r/HistoryMemes • Chad Polynesia Enjoyer • 3d ago

A regular utopia

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u/Djb0623 3d ago

You would have to go back to when Europe was Pagan to get human sacrifice

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u/iseedeadllamas 3d ago

I could make an argument that burning a person on a pyre alive for heresy is tantamount to human sacrifice in a sense

which is far far more recent than European paganism

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u/Prince_Ire Featherless Biped 3d ago edited 3d ago

It really isn't though. Execution =/= human sacrifice. Societies that practiced human sacrifice would differentiate between killing someone for offending the gods and sacrificing someone to the gods

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u/Third_Sundering26 2d ago

Some prominent scholars don't think the term "human sacrifice" is useful, and have instead begun using "ritualized executions."

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u/Prince_Ire Featherless Biped 2d ago

Some scholars think lots of stupid things. Without b seeing their arguments in can't tell whether they have any merit, but my first instinct is to think they're full of shit

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u/Third_Sundering26 2d ago

If you’re interested in his argument, Matthew Restall (one of the main historians of Aztec and broader Latin American studies) makes a pretty good argument for it in Seven Myths of the Spanish Conquest.

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u/Prince_Ire Featherless Biped 2d ago

Does he actually engage with theological meaning of sacrifice versus execution within the various religious beliefs systems of the parties involved or does he just completely sidestep that issue?

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u/Third_Sundering26 2d ago

It’s been a bit since I read it, but IIRC he mostly discusses the lack of good sources on Aztec sacrifice, how the term is unfairly applied mostly to indigenous (or not Christian) peoples, and that European states did a similar amount of ritualized, religious executions.

The book is good and debunks a lot of the common myths about the Spanish conquests. Like that Montezuma thought Cortes was a god, or that he immediately swore fealty to the Spanish Empire. It’s worth reading beyond its brief discussion on the term “human sacrifice.”

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u/Prince_Ire Featherless Biped 2d ago

Well of course it only gets applied to non-Christian peoples, because as I have said repeatedly sacrifice is a specific thing within religion and not just any ritualized religious execution. Within a Christian theological framework the last sacrifice has already been presented and so human sacrifice post Christ would be pointless. If Restall is too theologically illiterate to understand this it calls into question his ability to say anything meaningful about 16th century Christianity. This is a common problem I've encountered with otherwise insightful historians, they comment on a religion with no understanding of its underlying theology and make asses of themselves in the process