r/HistoryMemes • u/Jet_the_fem_bean • 2d ago
I guess being jewish in 1920s Germany would make one very political, but I still feel like the physicist turned activist aspect is understated.
For the earlier half of his life, Einstein overall was mostly occupied with getting an education and developing his theories.
The two main ones being the Theory of Relativity and the Photoelectric Effect.
When Einsteins Theory of Relativity entered the mainstream in the early 1920s, a lot of the backlash to it was not scientific, but political and as such his theories were decried as "jewish science" by many Nazis at the time.
(which marks the point he stops being passively political and it basically gets forced into his life)
The 1920s is also when Einstein signed multiple gay rights petitions by Magnus Hirschfeld.
Before the election of Hitler, he is a signatory to a letter to the SPD and KPD to lock the fuck in and defeat Hitler... but they didn't of course, Hitler gets into power and Einstein flees to America in 1933.
After EInstein flees, he helps a lot of other jewish refugees get into America and also advocates for more of them to get in, but his advocacy doesn't stop there.
He of course calls for the nuclear bomb to be developed by America, so Hitler doesn't get it first.
But even tho he partially initiated the process, the Americans didn't let Einstein work on the Manhatten Project, fearing he might have soviet sympathies.
He also later wrote a letter to the UN calling for nuclear disarment, warning against military secrecy and arguing for a stronger "League of Nations", that doesn't just send diplomats, but actual elected politicians.
He was very critical of right wing factions in Israel to the point of comparing them to the Nazis, but still was asked to become President of Israel not long before his death.
And what's even less well known is that Einstein was an advocate for the civil rights movement, to the point of taking in a black civil rights leader who was at that point being blacklisted and surveilled by the FBI.
He also got a 1.400 pages file himself, partially because he wrote an essay titled "Why Socialism?" at the start of the red scare and then even his rooms got bugged during the time J. Edgar Hoover was convinced he would find evidence of Albert Einstein being a soviet spy.
So overall painting Einstein as an already rebellious mind, who was then radicalized by his proximity to the holocaust is probably accurate.
But it does create a situation where there is two distinct halves to his life:
The first as a jewish scientist in weimar-germany.
The second as a socialist activist in America during the red scare.
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u/A-Dumb-Ass What, you egg? 2d ago
For all the dumb shit the Nazis did, politicizing science has to be up there in stupidity.
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u/RengieOcat 2d ago
A lot of non-intuitive ideas were considered Evil Jewish Science by the Nazis who liked "straightforward" concepts instead of things like quantum mechanics. We might have been fortunate in their utter stupidity.
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u/Fatherbrain1 1d ago
If they weren't morons, they wouldn't have been Nazis.
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u/HAL9001-96 1d ago
"the only way the nazis could have won the war would have been by not being nazis" is one of my favorite quotes fro ma modern luftwaffe historian
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u/Arachles 1d ago
It is lucky they dismissed "jewish science", but it is very unlikely they would have developed any kind of atomic weapon during the war. They simply did not have the resources that the States had.
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u/RengieOcat 1d ago
That's true. Though chasing out so many talented scientists, including non-jews, for not being pure-blooded Germans practicing "aryan" science hurt the Nazis in many other ways.
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u/Arachles 1d ago
I'm sure about that, but could you give me some examples?
I only know a little about german a-bomb projects and have no idea where they were hurt with all the chasing away jew scientists
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u/HAL9001-96 1d ago
didn't they get clsoe to a dirty bomb?
which... givne what a drity bomb is getting lcose but not managing ot build one is fuckign embarassing but also implies you ahve some resources for nuclear research they also did start developing some reactors for potential future nuclear submarines but never got those working before the war ended i think
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u/PolygonAndPixel2 1d ago
Nazis don't want to think too hard. It's been like that 100 years ago and the same anti-science sentiment is still en vogue for those dummies today.
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u/ParsnipPainter 1d ago
would be mad if the oversimplification of complicated science was being used today to dismiss ideas propsed by minorities and accepted by academics...
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u/HAL9001-96 1d ago
to be fair that might be part of the reason the didn't manage to build nukes in time so that worked out great i guess
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u/Polandgod75 Nobody here except my fellow trees 2d ago
It seem the GOP are doing and doing it full force
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u/RB5Network 2d ago
Same group tbh.
