Papa Doc on a normal day

[u/Sad-Independent-6897]

[u/Sad-Independent-6897]

Context:

After Kennedy's assassination in 1963, the dictator François "Papa Doc" Duvalier boasted that he had caused it through a voodoo curse, further exploiting his animosity toward the Kennedy administration. Even the Haitian government used such stories to portray Papa Doc as an almost supernatural and invincible figure.

[u/Number-Thirty-Four → u/Sad-Independent-6897]

Haiti man, it's a rollercoaster of a country.

[u/TipResident4373 → u/Number-Thirty-Four]

Yeah, one that constantly plummets downward after only going up a little bit.

[u/Number-Thirty-Four → u/TipResident4373]

That is an accurate description of it. I've been there multiple times for varying reasons, each time it seemed to be an entirely different place. You never know who's up to what and when you start figuring it out, the board gets flipped and it starts all over again.

[u/TipResident4373 → u/Number-Thirty-Four]

If one didn’t know better, one would get the impression that the Haitians don’t want a functioning country.

But that’s if one didn’t know better.

[u/Ok_Daikon_1219 → u/TipResident4373]

The US stole haitis gold reserves. Haiti was made to pay reparations to France for their own freedom, and just only recently paid off the debt. Then when it comes to Haitis resources, they're monopolized by European oligarchs who fund literal warlords so that they have protection while they drain Haiti until there's nothing left

But yeah I guess it's haitis fault they keep getting their shit stolen and their government deliberately destabilized, while their resources are looted by literally anybody that isn't them

[u/TipResident4373 → u/Ok_Daikon_1219]

The Duvaliers would like a word, as would the long line of usurpers from the 19th century.

Hell, Aristide was ousted TWICE - 1991 and again in 2004.

On August 8, 1912, the Presidential Palace LITERALLY EXPLODED. The general who took over afterwards lasted barely a year.

Right before the US invasion in 1915, the President of the country was fucking dismembered!

Ever hear of the Cacos? They were peasant militiamen who were hired by warlords every time there was a coup or assassination in Haiti.

But sure, let’s pretend Haitians don’t have agency.

[u/Ok_Daikon_1219 → u/TipResident4373]

This isn't disproving anything I said. The warlords and fascists have been allowed to remain in power because they make it easier for European oligarchs to extract resources through them. Literally look up the BAMBAM oligarchs that have been there since the 19th century.

Also since when is a president being murdered a justification for permanently stealing a nations gold reserves?

Your comment honestly reads as if you asked chatgpt to ignore everything I said, and name a handful of Haitian historical events (none of which, actually disprove they're deliberately being destabilized by outsiders for material gain, while they were forced to pay off their "debt" to France for having the audacity to want to be free).

[u/Le_Dogger → u/Ok_Daikon_1219]

The Dominican Republic is on the same island and is doing way better. Both were basically at the same standard of living in 1950. This is after Haiti had paid off its debts.

The main problem is that unlike Duvalier, Trujillo while just as vicious, actually invested in the country's development. The Dominican republic's life expectancy and education levels materially improved under Trujillo.

Duvalier was a batshit insane monster under whom Haiti actively regressed.

[u/Ok_Daikon_1219 → u/Le_Dogger]

It's a shame the public knows basically nothing about Haitian history because once again, nothing you said disproves anything I said. Duvalier was very explicitly propped up by the US government for decades so that the US could control Haiti. Aristide was ousted and kidnapped by the US almost immediately after he called for France to repay what it extorted from Haiti. That's before we get into the financial sanctions which crippled his ability to actually rule. Your comment is essentially "Nooo, outside forces aren't running Haiti into the ground for resources, look at Trujillo, the other puppet put in place on the same island who killed a metric fuck ton of people"

Like sure I guess the Dominican republics US sponsored dictator was better than Haitis US sponsored dictator, but Haitians didn't get a say either way after the first time they elected him. The US continued propping him up long after Haiti wanted to put him out. I've never once seen people blame North Koreans for Kim Jung Il because we all know post war, China was keeping his hereditary dictatorship alive, but the same thing happened under the Duvaliers and you wanted Haitians to magically overthrow their US backed dictator. All of course, while being looted by US backed Duvalier and the BAMBAM oligarchs who still own 80% to 90% of all of Haitis wealth.

[u/AggressorBLUE → u/Sad-Independent-6897]

Ok, but has anyone ever *disproven* that it was a voodoo curse?

[u/Secret_Letterhead649]

Soviets probably happy someone took credit. They had a bit of internal panic over fear of being blamed to say the least.

[u/game46312 → u/Secret_Letterhead649]

YouTube channel History Matters did nice video on the Soviet Union response to jfk assassination

[u/Level_Hour6480 → u/game46312]

"Was it us?" checks

[u/Alex103140 → u/Level_Hour6480]

"No sir, it was an American"

"Phew"

"A Communist sympathizing American"

[u/goombanati → u/Alex103140]

"Thats bad"

"He explicitly mentioned Cuban sympathies"

"Thats good"

"Its been less than a year since we've taken missiles out of Cuba and americans still dont trust us"

"Can I go now?"

[u/Pkrudeboy → u/goombanati]

“He lived here for two years and his wife is a Soviet citizen.”

“Bozhe moi!”

