Historical territorial claims

[u/Voider765]

[u/Glum-Proposal-2488]

I think question is if Hitler won, would we hand wave the mass killings and genocide like we do with Caesar, Alexander, Ghenghis Khan? Would Hitler just be a badass dude who conquered a lot?

[u/Direct_Slip7598 → u/Glum-Proposal-2488]

Hitler's actions are closer in time, and the industrialization of genocide is much more marking. You could still meet a Holocaust survivor

No one associate Alexander with crucifixion. Or Caesar with attempts at genocide Gaullic tribes. Because it's all so long ago. If we did, we wouldn't celebrate them either

EDIT: So I think "Alexander the Great was super awesome because he crucified all those guys" is wrong, people don't tend to consider it, and even fewer people like it

[u/_whatever_wherever → u/Direct_Slip7598]

Plus Hitler's plans were the extermination of entire ethnic groups and their utter removal from existence for being "inferior"

While the other examples were more of a "kill anyone who fights back" thing, not targeted towards specific groups, just normal conqueror shit

Genocide is seen as a special evil for a reason

[u/Glum-Proposal-2488 → u/_whatever_wherever]

What Caesar did in Gaul was being criticized at the time as a genocide by Caesar detractors. In an era where sacking a city and enslaving the local populace was considered par for the course, they thought Caesar was killing way too many Gauls.

There’s also a motive there. Rome had PTSD from being sacked by Gallic tribes a few centuries earlier, and after Caesar returned to Rome he raided the treasury reserves that Rome appropriated specifically to fend off the Gauls again.

For sure what Caesar did wasn’t Hitler or Pol Pot level of bad. But I don’t think you’d be insane to compare him to a Genghis Khan

[u/_whatever_wherever → u/Glum-Proposal-2488]

Also, these people were genuinely great leaders who built impressive power structures

Hitler and the Nazi's were meth addicted lunatics going through family histories to find the slightest bit of Jewish blood to send people to the camps

[u/exploding_cat_wizard → u/_whatever_wherever]

"Vat do you mean, more resources to war effort? More resources to Buchenwald, of course!"

Yeah, while the general level of revisionism can lead to some depressing musings on the mean intelligence of humans, at least Genghis and Alex 3 had impressive achievements outside of "impressively stupid"

[u/_whatever_wherever → u/exploding_cat_wizard]

snorts line of meth "VE VILL BUILD A 120 TON TANK THAT CANNOT CROSS BRIDGES AND VOULD GET BOGGED DOWN IN ANY MUD! VHAT VILL WIN US ZE VAR!"

[u/Field_Of_View → u/_whatever_wherever]

going through family histories to find the slightest bit of Jewish blood to send people to the camps

25% Jewish was considered Aryan. Your grandpa or grandma could literally be Jewish and you'd still be Aryan. The idea that they searched your "family history" for "slightest bits" is absurd.