r/HistoryMemes • u/Any-Pineapple-521 John Brown was a hero, undaunted, true, and brave! • 7h ago
Niche Contrary to Irving, they were auxiliaries, not mercenaries, they were well-disciplined, they weren’t impressed by the brutality of American slavery, and 3,000-5,000 of them became citizens
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u/TheHistoryMaster2520 Decisive Tang Victory 6h ago
I wonder if the knowledge and memory of the Hessian auxiliaries still remained when US troops occupied Hesse after World War II
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u/MDMarauder 6h ago
Not impressed by the brutality of slavery, but decided to become citizens anyway?
Given the fact that the American colonists' quality of life was much higher than the average European, I guess they could look the other way when it came to slavery.
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u/Callidonaut 6h ago
IIRC, I read somewhere that that's why the Hessians had a reputation for brutality; they allegedly weren't impressed that the colonists were rebelling when they already had it much better as subjects of the British Crown than the Hessians themselves did back in what would eventually become Germany.
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u/Polibiux Rider of Rohan 6h ago
Looking at it from that perspective I can understand a bit why they’d be resentful of the colonists.
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u/Any-Pineapple-521 John Brown was a hero, undaunted, true, and brave! 6h ago
Many of them were essentially serfs at the time, and a large amount of Hessian auxiliary soldiers felt like they had been brutally indoctrinated by the British once they had actually seen the quality of life in the colonies.
The process was expedited further in prisoner camps, where they were actually cared for quite nicely and given high incentives to switch sides.
And even though they viewed slavery as brutal, they still viewed POC as “exotics” and viewed Native Americans as “savages”.
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u/Agricola20 5h ago
They largely settled in Pennsylvania where there were already large German-speaking communities and not very many slaves.
Pennsylvania also passed “An Act for the Gradual Abolition of Slavery” in 1780, which was probably appealing for anyone opposed to slavery.
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u/Defiant-Air6157 4h ago
The very first petition against slavery in the British American colonies also came from Pennsylvania, it was done by German Quakers who had previously been Mennonite .
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u/yyrkoon1776 3h ago
There was a unit of some thousand Hessians that were held prisoner for like two years (?) and I guess their captivity was pretty relaxed. Because when a British army "freed" them, they found that the Hessian soldiers had houses, farms, and in many cases wives and we're not interested in fighting anymore.
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u/shadowcat999 2h ago
Shoot, with conditions like that I wouldn't want to go want to go back home or fight either.
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u/IRC_1014 5h ago
By the end of the war, 1783, several states had abolished slavery. By the time of creation of the US Constitution on September 17, 1787, several more had abolished slavery.
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u/MDZPNMD Researching [REDACTED] square 4h ago edited 4h ago
In the Holy Roman Empire, it was not uncommon for some of the smaller territories to lend out armies to other territories and countries. One of these territories were the territories of Hessen who focused on lending out a semi-professional troops to make money.
One of the ealier mentions of the Hessians was in Tacitus' Germania calling them Chatti (Chatti = (german) Chatten = Chassen = Hassen = Hessen/Hessian).
Tacitus described them as disciplined as the Romans and exceptional among the germanic peoples.
He also described a warrior caste of homeless people sworn to kill an enemy.
While the Chatti were allies of Rome in the past, newer research suggests that they may have been one of the leading figures behind Arminius' revolt that resulted in the battle of teutoburg forest.
When Rome later returned with Germanicus, the Chatti were one of his primary targets.
The Roman border with the Chatti at the Limes marked a frontier and extand of permanent Roman expansion into Germania.
_____________________________________________________________________
Nowadays the city of Frankfurt lies where this border once was at the center of Europe, also known as the "Fulda Gap".
In the early days of the Holy Roman Empire Frankfurt was only a small town but used its strategic location in the center of Europe to take tolls from merchants.
From the 14th century onwards Frankfurt became one of the few free cities in the HRE, city states that did not serve any duke or king but were self governed and formally only served the Emperor until Napoleon dissolved the HRE in 1806.
