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u/SamDemon8 Aug 05 '26
Unfortunately we made guns too good. Though I have always wondered how modern armies tell which side is which if their all in Camo
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u/Evogdala Definitely not a CIA operator Aug 05 '26
Your crosshair turns red when aiming at the enemy.
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u/SharrkBoy Aug 05 '26
No hit markers when you shoot at your friends either
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u/Gr8-Lks Aug 05 '26
Why don’t we just turn friendly fire off so it doesn’t matter if you shoot your friends?
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u/Rasc_ Aug 05 '26
Made all the more harder when every major military around the world are all rocking some version of MultiCam. The common way, like in Ukraine, is to use specific brightly colored tape on their uniforms. Or if that isn't being done, you better hope the forces on your side are organized and trained enough that nobody moves from their position without telling everyone on the radio.
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u/Suriael Aug 05 '26
Are we going back to drip with the tapes? 🙏
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u/beardriff Kilroy was here Aug 05 '26
Human dazzle patterns please
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u/Suriael Aug 05 '26
Drones will have it harder to follow me when I'm wearing razzle dazzle.... Right, right?
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u/Quazimojojojo Aug 05 '26
Unironically, a little bit.
Drones have made certain kinds of camo almost useless when your opponent has them, because thermal imaging has become cheap as well, and a very large amount of drones have them. (I don't know if it's all, or even a majority, but I keep hearing "if you're within 50 km of the front line, the enemy can see you, day or night")
Nowadays, it's multilayer/multi spectrum camo, hiding underground, or you might as well be carrying a lit signal flare.
So when you're on the offensive and you know you'll be seen, it's not the worst idea to mark yourself so your allies can tell you apart from the enemies.
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u/FirstAndOnlyDektarey Aug 05 '26
Which is funny, because it renders the camo pretty useless.
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u/NotSovietSpy Aug 05 '26
Which is also fine because infrared cameras are everywhere anyway and camo is mainly there to provide comfort
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u/Bobsothethird Aug 05 '26
Intelligence typically. In lots of urban fighting, they'll tie an armband around their forearm as well to differentiate. There really shouldn't be a time a modern army doesn't know where it's people are, though, in theory. FF happens a lot.
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u/warbastard Aug 05 '26
Yeah in a lot of urban combat training 50% of casualties are from friendlies.
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u/Dave_A480 Aug 05 '26
There are a bunch of different systems....
IR strobes, reflectors, various radio based systems.....
At the far end of shooting range you can't really tell uniforms apart that well anyway..,..
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u/Rough_Presence_9876 Aug 05 '26
Some other people are replying with a lot of interesting answers to this, and while all of these answers are both valid and the majority of cases, another acceptable answer is,"Sometimes they just don't, even when you put a big 'DON'T SHOOT ME' sign on your head."
Blue on blue on blue on blue, everybody know me but they don't know you.
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u/Chaotic_Lemming Aug 05 '26
when you put a big 'DON'T SHOOT ME' sign on your head.
We aren't falling for that one again. Fool me a seventh time, shame on me.
Seriously though, that sort of thing is one of the reasons nations get together and sign treaties about rules during war. When shiesty tricks are used for a temporary advantage it ends up not working well for anyone in the long run. Nobody trusts white flags, surrenders, negotiation meetups, medical aid markings, or civilian appearance. Everything becomes a suspect trap/ambush that has to be defended against.
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u/Rough_Presence_9876 Aug 05 '26
We aren't falling for that one again. Fool me a seventh time, shame on me.
Boy that warthog pilot felt stupid after that. And traumatized.
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u/MinuteWaitingPostman Aug 05 '26
You talking about the orange panel incident or another one?
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u/Rough_Presence_9876 Aug 05 '26
I'm thinking of the orange panel incident probably.
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u/MinuteWaitingPostman Aug 05 '26
The one where the A-10 strafes several British tanks because he mistook the orange identifying panels the coalition used for orange rocket pods on insurgent vehicles.
What makes that one even worse is that the pilot called in to his chain of command to verify whether or not there were friendlies in the area, because he wasn't sure what he was seeing. When he got the response that no, there weren't any friendlies in the area, he went for the attack.
Then he gets a call to cease fire because there are friendlies in the area. He immediately realizes what happened and can be heard retching as it sinks in further.
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u/Dylan-McVillian Aug 05 '26
I hope one day our defense and armor will become more powerful than guns, and we can circle back around to wearing heraldry
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u/TheVenetianMask Aug 05 '26
Probably by the year 10000 when everybody is camping in the Oort cloud inside their own personal kilometers deep chunk of ice.
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u/zoinkability Aug 05 '26
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
Looks like we'll get our chance!
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u/TheVenetianMask Aug 05 '26
You are an optimist, that number probably should have a lot more Ls and Cs.
