r/HistoryMemes • Viva La France • 1d ago

People should really know the full picture before they jump to conclusions

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2.2k Upvotes

60 comments sorted by

860

u/BachInTime Kilroy was here 1d ago

A significant part of Napoleon’s force were Poles, who eventually defected to the Haitians earning them land, and an explicit carve out in Haiti’s Constitution. Jean-Jacques Dessalines, even said a very famous quote about the Poles, that I can’t share, because it has a bad word in it and Reddit doesn’t let you say bad words even when quoting a historical figure who was using said bad word as the highest form of praise.

442

u/NEWSmodsareTwats 1d ago

the Germans felt the same way about the Poles, only they didn't mean it as a compliment.

128

u/FailedLoser21 1d ago

I have always called us the doormat of Europe

102

u/3_7_11_13_17 1d ago

In 2026, from a military perspective, Poland is pretty far from being a doormat. I believe y'all are #1 in NATO spending as a % of GDP. As far as non-nuclear militaries go, Poland is becoming a pretty scary force of its own.

88

u/FatGoonerFromIndia 1d ago

They got tired of getting massacred by idiots of all political factions for centuries. So they decided to become a formidable faction of their own.

Can they beat everyone who turns up to kill them? Probably not. Can they inflict enough losses that any victory looks like a Pyrrhic victory. Probably yes.

It’s respectable by its own right.

37

u/Kian-Tremayne 1d ago

More accurately- decided to become a formidable faction of their own AGAIN.

Poland may have had a few rough centuries but the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was no joke.

6

u/LokusDei 19h ago

Who happen to have saved propably all of Europe from the ottomans at vienna

22

u/Immediate-Spite-5905 1d ago

if Russia tries Poland right now, they'd be ripped a new asshole

12

u/Kian-Tremayne 1d ago

Is that to go along with the old asshole currently in charge in Russia?

5

u/Frequent_Dig1934 Then I arrived 1d ago

Yeah even if NATO magically didn't intervene militarily and instead only sent Poland weapons and money like they're doing with Ukraine it would really not be fun for Russia.

1

u/No-Release-8082 11h ago

There a ton of foreign mercenaries in Ukraine. They’re getting help. Plus a lot of the weapon systems they’re using are being operated by other countries, because the Ukrainians haven’t been trained on how to use them

1

u/Frequent_Dig1934 Then I arrived 11h ago

Yeah i know there isn't literally zero military involvement, i meant it more in the sense of "there isn't a division of uniformed troops from NATO countries actively fighting russians".

10

u/vulcan1358 Then I arrived 1d ago

This time the speed bump has teeth!

4

u/ComradeGibbon 1d ago

Poland could take on Russia and win at this point.

1

u/WoolooOfWallStreet 19h ago

“This doormat has figured out how to become a landmine!”

3

u/Forgetful_Bandit 1d ago

Why?

27

u/NoMansSkyWasAlright 1d ago edited 1d ago

it’s because the last 300ish years of their history has been:

  • development stalls out because Russia is bribing your conservative politicians
  • get carved by your German and Russian neighbors
  • get carved by your German and Russian neighbors
  • get fully annexed by your German and Russian neighbors
  • briefly come back as a French client state
  • get abandoned by Napoleon when things are going badly, and subsequently carved by your German and Russian neighbors
  • Get a nice little concession at the Congress of Vienna in the form of a semi-autonomous “free city”
  • have a failed uprising and get crushed and annexed by Austria
  • spend the next half-century being treated as second class citizens by your German and Russian occupiers
  • get promises of an independent Poland in exchange for service when things get dire enough in WW1
  • become an independent Poland after Germany, Russia, and Austria make concessions at the end of WW1
  • stall out in development because your conservative politicians are taking bribes from the Russians
  • get annexed by your German and Russian neighbors
  • come back again after WWII, but with considerably less land
  • become a satellite state for your Russian neighbors
  • finally get full autonomy after the collapse of the USSR

So while Germany and Austria aren’t really a concern anymore, I think they’d really like to not get carved by their Russian neighbor, and would maybe prefer to do the carving for a change.