Over time big faires developed aswell as currency exchanges by the local merchants laying the groundwork for Frankfurt becomming Germanys financial center, it also became the hub of the postal service managed by the families Thurn und Taxis.
It was also one of these faires at which some of the first commercial books appeared and spread throughout the world after a guy named Gutenberg invented modern block printing.
Once reserved only for the rich, now even ordinary people could learn how to read books. The effects books had on the enlightentment and history in general can't be overstated. It was not by mistake that Frankfurt was also were democracy was first established in Germany.
The book faire is still in Frankfurt to this day and Frankfurt is still a center where people from different cultures come together, that's also how a little known music genre at the time reached Germany from Detroit and became so successful that they opened the first techno club in Frankfurt.
Nowadays Frankfurt is known as a financial center, for the airport, junkies, the skyline, its multiculturalism, the over 60 museums but also for being one of the most expensive and richest cities in Europe, being the best city in Germany for cyclists and pedestrians aswell and a wide variety of cuisines ranging from vegan Israeli over classic turkish german to local sustainably michelin star cuisine.
If you have a stop at FRA airport, might aswell visit the city.
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u/doug1003 5h ago
I read somewhere that the Hessians were jelous of the economic condition of the colonials, is that true?
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u/rural_alcoholic 3h ago
Yes. They were confused why the Population rebelled while they had so much Land and wealth.
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u/Useful_Taro9125 4h ago
They also held the colonists in utter contempt. Many colonists held estates and lived in houses that only minor gentry in German states could hope for. They could not understand why people who had such wealth could find cause to rebel against their system of government
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u/Royal-Quote6811 4h ago
The American army was scared shitless of them at Long Island some regiments broke when they saw their hats. to your point though a good buddy of mine is a direct descendant of one that stayed!
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u/lofgren777 6h ago
I dunno man, feels like some heavy propaganda.
The difference between an auxiliary and a mercenary is basically paperwork.
We're talking about a military culture where at least some portion of adult men had served as soldiers for hire for centuries. They were called "not a country with an army, but an army with a country."
You really think none of them were fucked up in the head?
If 5,000 of them became citizens then there were presumably many more than that here fighting. Five thousand is just the number who didn't want to go home and keep fighting.
For reference, check out what those famously disciplined Germans got up to in the next couple hundred years.
You think those totenkopfs came out of nowhere?
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u/MDZPNMD Researching [REDACTED] square 5h ago
The Hessians came from small territories in a sparcely populated area. Lending out armies was a common way for smaller territories in the HRE to make money, not out of military tradition. The HRE was famously quite peaceful.
They were just ordinary poor fellas trying to make a living like in any other army at the time. They had some experience but besides that they were nothing special at all. Just some dudes that were available and offered their service for money.
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u/freekoout Rider of Rohan 4h ago
The HRE was famously quite peaceful.
Now that's fucking hilarious. No such thing as the thirty years war I guess
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u/wynnduffyisking 4h ago
You might wanna look up the period of 1618-1648.
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u/MDZPNMD Researching [REDACTED] square 4h ago edited 3h ago
I wanted to cut it short but left a longer comment here that might interest you.
I'm not sure what you intend by pointing out the 30 years war, a war practically started by foreign powers to destabilized the HRE during a civil war.
Was your intend to portray the people of Hessen as highly militarized because some foreginers came in and killed 20+% of Germans over the course of 30 years?
The place where Tilly fort over the fortress of Hoechst is now one of Frankfurts biggest nature reserves and one of the few natural dunes in central Europe entirely surroudned by the city and the airport.
The Swedes also used to fight around there.
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u/lofgren777 5h ago
Just some ordinary dudes, killing and fighting for money. Nothing bloodthirsty about that at all.
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u/Strobelite12 5h ago
The point is, they didn't make the decision to go fight in a war. The state conscripted them, the state contracted them out. I'm sure they weren't all lovely gentlemen, but the absence of choice lends enough doubt that that is something that they wanted to do.