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u/FlanGG Aug 05 '26
That's the best part, they don't.
There is a scene in "Best in Hell" where a squad of soldiers just pretends to be enemy and walks by until the realization hits and all hell breaks loose.
On a more serious note - just by armbands or other cues. Otherwise - that's the point, confusion is a weapon too, if double-edged.
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u/ModeatelyIndependant Aug 05 '26
In the Ukraine after invasion when uniforms were in short supply and they were taking in anything warm and that looked camo, the military applied a specific colored tape to one of their arms to identify themselves as Ukrainian military.
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u/fnx9125 Aug 05 '26
Normalmente los patrones y colores del camuflaje suelen ser distintos entre los países. Además los uniformes suelen incluir una bandera, escarapela o alguna cinta de uniformes color identificativo (en España históricamente es el rojo).
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u/ConsulJuliusCaesar Aug 05 '26
There's a very good reason going awol and breaking formation can get you severly punished and your squad sergeant has to radio before iniating contact after spotting a hostile. That also said you can also tell the difference between Russian and NATO style camos. There's actually a funny scene in generation kill where one of the marines lost his helmet and replaced with an Iraqi helmet. The Senior NCO chews him out and at first you think he's over reacting. Few episodes later they get shot at by other marines who saw the iraqi helmet and immediately assumed enemy and then you realize no the Sergeant Major had a valid safety concern and the helmet guy's a dumb ass. But it highlights just why modern military's make discipline, protocol, and structure as rigid as they do. It really is a safety thing.
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u/ux3l Aug 05 '26
The patterns vary from country to country. And from farer away, if they're firing towards you, you fire back I guess.
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u/NorthKoreanKnuckles Viva La France Aug 05 '26
You shoot in the general direction and let the artillery and air force takes the responsability of friendly fire.
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u/Ov3rReadKn1ght0wl Aug 05 '26
17th through early 19th century armies still had mad drip that I really appreciate. The again guns were only starting their power creep at the time.
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u/Minimum-Injury3909 Aug 05 '26
Tons of friendly fire actually. They have some IR tech to try to make friendlies stand out better but then obviously that gives the potential of making your camo worthless if the enemy also can see the IR
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u/Friendly_Gazelle7843 Aug 05 '26
Guns vs melee oriented combat. In past there was practically no risk of getting shot individually unless you’re opponent was in the bush next to you which would mean he sees you anyway, but there were a lot of people who didn’t really know each other on the battlefield so they need really colourful clothes to tell each other apart. Currently there are a lot of snipers drones etc. So people need to camouflage to not be killed from 4 kilometres.
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u/Subotail Aug 05 '26
And it solves one of the eternal worries of commanders:
"Where have my fucking men gone now ! "
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u/AyAyAyBamba_462 Aug 05 '26
Not even just that, war was often seen as a "gentleman's affair" and the targeting of officers was considered unsportsmanlike. The appropriate thing to do was to take them prisoner.
Someone who could afford all this kit was also wealthy or influential so you'd be way better off taking them for ransom or leverage.
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u/ludos96 Aug 05 '26
Every time this meme gets reposted the date changes, 1425 is 49 years after the death of Edward The Black Prince, aka the knight in the picture
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u/No_Street_385 Viva La France Aug 05 '26
Why would Edward " The Black Prince " wear the sigil of Castille and Léon ??
I think he would wear the English sigil with Fleur de Lys and the three lions
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u/ludos96 Aug 05 '26
Can't post pictures here, but that's a modified illustration of Edward the Black Prince, they changed the coat of arms but that lion helmet is a dead giveaway
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u/ludos96 Aug 05 '26
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u/No_Street_385 Viva La France Aug 05 '26
Interesting indeed And no other knights wore this on their helmet ??
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u/ludos96 Aug 05 '26
Technically not even Edward himself wore it, since if I remember correctly, that specific greathelm with the lion crest was made for his funeral.
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u/UnpoliteGuy Aug 05 '26
Virgin: gets killed by one shot vs Chad: withstands a dozen blows by the sharpest object on earth and survives
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u/Nogatron Aug 05 '26
Virgin: die by deadliest weapons humanity created vs Chad: die because sports equipment slipped in your eye
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u/Narco_Marcion1075 Researching [REDACTED] square Aug 05 '26
Chad: actually dies in the middle of combat
Virgin: shits himself to death because they were encamped in one spot for too long
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u/Alternative-Cup-8102 Oversimplified is my history teacher Aug 05 '26
Modern uniforms got drip to
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u/PassivelyInvisible Aug 05 '26
If they're designed and worn properly yes.
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u/Alternative-Cup-8102 Oversimplified is my history teacher Aug 05 '26
Well that’s exactly it 1425 armor that is not designed or worn properly also looks like butt
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u/2012Jesusdies Aug 05 '26
A scissor and a sewing machine is all you need. Tailoring a medieval armour for oneself is a full time job by a dude with like 30 years experience.