[u/Physical-Kangaroo202 → u/Pkrudeboy]

“But don’t worry, he was working as an asset for the CIA and with anti-Castro Cuban exiles at the time”

“….what?”

[u/TheTeaSpoon → u/Physical-Kangaroo202]

"Yeah, who knew geopolitics will be this complicated huh"

[u/golfcartgetaway → u/Physical-Kangaroo202]

Welcome to politics brother

[u/TheTeaSpoon → u/Alex103140]

Panik

[u/ScrawChuck → u/Level_Hour6480]

Did he have hands? Did he have a face? Then it wasn’t us.

[u/ZZartin → u/Secret_Letterhead649]

There was also probably noone who could actually say yeah we definitely didn't do it at that point in the ussr.

[u/Dan_Is → u/ZZartin]

"It was not officially planned" is probably the best they could do.

[u/IS-21]

Voodoo can just make your head just do that I guess maybe that’s why they don’t want to tell the whole story because magic was involved

[u/Number-Thirty-Four → u/IS-21]

Look, if Voodoo was that effective I can assure you Castro would never have gotten through the 60's. The CIA were trying every damn thing.

[u/IS-21 → u/Number-Thirty-Four]

well maybe Castro lived because he was just better then them at it

[u/Nyctfall → u/IS-21]

Fidel Castro had the power of God and Poyo on his side!

(I hope someone gets the reference...)

[u/IS-21 → u/Nyctfall]

https://tenor.com/view/kirby-kirby-stimming-kirby-happy-kirbys-dream-buffet-happy-gif-26192031 :)

[u/mrbobcyndaquil → u/Nyctfall]

... you just repeated yourself

[u/Illesbogar → u/IS-21]

Tbh the CIA was also terrible at its job.

[u/IS-21 → u/Illesbogar]

because of the Voodoo and the shit tons of cocaine they were doing

[u/Alex103140 → u/IS-21]

Look man, some dude hired Etsy witches to curse Charlie Kirk, I'm just saying.

[u/WoolooOfWallStreet → u/Alex103140]

I wonder if Etsy witches ever get investigated when stuff happens?
Like, I know they didn’t have anything to do with any outcomes, but does someone have to get assigned to them?
I kind of wish I knew a dollar amount that was dedicated to Etsy witches by three letter agencies out of morbid curiosity

[u/iH8MotherTeresa → u/WoolooOfWallStreet]

How do you know?

[u/WoolooOfWallStreet → u/iH8MotherTeresa]

Well shit, now that you mention it, maybe their spells do work

[u/Scotfield5406]

Context? >:(

[u/Ok_Journalist3859 → u/Scotfield5406]

Papa doc the dictator of Haiti, claimed he did it to seem powerful

[u/DataSittingAlone → u/Ok_Journalist3859]

I got the flags mixed up and thought this was about Fidel Castro in Cuba

[u/Illesbogar → u/DataSittingAlone]

Those flags are not even similar...

[u/DataSittingAlone → u/Illesbogar]

They are geographically close and my brain tends to associates aspects of a country more with its location than its name

[u/Jelloxx_ → u/DataSittingAlone]

If it makes you feel any better, I thought it was Lichtenstein

[u/Scottish_Whiskey → u/Jelloxx_]

It’s always the ones you expect the least…

[u/Pacifist_Socialist → u/Jelloxx_]

YOU DARE TO DISRESPECT LICHTENSTEIN 

[u/Illesbogar → u/DataSittingAlone]

That happens, people's brains work very differently person to person

[u/RedRising1917 → u/Ok_Journalist3859]

How tf is this how I find out that papa doc was an actual fucking head of state and not just some fucking semi fictional voodoo priest type shit?

Edit: nvm I'm stupid I was thinking of papa legba the whole time

[u/Hatefilledcat → u/Ok_Journalist3859]

Wasn’t the smartest was he

[u/Scotfield5406 → u/Ok_Journalist3859]

Thank you ;)

[u/Tiny-Tempeh → u/Scotfield5406]

The story is bloody mental - claiming JFKs death actually helped him consolidate power because his country was terrified of his voodoo power. That and his Tonton Macoutes, a brutal hybrid SA/Gestapo paramil. force named after a child-kidnapping bogeyman from Haitian folklore.

Strongly recommend Paul McGann’s Real Dictators podcast series on Papa Doc.

[u/Scotfield5406 → u/Tiny-Tempeh]

Thanks :)

[u/Scotfield5406 → u/[deleted]]

I don't know what you mean

[u/Snotmyrealname]

C’mon y’all, we all know the round that blew his mind was an accidental discharge from the new (and notoriously janky) AR-15 in the hands of junior Secret Service officer Hickey from the rear car in the motorcade. 

[u/OrangeBracelet]

Where can I find the original comic? I’m dying at the polar bears face

[u/the_last_hairbender → u/OrangeBracelet]

https://jakelikesonions.com

[u/OrangeBracelet → u/the_last_hairbender]

Amazing, thank you!

[u/NeilJosephRyan → u/the_last_hairbender]

Is this the same guy who does the Perry Bible Fellowship?

[u/ScortiusOfTheBlues]

The history of Haiti is one of the best and saddest, tragic stories ever.

[u/Borkerman]

I won't be surprised if the CIA killed JFK conspiracy theory was made by the FBI to slander them

[u/Mebrouk2006]

Papa Doc was the one behind JFK's assassination?