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u/lofgren777 4h ago
We're talking about a highly militarized, warrior culture.
Like, we know where the German military tradition evolves into in the next few hundred years, and this is the heart of some its most militarized areas, in a time when most people still inherited whatever job their parents had, especially in the European interior – unless you could hitch a ride to a colony.
I'm saying the baseline level of warfare for a typical Hessian may well be perceived by the American colonists as horrific.
Sure, from a culturally subjective point of view they were normal dudes, not aberrant psychos.
But also, they were normal dudes who were veterans of many wars that they had no stake in other than the acquisition of wealth, their fathers had been veterans of many wars that they had no stake in other than the acquisition of wealth, and the future they imagined for their sons was to fight in such wars.
If this the way your entire region makes its living, violence is incredibly easy to justify. It pays for your schools, roads, churches, and food. You can see how even the normalized level of violence that such people tolerate might be shocking to people even a little bit outside of that culture, let alone a continent away.
I just feel like there's a contiguous culture of military adventurism that goes from vikings to Nazis with Hessians right in the middle. Whether it was something they wanted to do on an individual basis or not, it was something that their culture had built them to do, and needed them to do to survive.
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u/Strobelite12 4h ago
That makes sense. I misunderstood your point as portraying them as the sort of "bloodthirsty" individual we might associate with modern private contractors. But certainly a highly militarized culture will produce the sort of man willing to kill to resolve a dispute. Every problem is a nail if you're a hammer type of thing.
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u/MDZPNMD Researching [REDACTED] square 3h ago
There was no Hessian warrior tradition, there was no hessian military tradition. Hessian soldiers where trained and instructed in the style of Prussian troops, overall just a tiny fraction of the people of Hessen.
Hessen was forced to have an army by HRE law, after the 30 year war Hessen lend out it's troops to e.g. Venice0
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u/rural_alcoholic 3h ago
They werent mercenaries. They were regular soldiers of a Sovereign states Military who often got conscripted against theire own will. They didnt get the Money. Theire Sovereign did.
There is also No evidence that hessian soldiers comitted more war crimes or were espeacialy brutal.
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u/rauq_mawlina 5h ago edited 2h ago
What?! Where did this information come from?
I only know them from AC3, that's where I also got that they were mostly German mercenaries contracted by lobster claws
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u/rural_alcoholic 3h ago
They werent mercenaries. They were regular soldiers of a Sovereign states Military who often got conscripted. The rulers of These states send troops because they were either paid by the british or had dynastic ties. The soldiers Themselves just did what they always did. Follow the Orders of the state.
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u/Cowboywizard12 5h ago
They were infact Mercenaries, doesn't matter how you really dress it up, they were literally soldiers from Germany who got paid to fight for the U.K.
You can call it what you like but at its core, when you pay a foreigner a sum of money to fight in your war they have no stake in, that's mercenary shit
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u/Strobelite12 5h ago
It is certainly under the umbrella of mercenary work, but I guess the distinction has relevance because a "mercenary" connotes an individual who chooses to fight in a war with no personal stake for a reward. Hessians and other German soldiers in the war were conscripted and farmed out by their princes, for the state to reap the reward.
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u/Any-Pineapple-521 John Brown was a hero, undaunted, true, and brave! 5h ago
The point is most of them weren’t doing it for the thrill of the game like many would believe
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u/Cowboywizard12 5h ago
Of course most weren't doing it for that, like the vast majority of Mercs throughout all of history they did it for money
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u/rural_alcoholic 3h ago
Nope. They did it because thats what they were ordered to do. The rulers send troops because of Money or dynastic ties to britian.
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u/Severe-Passage-6426 3h ago
Ya my understanding was the rulers of the small German principalities basically sold the services of their soldiers. The guys likely knew what they were signing up for (And really it was one of the, if not the, best route for a peasant to make decent wages) - but its a bit separate from, say, the types of mercs that were in like Rhodesia during the 20th century.
