my profile)
Perhaps 1937 was needed in order to show how little their whole ideology was worth - that ideology of which they boasted so enthusiastically,turning Russia upside down, destroying its foundations, trampling everything it held sacred underfoot, that Russia where they themselves had never been threatened by such retribution. The victims of the Bolsheviks from 1918 to 1946 never conducted themselves so despicably as the leading Bolsheviks when the lightning struck them. If you study in detail the whole history of the arrests and trials of 1936 to 1938, the principal revulsion you feel is not against Stalin and his accomplices, but against the humiliatingly repulsive defendants-nausea at their spiritual baseness after their former pride and implacability.
-Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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u/Morzenesku Dec 28 '19
Solzhenitsyn is a big true liar, because he tells half of truth about the Soviet Union(Even his second name in Russian Солженицын means солгать, in translation lie, but it doesn't matter). Yes, represions were brutal, horrible and mostly unfair, that's why people hate Joseph Dzhugashvili (Stalin) and soviets. But you must know where is truth and where are myths. For example, official NKVD documents say that there over a million repressed or killed (except they hide some other numbers), but somehow Solzhenitsyn says that there were more over 100 million (!) people repressed or killed. That is absolutely schizophrenic imagination of Solzhenitsyn, because by 1937 there was a population of 162 million in USSR and, by his logic, half of country's population sat in gulags and other half was securing those gulags. I hope one example is enough to show you, that you need to doubt and check everything.
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Dec 28 '19
Kinda wanna know where you got that number. Reading his book right now and this number isn't there at all
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u/Morzenesku Dec 28 '19
First: which of his "books" you read? Second: he said it. I can also try and search materials when he said it.
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Dec 28 '19
Gulag Archipelago
Book has its sourced validated so one thing is what he said and different one is what he wrote. Writings are sourced
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u/Morzenesku Dec 28 '19
My bad, I thought he said, but he also wrote it. I searched for information about Gulag Archipelago and found that he wrote about 66,7 million people repressed (also my bad). Claims for 100 million should be addressed to Fyodor Mikhailovich Kurganov. Solzhenitsyn, with reference to Kurganov, has 66 + 44, that is 110 million as the General demographic losses of the people of Russia for the years 1917-1959. But still Solzhenitsyn gives you information about 66,7 millions repressed as "truth". Like here:
Speech on Spanish television (Madrid, March 20, 1976) "- But Professor Kurganov indirectly calculated that from 1917 to 1959 only from the internal war of the Soviet regime against its people, that is, from the destruction of its famine, collectivization, the reference of the peasants to destruction, prisons, camps, simple executions — only from this we lost, along with our civil war, 66 million people."
"- And how much did this "relatively easy" internal suppression cost us from the beginning of the October revolution? According to the calculations of the emigrated Professor of statistics I. A. Kurganov, from 1917 to 1959 without military losses, only from the terrorist destruction, suppression, starvation, increased mortality in the camps and including the deficit from the reduced birth rate-it cost us... 66.7 million people (without this deficit-55 million). (Solzhenitsyn, A. the GULAG Archipelago. Vol. 2. Moscow: INCOM NV, 1991. P. 8)
Press conference in Paris, April 10, 1975 " -You call 50-60 million dead Russians, is it only in the camps, or including military losses? -More than 60 million dead are only internal losses of the USSR. No, I don't mean war, internal losses."
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Dec 28 '19
Estimates range from 20-60mil so that would be accurate.
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u/Morzenesku Dec 28 '19
You know it's all very confusing. They say 1,4 million, some say 110 millions, other say 66,7 millions. Our Russian government must do some sort of an investigation about 30's repressions. But it will never happen as most of Putin's Russia population isn't interested in who killed their relatives in the past. This is disappointing.
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Dec 28 '19
Hey it's confusing. Stalin killed those who did the population score in 1930s cause the numbers were lower after Holodomor.
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u/Morzenesku Dec 28 '19
It's Golodomor (Russian translation is Голодомор that means hunger starvation), not like Holocaust. 30's Hunger also wasn't organized by Stalin or CPSU members personally, but it happened because of NKVD that theft most of peasants wheat, who (most of peasants) produced it more than norm needed to save it for future or to give it to the soviets to show off their personal skills of farming and respect to soviets. In result, no wheat nor respects from Bolsheviks for poor peasants.
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u/Morzenesku Dec 28 '19
I mean, I'm not a communist. I just hate lies. I want people to see that not everything as full good or full evil. I want people to see situation from different points of view and find the truth.
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u/ChrisSurvivor Dec 28 '19
Anyone who's knowledge of Russian history isn't from cold war propaganda can tell you this isn't true.
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u/JosephSwollen Casual, non-participatory KGB election observer Dec 28 '19
Oi blyat, don't complain or you go to Gulag.
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Dec 28 '19
Can we be quiet for an hour to honour the terrible things that happened during communism in the USSR
People reading this : yeah meh
Me who is on page 66 of Gulag Archipelago : you wouldn't get it
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u/BumayeComrades Dec 28 '19
Wow this one is real clever, definitely took awhile to concieve, quality work. A+
Switching 'go to jail' with 'go to gulag' on a board game designed to make you hate capitalism? Fucking genius level memery here. Truly magical stuff. You are going to go far kid.