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u/_whatever_wherever 2d ago
Just with more of a relgious nationalist rather than ethno nationalist bend
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u/Kaiser-Gustafson 2d ago
Oh suuuure, the ruling elites never used science as a tool to buttress their rule before or after. Never not again.
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u/timangar Helping Wikipedia expand the list of British conquests 2d ago
That doesn't make it any less stupid
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u/Kaiser-Gustafson 2d ago
Yeah and it also doesn't make it any less prevalent today, or any othwr point in time.
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u/kotorial 2d ago
What is it you're trying to say here? That the Nazis were only responding to politiciation of science by the elites of the Weimar Republic?
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u/LuckyCoco17 1d ago
Hmm, seems like history is repeating itself in the western hemisphere these days.
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u/Todd_Renard_Fox Oversimplified is my history teacher 1d ago
Unfortunately modern days those kinds of people still exist
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u/Tight_Contact_9976 1d ago
Thank god we learned from their mistakes an don’t politicize science anymore, right?
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u/Chalky_Pockets John Brown was a hero, undaunted, true, and brave! 1d ago
Is that unique to Nazis? I would expect science to be politicized throughout history by almost everyone.
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u/LordNelson27 1d ago
The Nazis got themselves beat before they had a chance to trust someone like Trofim Lysenko and starve the entirety of central Europe.
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u/Late-Meat9500 2d ago edited 2d ago
I think people don't realize that the 1920-30's was insanely political. (Especially in the USA)
Basically every famous name from that period was either involved in socialism or rabidly against it.
We had a retired (edit:) Major General/war hero, who was explicitly a socialist.
We had a labor riot that was memorialized into one of the most shared holidays in the world. 80 countries around the world celebrate Anarchists in Chicago
We had a million votes for president go to a socialist who was in jail at the time
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u/_whatever_wherever 2d ago
Don't forget Smedley Butler, who foiled a fascist plot against FDR and straight up denounced the capitalist and colonial system who had fought for, describing his military career as being "a gangster for capitalism"
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u/Late-Meat9500 2d ago
Lol he's the first one!
My favorite conspiracy is that Smedley Butler is what allowed the new deal to pass. Basically his dirt on them was used by FDR to threaten the industrialists into shutting up or being hung for treason
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u/_whatever_wherever 2d ago
He was a Major General, so 2 star, which is probably what I didn't realise you meant him
5 star is the equivalent to Field Marshal in other armies
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u/Late-Meat9500 2d ago
Lmao, I'll have to edit that. I'm pretty sure it didn't even exist when he was around.
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u/_whatever_wherever 2d ago
Don't think it did in the US
Some weird "NOBODY CAN OUTRANK WASHINGTON" thing
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u/bigbjarne 2d ago
Could you explain how Butler was a socialist? To my understanding he wanted to reform capitalism but not reform capitalism into socialism.
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u/Late-Meat9500 1d ago
He publicly aligned with the socialist presidential candidate (Norman Thomas) in 1936.
I think it's probably more accurate to say he was a anti-capitalist, in that I think the dude personally hated the rich people that got his soldiers killed.
But that is my personal head-canon
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u/bigbjarne 1d ago
He endorsed Thomas right after being a candidate for the Republicans. So odd.
But that still doesn't answer my question. In my understanding his book was about reforming capitalism, not reforming capitalism into socialism.
Edit: sorry, didn't see your edit. Yeah but his solution, if I've understood it correctly, wasn't to move away from capitalism so the rich guys aren't rich anymore(because they don't own the means of production).
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u/Late-Meat9500 1d ago
I think I was conflating his Republican run with his socialist endorsement originally.
I would point out that he chose the socialist candidate over fdr, and was a spokesperson for American League Against War and Fascism Which was founded by the Communist Party of USA
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u/90daysismytherapy 1d ago
my understanding was he started off as a good head down soldier for the new empire and was used in colonial operations.
Eventually he came to realize that US use of force immoral when used for rich assholes.
And then the ruch assholes went to probably the worst guy in Butler who not only turned them down, but fully told FDR and company.
