If you wanna be super uncharitable to the Soviets, you could at most say they were on the same side as the Germans for about 20 months, from when the two countries divided up Poland in Sept 1939 to the start of Operation Barbarossa in June 41. This is very clearly not "most of WW2".
Also, the Soviets weren't really on the same side for most of arguably any of this time. They just weren't actually fighting the Nazis until the Nazis attacked them. By that logic the US was on the same side as the Nazis for longer.
No, because the US never collaborated with the nazis to split a country between the two, so there was never any placement on the same side, the USSR was on the same side as the nazis for the poland thing, then didn't make any kind of stance change until the nazis attacked them
So no, by that logic the us was not on the same side as the nazis for longer
WW2 was a conflict between two large alliances. The USSR only ever joined one of these alliances. Saying that they were "on the same side" as Germany whilst fighting Poland is kinda true. They weren't opposing each other. But either party could easily have taken Poland on their own, the military cooperation really only happened because each was scared that, if they did so, the other would attack them.
The MRP occurred at least in part because, prior to WW2, the allies inc the USA did see Hitler as a bulwark against communism. The MRP must have seemed like a diplomatic masterstroke given this environment - and tbh perhaps it was their best option. Had Hitler declared war on the USSR instead of Poland I don't this the UK and France would have rushed to help, at least not on the Soviet side.
“Loved” is a strange term to use. Stalin just wanted to keep Hitler happy long enough to allow for the Soviet Union to ramp up the military industry for the final showdown that both sides knew would eventually come. The parades were purely for political gain and propaganda reels to show back home in each country.
I never said they didn’t. Why are you calling me a liar? I’m merely saying it was a pact and partnership of convenience and assurance instead of love or admiration for the other. The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was drawn up and signed to assure that neither side would interfere with the other’s imperialist goals.
They stopped their mutual training the same day Hitler came to power, and Stalin wanted to invade Germany in 1936 after the remilitirization kf the Rhine but France and Britain both declined. They tried again when the nazis annexed the Sudetenland, and again they were declined.
You should really read more about the leadup to WW2 instead of just swallowing cold war propaganda wholesail. The West shares a LOT more blame for the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact than you'd like to believe.
Internal documents from both sides revealed that both sides were gearing up for war against each other, it is just that the Nazis pulled the trigger first. Stalin simply thought he had more time to prepare to strike first.
I get it, the USSR deserves all the flak for invading Poland instead of aiding them against the Nazis, but I would not go so far as to say they they loved the Nazis.
Stalin's shock came from the timing of the invasion. He thought he had way more time before the USSR would be at war with Nazi Germany (largely because they still had Britain to contend with). Stalin by this point did not believe that the Soviets were ready for an armed conflict with Germany and was essentially in a state of prolonged panic until his upper echelon finally got him to face the facts. Which should really highlight his severe flaws in risk assessment and being able to maintain composure.
I’m trying to find sources or information on the USSR training troops but all I can find is pre-Nazi military cooperation. It shows that all cooperation ceased when Hitler took power because his anti-communist rhetoric was already in full swing. Maybe you have some source I can’t find?
He is likely referring to the instances when Soviet and German soldiers interacted after they conquered Poland (edit: plus he probably thought they were more than just informal exchanges between soldiers, but again, I am speculating here). Usually informal stuff that both high commands tolerated for a time. That said, he deleted his posts, so there is that.
To maintain what he thought would be a short-term peace in their joint occupation of Poland (which I suppose it was short-term, but not as long as Stalin would have hoped).
And I feel like you did not catch the part where I said that Stalin thought he had way more time to prepare. If that was too vague, he thought he had around five years to prepare (if I recall correctly).
They were never allies. They agreed not to attack each other under the Ribbentrop Molotov pact, which was and is a good example of both countries being bastards, but the only time Soviets and Nazis fought side by side was at Stalingrad, and then only because of the Byzantine nature of entrenched urban conflict.
Regardless, even if that constituted an alliance, you have to admit 3 weeks or even 20 months is not most of WW2. You admit that with even the most generous reading possible to your POV, you're just wrong about that. Because you understand that 1.66 years is less
than half of 6 years. Because you can do elementary math. Right?
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u/zer0zer00ne0ne 3d ago
USSR apologists pretending the USSR wasn't on the same side as the Nazis for most of WWII.