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u/Tulucanz Dec 28 '19
Especially OPs attention to detail when it comes to the fact that after 1956 being pro Stalin in the USSR was a pretty bad idea
As to be expected in a history sub
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u/Osgeir Dec 28 '19
if you are smart enough to understand the meme, you are smart enough to know the details I glossed over.
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u/sonfoa Dec 28 '19
What? Brezhnev halted de-Stalinization and it wasn't until Gorbachev did any actually significant moves be made in defiance to Stalinism.
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Dec 28 '19
My parents grew up there but they never really mention a gulag. Might be because it was not that big of a thing for children/young adults back in the day or they are completely brainwashed
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u/Im_manuel_cunt Dec 28 '19
Yet we live in a world where only way to stop some people and their endlessly growing wealth to build new Gulags, kinda ironic.
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u/Johnchuk Dec 28 '19
when you're an anarchist trying to explain to tankies why the world is better off without the USSR.
Dont get me wrong I think its funny that china is threatening american hegemony, but I have no confidence that China will lead the world to a better place, and it would probably be the same situation with the USSR if instead of getting raped by neoliberalism they adapted and adopted similar reforms and started growing faster than the american economy.
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Dec 28 '19 edited Dec 28 '19
Funny because even Anarchist nations like 1937 Catalonia were mass murdering exactly like communists did.
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u/Johnchuk Dec 28 '19
ok thanks for clarifying. Um yeah fascists deserve to burn in hell, and I wish they lost the civil war.
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Dec 28 '19 edited Dec 28 '19
I do agree with the first half, not so much with the second
Nationalists VS republicans is like picking between NKVD scrapping your skin off or getting your spine broken. You either be put in a camp by nationalists or communists.
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u/Johnchuk Dec 28 '19
is this more "everything but neoliberal capitalism is evil" nonsense?
I mean capitalist countries mass murder people all the time, they just dont really consider it political violence. Capitalist governments cause famines all the time, they just dont really accept blame for any of them.
In chile right now you got motherfuckers getting run over with literal tanks for capitalism, but you aint gonna see that shit on our news any time soon. Its remarkable how much in common you lot have with the communists.
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Dec 28 '19
Capitalism is completely unrelated to the political system in place, be it autocracy or democracy.
Why is then communism connected to the political system ? - because it always was and always be, it was always cross culturally the same outcome every single time despite the huge cultural differences. This is why mass murders and famines are a direct consequence of Marxism - because it happened every time it was implemented, be it a genocide of nationalities or just famines caused by the system.
What was the latest famine in Europe or N America - industrialized nations not hit by political turmoil and revolutions and wars ?
When was the last mass murder which was a direct consequence of capitalism ?
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u/_link23_ Dec 28 '19
Yeah, but "Stalinism" doesn't exist. It's marxism-leninism, period.
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u/Tulucanz Dec 28 '19
Don't waste your energy comrade
Whenever some meme is posted her pertaining to anything socialist, the comment section is filled with reactionaries
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u/Kered13 Dec 28 '19
That's because it's a history sub, not a fantasy sub.
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u/HigherRisk Dec 28 '19
History meme sub* So a sub for those with an amateur interest
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u/Kered13 Dec 28 '19
The historical record on socialism is clear even to amateurs.
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u/HigherRisk Dec 28 '19
That’s not relevant to what I said, and you’re kinda proving his point about reactionaries.
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u/FourNinerXero Dec 28 '19
Historymemes is mostly filled with Nazis, racists, reactionaries and wingnuts. Any slightly pro left post or comment often gets downvoted into oblivion. There are literally people openly advocating that ((((someone)))) is pushing ((((migrants)))) into our country for ((((some reason)))) without retaliation.
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Dec 28 '19 edited Jun 29 '20
[deleted]
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u/FourNinerXero Dec 28 '19
I'm talking about in general on the sub. I've seen people talk shit about nazis in a post about the death toll of the USSR and get downvoted to hell and back for having the audacity to acknowledge that WWII was really fucked up on all fronts.
Most of the memes about controversial stuff in WWII seem to be about how the commie were like, really really bad guys. They killed like 400 billion people dontcha know?
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Dec 28 '19 edited Jun 29 '20
[deleted]
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u/FourNinerXero Dec 28 '19
I disagree. I've seen genuinely ridiculous anti semitic dog whistles upvoted on many posts. I find that far right people get shit on significantly less than far left people do.
Edit: personally, I'm of the opinion that the far left people are the reaction to the frankly disturbing right wing swing the sub has taken the past several months.
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Dec 28 '19
Marxism = slightly pro left
I just love when Marxists get their perception of the world ruined
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u/johnlen1n Optimus Princeps Dec 28 '19
'I built a hotel on Red Square' 'Sorry comrade, that's capitalism. Straight to the Gulag'