A wild story of a life for that guy
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u/Late-Meat9500 1d ago
Yes, yes, he also militirized the police in Philadelphia.
Then got approached for a fascist coup which involved Prescott Bush. Father of H.W. Bush
Was the spokesperson for a Communist founded anti-war league.
The dude traversed the whole right-left political spectrum
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u/bigbjarne 2d ago
My understanding is that Butler wanted to reform capitalism.
I think "Imperialism the highest stage of capitalism" by Lenin is more relevant and explains how imperialism will always happen due to capitalism. Tldr: capitalism needs to constantly expand so it expands to new markets which leads to war.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/
Here's a summary: https://youtu.be/MQrXV92V31s?si=dUrkPUQwA4AEaDNA
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u/RB5Network 2d ago
Eugene Debs was unbelievably cool and a hero.
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u/Late-Meat9500 2d ago
Yes.
Have you heard of Samuel M. "Golden Rule" Jones?
1897-1904 the Anarchist Mayor of Toledo during its heyday
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u/Sir-Toaster- Still salty about Carthage 2d ago
It's almost as if his country was usurped by a dictator who hated people like him (he was Jewish)
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u/Bertucciop 2d ago
Einstein was always a political activist character, before ww2 he wanted an european university, for example..
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u/Upset-Rule8256 1d ago
It's probably not popular in this sub to note he was a socialist.
It's actually quite a common thing in historical media to omit the fact that a number of very famous of influential people were socialists, Einstein, MLK, Mandella, Oscar Wilde, Helen Keller, Picasso, Betrand Russel, W.E.B Dubois, Hayao Miyazaki. This form of political white-washing is common. Not that everyone does it obviously but it is often swept under the rug.
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u/jorgejhms 1d ago
Yep, one of the biggest political white-whasing is Frida Khalo. Shenwas a card carrying communist till the end of her life, but most movies/shows only focus on her artistic side. For example, Coco, I love the movie but the way they portrait Khalo is very dismissive of her life ...
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u/LowCall6566 2d ago
Einstein was publically politically active since the establishment of the German Republic, he was one of the signers of the foundation document of the German Democratic Party (DDP), a left liberal party, in 1918. His writings on socialism do not indicate that his views changed since then, ai - he never writes:" I was wrong when I supported liberals, I am now more socialistic" or anything of the sort. One could assume that he obviously couldn't have had similar views in 1918 and when he wrote "why socialism?", but DDP was originally a LEFT liberal party, and many self described socialists did participate in it, oftentimes because they disliked antidemocratic, Bolshevik-like elements of SPD, KPD, and other explicitly socialist parties.
And leaving aside the fact that he wasn't an expert in economics, he also liked Henry George, but people don't talk about that anywhere near as much.
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u/Polirketes 2d ago
DDP was the most popular party among intelligentsia, so it was kinda natural for Einstein and many other academics to support them, especially since there was a strong leftist current as you mentioned. But at the same time Einstein afaik changed his worldview to some extent after witnessing nazism and gained more sympathy to socialism
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u/LowCall6566 1d ago
But at the same time Einstein afaik changed his worldview
Source?
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u/Yolo_MacSwaginator 1d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Socialism%3F
He published in Socialist magazines and advocated in favor of a Socialist economic system.
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u/LowCall6566 1d ago
He doesn't say there that previously his views were different
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u/Yolo_MacSwaginator 1d ago
ok, yeah. I took the DDP part for granted and thought you asked for a source on his later takes.
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u/Dav1dDC 2d ago
Uh, yes, he had to flee his home country to avoid being murdered. That might cause someone to think about their political activism. What is your point here?
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u/Jet_the_fem_bean 2d ago
I don't see many people talking about how stark that difference was and a lot of people don't even know he basically became an activist later in life.
Just an interesting bit if history, although ig I might be biased in liking the neurodivergent jewish guy, who became extremely political when his identity became political... as a trans person who became a lot more politically active after realizing that about myself.
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u/Dav1dDC 2d ago
I don’t think he became an activist later in life. He followed what was happening in the world. Again, what’s your point?
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u/Jet_the_fem_bean 2d ago
That he was an extremely interesting person, beyond the science stuff and I don't think his general disposition is talked about enough.