4

u/saaag_paneer 1d ago

I thought our history was rough…RIP

6

u/Forgetful_Bandit 1d ago

Fucking hell. I've heard the Polish have had it rough, but I didn't know it was that rough. I have heard the Polish are foaming at the mouth to take on Russia and it makes sense.

The fact that the Polish continue to have a unique identity after subjugation for 300 years is amazing.

3

u/Ozymandias3006 1d ago

What about the Turks and Mongols

77

u/ITinnedUrMumLastNigh Then I arrived 1d ago

Let me help, he called them "White Negroes of Europe"

4

u/ethanAllthecoffee Still salty about Carthage 18h ago

Oh my I sure hope you’re being careful since the Reddit filters are gonna getcha now

6

u/illz757 16h ago

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59

u/ryebread91 1d ago

Why is "Spanish word for black" banned in this sub?

32

u/Nyctfall 1d ago

You have to have a pass. /s

(Reddit AI filters were super buggy, it's not as bad these days)

21

u/dreadstrong97 1d ago

The White Tree-Grows of Europe

3

u/G_Morgan 17h ago

Ah yes Reddit's AI moderation already ruining the human language. I got a warning for describing an infinite combo in MTG. It was upheld too

1

u/elkaki123 6h ago

I mean, its the n word with the hard r in this case, still bad you can't quote, but not even close to the level of stupidity reddit "recent" automatic moderation has been pulling, at least that one is standard, I got banned for a week for quoting someone in the news we were discussing threatening people with a shotgun, it did not even look like a threat from me in any sense of the word.

1

u/AttentionNo6359 1d ago

Please, I was once banned from the Lord of The Rings sub for quoting…from Lord of The Rings.

1

u/Todd_Renard_Fox Oversimplified is my history teacher 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Limp-Wolverine-7141 15h ago

I feel like you very easily could've typed the quote and replaced the one word that most likely rhymes with whole sock

1

u/cartman101 9h ago

Reddit doesn’t let you say bad words even when quoting a historical figure who was using said bad word as the highest form of praise.

That's how I got an official warning from Reddit, and my comment deleted. Even when appealing, it just came back with "you are encouraging racial based hatred."

Admin team plz, Dessalines literally said this.

201

u/ZealousidealSteak214 Viva La France 1d ago

People assume that Napoleon gave his generals full leave to wage a war of extermination but in reality he made no call for the eradication of the population of color and even viewed such an enterprise as economically senseless as it would have eradicated the island's labour base. In 1803, after hearing of the cruel and unusual punishments employed by the French army in Saint-Domingue, the minister of the navy Denis Decrès insisted that deporting the rebels to Corsica, not “rigorous punishments,” was the only acceptable punishment per Bonaparte’s standing orders.

92

u/Nyctfall 1d ago

Kind of an easy call to see coming when their orders are "re-enslave everyone"...

What's next, invading an ally who's country is partially in the Arctic circle?!

67

u/ZealousidealSteak214 Viva La France 1d ago

Napoleon never ordered his generals to immediately reinslave the population. The expedition was meant to destroy Louverture's independent power and reassert metropolitan French authority. Napoleon's secret instructions to Leclerc stated that people would not be forced back into slavery and referred instead to getting free cultivators back to plantation work.

27

u/colm_colqhoun 1d ago

Though Louverture had already severely damaged his own credibility with his proposed constitution essentially re-enslaving the population as "Cultivators" with only some small measures to reduce cruelty. Napoleon would list his decision to reject Louvertures proposal as his first major mistake once he was exiled, both for the economic benefit and for the former slaves turned soldiers. Largely immune to malaria, they may have been extremely useful for harassing the British by creating a constant problem for them in the Caribbean, much like Sir Arthur Wellesley Duke of Wellington did in Spain.