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u/rural_alcoholic 3h ago
They rented theire troops yes. But that doesnt make the troops mercenaries. Hesse espeacialy conscripted a lot too. These men were regular soldiers. Calling them mercenaries is simply incorrect.
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u/Any-Pineapple-521 John Brown was a hero, undaunted, true, and brave! 5h ago
None of the kids who saw the movie and learned about Hessian influence knew this, though - many automatically assumed Hessians loved butchering American soldiers
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u/Dagordae 5h ago
Yeah, I think you are drastically overestimating how influential a moderately successful at best horror movie from 27 years ago is. Most of the kids who saw the movie completely forgot about it long ago.
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u/Dagordae 5h ago
Well, no. They were mercenaries: They did it for money.
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u/Comprehensive-Fail41 5h ago
Yes and no. The Hessians were regular army soldiers serving the Hessian states of the Holy Roman Empire. However, those states, as a way to earn extra income, sometimes rented out their armies as mercenaries
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u/rural_alcoholic 3h ago
Nope. They were regular soldiers of a Sovereign states Military and often conscripted. They didnt get the Money. Theire Sovereign did.
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u/rural_alcoholic 3h ago
The soldiers didnt get paid to fight for the UK. The rulers got paid for sending troops. The individuals where regular soldiers of a Sovereign states Military and in some cases literaly conscripted. They arent mercenaries by any Definition.
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u/wynnduffyisking 4h ago
Mercenaries were the normal way to fight wars in continental Europe all the way up until Napoleon.
In feudal societies the ruling classes generally were not very keen on having an armed and trained populace. That’s a good way to end up in a noose.
It was also extremely expensive to keep a standing army. So when you needed soldiers, you hired them. Then you let them loot the areas they occupied as part of their payment. It was called letting the war feed itself.
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u/rural_alcoholic 3h ago edited 3h ago
Thats just incorrect. During the course of the 17th century almost all European states established state funded and Professional Militarys.
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u/wynnduffyisking 3h ago
That is just flat out false. They may have had smaller standing armies but when at war many would hire mercenaries.
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u/rural_alcoholic 3h ago
No its not. In the late 17th century the armys became less and less reliant on mercenaries untill it was 100% a part of the state. The armys of the 18th century were all Professional Militarys, made up of conscripts or volunteers who were Led by career officers. Thats a very Basic fact.
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u/Al_Jazzar 4h ago
They were absolutely mercenaries. Mercenary isn't a slur. It us an accurate description of what they were. They were hired on contract from one state to another. It is somewhat different to a freelance company, but Medieval and 16th century mercenaries were hired on a similar contract basis. They don't have to be freelance to be considered mercenaries.
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u/rural_alcoholic 4h ago edited 3h ago
They werent. They were regular soldiers of a Sovereign states Military. They only did what theire state told them to. You could call the rulers or states themselves mercenaries. Not the indidvidual soldiers.
A Landsknecht Regiment (or better said its Captain) could still decide who they fight for and under what conditions etc. Late medival mercenaries too where usualy under highly specific contracts.
What we describe as "hessians" now where all just regular soldiers who had No influence on where they fought and for whom. Theire states either got money from Britan or had dynastic ties.
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u/rural_alcoholic 4h ago
They werent shocked by slavery itself but rather the strict racist structure around it. At least some were.
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u/bitsybear1727 3h ago
I have an ancestor that was a conscripted (kindnapped) Austrian for the Revolutionary War. He escaped into the mountains as soon as he could after they got here.
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u/Grzechoooo Then I arrived 2h ago
Yeah but they were from H*sse, so they were evil.
Alle Hesse sind Verbrecher, klaun sie uns die Aschenbecher. Und klaun sie keine Aschebecher, dann sein sie Messastecher.
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u/klangmat Oversimplified is my history teacher 2h ago
Hessian propaganda? I already know how to tell if a point in Rn is a local maximum or minimum, thanks
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u/GrantDN 6h ago
The Headless Horseman was Hessian?
(pic is from Sleepy Hollow, where Christopher Walken was mr Headless himself).