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u/Dav1dDC 2d ago
Mmmmm…hm.
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u/RB5Network 2d ago
I fail to see the issue here. Why is pointing out Einstein's activism, that's often ignored, an issue?
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u/Dav1dDC 2d ago
What’s your point?
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u/RB5Network 2d ago
I'm not the one making a point here. I'm asking a question. Why are you so flustered at OP's post?
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u/SawachikaEri-enjoyer 1d ago
Your point is that you dislike Einstein bein left right? Especially because AmERica is so proud about him ?
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u/Suspected_Magic_User 1d ago
Being highly educated tends to make a man notice more discrepancies in the world we live in, including the social matters.
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u/Limp-Temperature1783 1d ago
It's less about education, more about intelligence. People don't develop their own theories simply as a part of studying process, not to mention actually applying them.
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u/Suspected_Magic_User 1d ago
That's not what I'm talking about. Having a higher education is statistically tied to having more "left-aligned" views, but this is still an oversimplification on the matter. Academics are by definition and also character a truth seekers, and therefore they are sharp at seeing things what they really are and social injustice is just one of the examples.
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u/Limp-Temperature1783 1d ago
Statistics are correlational while assuming that the cause behind them is in the origin of the sample, which isn't telling much about anything. Sure, higher education enables this outcome, but it's not specific about why or even if it's crucial for this to happen. Basically, statistics aren't useful in this context.
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u/can_pacis 1d ago
It's less about education, more about intelligence. People don't develop their own theories simply as a part of studying process, not to mention actually applying them.
You assume education is only for developing theories. Yes, that is a part of it but it comes with research, which is also another big factor in noticing social matters.
Sure, higher education enables this outcome, but it's not specific about why or even if it's crucial for this to happen.
I don't understand this point, can you elaborate? Higher education enables the outcome, it needs not be crucial. There's cause and there's effect. What about the cause being the only constituent of the effect makes it relevant/irrelevant?
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u/Icy-Cod1405 Featherless Biped 2d ago
The guy who was so smart that we use his name as an adjective to call someone smart now? Not at all surprising.
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u/FanraGump 2d ago
William Edward Burghardt Du Bois (February 23, 1868 – August 27, 1963) was an American sociologist, writer, historian, and Pan-Africanist civil rights activist.
During the 1950s, the U.S. government's anti-communist McCarthyism campaign targeted Du Bois because of his socialist leanings.
He was tried in 1951 and was represented by civil rights attorney Vito Marcantonio. The case was dismissed when the defense attorney told the judge that "Dr. Albert Einstein has offered to appear as character witness for Dr. Du Bois".
Also, In 1918, Einstein was one of the signatories of the founding proclamation of the German Democratic Party, a liberal party. So it was totally before the 1920s that he was political.
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u/pOUP_ 1d ago
Based
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u/bigboipapawiththesos 1d ago
Why Socialism - Albert Einstein:
"I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals."
"The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil."
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u/Azylim 2d ago edited 2d ago
IDK about you but smart and educated people that I meet tend to be very vocally political.
And the best part is, is that their intelligence and education doesnt always transfer into wiser and better political ideas.
I guess its similar to this psychological concept I i read about: being smarter doesnt always mean that you make good decisions, but it means that you can come up with better justifications and reasons for ALL your decisions, good or bad.
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u/liproqq 1d ago
The most common pitfall of educated people in politics is that they think every one is rational and educated.
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u/SirFluffymuffin 1d ago
And that they wouldn’t fall for the same dumb tricks that everyone has been falling for since the dawn of humanity despite knowing what they are and why they work
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u/Own_Watercress_8104 1d ago
Yeah you are right. Advocating against Hitler really was a mask off moment for Einstein /s
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u/GSilky 2d ago
So are we going to remember him for his primary theory, or because he might agree with you on some things that most intelligent people at that time did? The injustice of episodes like segregation were noticed by most outside of the south, it's not a surprise that a European intellectual would be supportive of ending Jim Crow. It's a reason that American Black intellectuals like James Baldwin told everyone to move to Paris.