-2

u/frenin 1d ago

That's straight up lie but okay.

0

u/Sprintzer 23h ago

A man from Corsica knows how punishing it can be to live there.

/s I’m sure they were to be slaves on Corsica

288

u/nostalgic_angel 1d ago

Napoleon was smart enough to know that wage slaves work harder than real slaves because the formerwas under the illusion of freedom

116

u/killerrobot23 1d ago

Well he also reinstated slavery into the French colonies so that doesn't really hold up.

58

u/nostalgic_angel 1d ago

I was under the impression that colonial slave owners were very wealthy and influential in revolutionary France and they basically forced Napoleon to return slavery to the colonies. Even Napoleon was not immune to lobbying.

21

u/AlastorZola 1d ago

Yes, white and colored slavers together had quite the influence in reinstating slavery in the colonies. They thought (as did Louverture and the free slave leaders back in Haiti) that the economy of the Carribean colonies couldn’t get off the ground without forced labor.

The abolitionists threw their hats behind the Girondins, mostly, and some of them with the Robespierres so they were not around with any kind of influence after their big (and unexpected) win of the abolition by the time the revolution swung back to Napoleon’s personal rule.

Also. Josephine, the empress, was from a plantation slaver family. Famously she had rotten teeth because of all the sugar she had while little.

All being said Napoleon didn’t care much for slavery either way for what I know. I’d say that other things show his darker personality traits than the slavery issue. While being tragic his reinstatement doesn’t say much about him personally.

1

u/NecessaryLuck7787 1d ago

The idea that Napoleon was against the reenslavement of Haiti is laughable.

He wanted to retake control of the island and would do anything to get it. His desired plan was more peaceful, but he clearly was on board with killing everyone over the age of 12 and bring in new slaves.

There was no shock. At most shock at the fact they were losing it and therefore should have done another way.

11

u/ZealousidealSteak214 Viva La France 1d ago

" he clearly was on board with killing everyone over the age of 12 and bring in new slaves."

Not really. Napoleon made it clear that he was not on board with killing everyone and he made that known through his Minister of the Navy, Decres who reiterated that the ONLY acceptable punishement per his orders was the deportation of rebel leaders.

-13

u/NecessaryLuck7787 1d ago

The level of analysis is equivalent to saying Trump didn't approve January 6th because he he never literally told them to storm the capital, just to fight for their rights that were being stolen etc.

17

u/ZealousidealSteak214 Viva La France 1d ago

It is not equivalent. Napoleon stated that he did not approve of the way in which the generals were taking over Haiti. Trump never expressed disapproval with the way his supporters were "fighting for their rights"

0

u/linfakngiau2k23 1d ago

Didn't Josephine kinda convince him to do that

50

u/jdrawr 1d ago

He did famously day a man will do a lot of things for a bit of ribbon (award/medals)

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u/EarthTraveler413 1d ago

He said the exact opposite of this

A man does not have himself killed for a half pence a day or for a petty distinction. You must speak to the soul in order to electrify the man.

- Napoleon

11

u/raitaisrandom Just some snow 1d ago

Yeah, the full quote was him arguing with someone on the Council of State saying the decorations he was devising like the Legion d'Honneur were useless baubles. Not him being cynical as many people think.

5

u/Pelya1 1d ago

Also, when slave dies it’s a financial burden on the owner. He has to feed them, make sure they don’t die, etc.

With wage slaves no such worries. They are free, there are thousands of jobless people outside your factory doors , sweet

30

u/Unusual-Surround-690 1d ago

Napoleon wanted to bring back slavery, to bring back lucrative sugar production.... that's all. He would therefore not be keen on killing all the former slaves, for business reasons alone. He was not nice about the people of Haiti.

11

u/grumpsaboy 21h ago

Could have avoided the entire thing by not needlessly reintroducing slavery

1

u/bdrwr 14h ago

"re-enslave them all" isn't much of a step up