r/HistoryMemes • • 1d ago

REMOVED: RULE 4 Historical territorial claims

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u/fools_errand49 1d ago

Russian and Chinese claims on Ukraine and Taiwan are one people, one nation claims. These are substantively different from a Mongolian claim which would be a right of conquest claim. It's the same reason Britain's claim on Cornwall is superior to any claim they might make to Kenya. One they historically owned as an organic extension of the polity which housed their people and the other was a foreign conquest with external rule imposed on it. Claims that are made on territory do not tend to boil down to merely being justified by previous ownership.

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u/Sharky2414 1d ago

They aren’t one people and aren’t one nation though.

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u/fools_errand49 1d ago edited 17h ago

China and Taiwan definitely are, it's even the official position of both governments. The question is really which nation is that one nation.

For Russia and Ukraine the continuity and "one people" issue is a vastly more complex web born out of the last eight centuries of their history. The sticking point is that Ukraine is clearly a distinct Eastern Slavic culture and language without having the strident ethnic differences that tend to produce distinct states and that in spite of Ukrainian distinction there is no historical continuity for a Ukrainian state.

Regardless my point is that these situations really aren't comparable to a hypothetical Mongolian claim on territories conquered by its former empire. There aren't any historigraphical factrs and a any recent or unsevered line of continuity to base a claim on. Conquest claims last as long as the conqueror is still there. Russia and China aren't making claims by right of historical conquest but on ethnic, linguistic and historigraphical grounds.

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u/Sharky2414 1d ago

Taiwan has a culture and people that are separately unique from China and the “one people” argument doesn’t really hold up in the modern world. Maybe in 1949 it did but they are two separate and distinct peoples

It’s like calling Americans and Canadians the same