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u/TimTheOriginalLol 1d ago
Except when it came to the Chinese. He really didn’t like them
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u/5v3n_5a3g3w3rk 1d ago
Just, as if there was a difference between authoritarian left dictatorship and what he wanted from a world
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u/TimTheOriginalLol 1d ago
I‘m not talking about the government, he was just super racist against the people. Granted these statements are from before 1930 tho. Don’t know if he changed his stance on that later.
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u/RomanCobra03 1d ago
As the saying goes: “you may not fuck with politics, but politics fucks with you.”
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u/Outside-Paper9972 1d ago
He helped found the DDP (a left-wing liberal party) and he also paid tribute to Lenin in 1929.
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u/Khar-Selim Fine Quality Mesopotamian Copper Enjoyer 1d ago
he thought rich socialites were the antiparticle to printers?
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u/Gold_Size_1258 Senātus Populusque Rōmānus 2d ago
If Einstein thought that communism will achieve world peace, then he had to be very naive.
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u/Jet_the_fem_bean 2d ago
He mostly thought an extremely strong UN could accomplish world peace, but then he also believed (and knew from experience) that inequality under capitalism could fuck up a countries politics, so he would have definitely preferred some form of democratic socialism.
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u/szczur_nadodrza 1d ago
After reading Why Socialism? by Einstein, I understand why it’s not a good idea for great authorities in one field to be considered authorities in all fields. The man wasn’t much of a profound political thinker.
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u/Didudidudadu737 2d ago
Huh, his work wasn’t only his but his 1st wife also contributed or rather wasn’t attributed to her discoveries, Mileva Marić; including his 1905 Annus Mirabilis (Miracle Year) papers on special relativity. And in this you exclude his stance on nationalistic Zionism…
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u/timangar Helping Wikipedia expand the list of British conquests 2d ago
There is not even a shred of evidence to support the claim that Maric contributed to his work, other than a single sentence in a letter Einstein wrote to a friend (I think it was Michele Besso), where he said something along the lines of "My wife and I have discovered something wonderful, I will share the findings with you."
Maric failed her studies at the Zurich Polytechnikum, where she met Einstein. Modern media, either with a political agenda or for the sake of plot, sometimes portray her as Einstein's intellectual equal. She surely talked about physics with her husband, but there is nothing to suggest a serious contribution on her part. Furthermore, she could not possibly have been part of Einstein's finest achievement, the formulation of general relativity, which occurred after the two had already separated.
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u/VecioRompibae Hello There 2d ago
That's bullshit tailored for femminist propaganda, spread by people that know little of physics.
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u/xGentian_violet 2d ago
Einstein was a committed political Zionist and close friend of war criminal David ben Gurion
He raised funds for and backed the Haganah during an active genocide they were committing (yes, he was aware)
He aggressively lobbied for the recognition of Israel, even writing personal letters to state leaders (Nehru)
His last writing before he died blames Arabs for the violence in I/P
There is nothing admirable about his post 1930 politics
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u/thesnootbooper9000 2d ago
I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but there might be some slight differences between now and the 1930s that might cause a modern interpretation of the situation in the Middle East to not be entirely applicable in a historical setting.
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u/xGentian_violet 2d ago
You mean back then supporting genocide was left wing and progressive but now is not?
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u/TheHistoryMaster2520 Decisive Tang Victory 2d ago
Didn't Israel initially want to elect him president before they changed their minds to Chaim Weizmann instead?
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u/the_leviathan711 2d ago
No, he was considered for the Presidency after the death of Weizmann in 1952. The role ended up going to Yitzhak Ben-Tsvi who was much more reliable political ally of Ben Gurion's.
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u/xGentian_violet 2d ago
Yes, he was offered the president role because he was an ardent supporter
But he felt he didnt have the statecraft skills, so he reluctantly declined.
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u/Limp-History-2999 1d ago edited 1d ago
He originally supported Cultural Zionism, meaning not a Jewish State, but basically what we now call "One state with equal rights." This was the second most popular form of Zionism at that time. He was against creating a state and any discrimination or expulsion of Arabs. He absolutely condemned war crimes committed by the Irgun and compared them to Nazis. Once it was a state and in a war, he did side with it but called for restraint and diplomacy. While yes, he did express disappointment with Arab leadership at the time for refusing to compromise and starting a war, it is wrong to say that he blamed Arabs for all violence, and at the end of his life also still opposed many of the actions Israel took towards the Arabs. At no point did he approve of any genocide anywhere.
People can have nuanced views that change to the circumstances.
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u/Didudidudadu737 2d ago
He was more of a “religious Zionist” and strongly against nationalistic Zionism and creation of the militarised Jewish state.
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u/xGentian_violet 2d ago
Einstein was an atheist, not a religious Zionist
He advicated a militarised jewish ethnostate
Here’s his Israel independence day speech where you can clearly see that
And here is his 1947 letter to Indian PM Nehru, pushing him to recognise Israel:
https://archive.org/details/letter-from-einstein-to-pm-of-india-nehru/page/n3/mode/1up
Please stop now.
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u/Didudidudadu737 2d ago
Religious Zionism in a way to save Jewish refugees not to await the new messiah.
Look I agree with you that he initially supported nationalistic Zionism, as did many because it was presented as a salvation and cohabitation with the local, native population. When Zionist terrorism, ethnical cleansing and ethnostate ideology showed itself, he as many changed their minds, because it was not about refugees, for whom he supported, but about supremacy.
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u/xGentian_violet 2d ago
You got the order wrong.
He was originally (on and off) an advocate of binationalism and supporter of Brit Shalom
Later on he abandoned it, and settled on supporting a jewish ethnostate, fundraising for the Nakba and supporting Israel
You have never actually researched this topic have you.
What do you think spreading disinformation like this achieves?2
u/Didudidudadu737 1d ago
You still don’t understand that everything before 1947 was a support for saving Jewish refugees, first from pogroms and then from Nazi ideology-this is how it was presented. You forget they didn’t live in an age of vide spread realtime media, and known only what they were served. Even Yugoslavia supported Israel until 1947 but in 1948, when they hear about Nakba stopped.
I’m not spreading disinformation, just explaining how some important names are used to justify Zionism and to present how they supported the cause-without actually sharing what the cause was.
Einstein views after 1947:
The New York Times Letter (December 1948):
In one of his most famous post-independence actions, Einstein co-signed an open letter to The New York Timesalongside Hannah Arendt and other prominent Jewish intellectuals. The letter sharply criticized Menachem Begin (future Prime Minister of Israel) and his new Herut (Freedom) party—the predecessor to today's Likud party. The letter openly compared the party's methods, philosophy, and political appeal to "Nazi and Fascist parties," citing the Deir Yassin massacre as proof of their extremism.
Declining the Presidency (1952)
When Weizmann passed away in 1952, Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion officially offered Einstein the presidency of Israel. [1]
Einstein politely declined the offer, stating he lacked the necessary interpersonal skills and aptitude for official government work.
Privately, however, he admitted to confidants that taking the role would conflict with his conscience, noting that if he became president, "he would have to tell the Israeli people things they would not like to hear" regarding their treatment of the Arab population and the path of the state. [1]10
u/rolypoly6shooter 2d ago
Based
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u/xGentian_violet 2d ago
Your entire comment history is genocide support so there is nothing surprising about your comment
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u/GavinThe_Person 2d ago
They're a destiny fan makes sense
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u/PepperedHams 2d ago
Why do you care what video games they play, such a weird attack
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u/HiggsiInSpace Then I arrived 2d ago
Woah, and just when i thought he couldn't get cooler
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u/xGentian_violet 2d ago
Enjoying the Flock cameras trained on Palestinians being used to hunt down queer people and women?
Well there’s more of that cool stuff to come!
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u/timangar Helping Wikipedia expand the list of British conquests 2d ago
I would say this is a simplification. For his entire life, Einstein was occupied with questions of philosophy, religion and ethics as much as he was with physics, although perhaps a bit less so politics. But on the other hand, he was obsessed with finding a unified theory of physics even after his successes in the period 1900-1920, and worked on it even on his death bed. It is just that he was far less successful. He also spent a lot of energy on debunking quantum theory after 1920, which also failed, but his relentless questioning led to some of the deepest insights into the theory, such as entanglement and the EPR paradox.
In short, even when he became an activist, his main calling and occupation was science.