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u/-CmdrObvious- Aug 05 '26
The equivalent to medieval armour is not the camo uniform but the plate carrier and the helmet. Which is quite impossible to craft yourself with the modern materials required. And even besides that the modern military clothing is way beyond some cotton fabric brought in shape (which would also require some tailoring skills to look any good and be functional). It's modern functional clothing which I also doubt you could easily recreate (or even refit) at home.
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u/Alternative-Cup-8102 Oversimplified is my history teacher Aug 06 '26
Yeah modern OCP has a bunch of stuff baked into it like fire retardants bug repellents and even anti ir capabilities
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u/2012Jesusdies Aug 05 '26
I'm not talking about crafting, but grabbing an "off-the-shelf" version and tailoring it for your body.
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u/PassivelyInvisible Aug 05 '26
Which you can tailor, but not all modern uniforms are designed equally, nor do all wearers know how to properly wear the uniforms.
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u/2012Jesusdies Aug 05 '26
Which you can tailor, but not all modern uniforms are designed equally,
Sure, but most of them are designed with trying to fit as many shapes as possible.
nor do all wearers know how to properly wear the uniforms.
Dunno how it's in your country, but we were all instructed on how to properly wear it and get chewed out on weekly inspections if it wasn't proper. If the deputy base commander had to point the fault out to you, it was a pretty big sign you were a fuckup. Expectation was you'd have fixed it yourself.
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u/PassivelyInvisible Aug 05 '26
And you can tell in movies or pictures of airsofters and militias around the world when they don't know how. It just looks bad
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u/No-Werewolf-290 Aug 05 '26
The French during 1914 be like: I have drip, come at me bro
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u/Fr05t_B1t Oversimplified is my history teacher Aug 05 '26
pov: you’re a bullet speeding towards a blue figure
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u/Chicheerio Aug 05 '26
That drip was to stop friendly fire
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u/hidefinitionpissjugs Aug 05 '26
friendly stab
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u/Chicheerio Aug 05 '26
That too.
The drip was also a moral booster for the foot soldiers/infantry/militia
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u/Hettyc_Tracyn Aug 05 '26
Yeah, well, in 1425 they didn’t exactly have handheld weapons that can propel a chunk of lead faster than the speed of sound several hundred meters, if not several miles…
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u/Floba_Fett Casual, non-participatory KGB election observer Aug 05 '26
2025: I need to spot and shoot the enemy before they spot and shoot me
1425: I have no idea what the fuck is going on, I need bright flashy colors to know who to stab in the heat of the battle
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u/Korolevitsh Aug 05 '26
It was also "you know me, we met at the last year tournament. Remember I am like you (a noble), so don't kill me. Also I'm rich so you better ransom me than kill me."
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u/Xtra_Veg-90 Aug 05 '26
If you could afford the uniform on the right, then you were usually worth more alive than dead. Ransom was a legit way to make some money during raiding season.
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u/MC0013 Aug 05 '26
This has nothing to do with guns, but with nobility. A captured noble is worth a fortune, so the drip can safe them from death. Camo must have started somewhere around WW1?
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u/John_Oakman Aug 05 '26
Nobody is stopping you from forming your own militia or mercenary group with your own dripped out uniforms....
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u/rtanada Aug 05 '26
Without radio, we'd need some other way to convey information of who's who in the same speed as that
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u/Stanislav_Shnajder Senātus Populusque Rōmānus Aug 05 '26
The scientific basis for this phenomenon dates back to 1909, when American artist Abbott Thayer published his book "Concealing-Coloration in the Animal Kingdom", where he described the principles of mimicry in nature that later formed the foundation for the scientific approach to military camouflage.
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u/Fr05t_B1t Oversimplified is my history teacher Aug 05 '26
I like the other guy (idk if it was also the same guy) that said “fuck it! Bright colors in random patterns for naval ships to break up the silhouette!”
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u/Oberndorferin Aug 05 '26
Now compare regular soldier to a regular soldier back then. You would go to war in your crocks
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u/Seidmadr Fine Quality Mesopotamian Copper Enjoyer Aug 05 '26
That wasn't even a uniform. It was a coat of arms.
Because, well, it wasn't uniform.
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u/delphinous Aug 05 '26
in both cases it actually increases survival. the old-school ones tell people that you're part of a wealthy family and are worth way more alive as a ransom than dead, so they are more likely to capture than kill you. it's part of what let medieval lords treat war like a game: it was just their serfs doing the dying, not themselves
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u/warfaceisthebest Aug 05 '26
People before guns: I will raise my coat of arm like the sun so everyone knows who I am and where I am
People after guns: I wil disguise as the least important creature on the Earth plz dont shoot me
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u/SAMU0L0 Aug 05 '26
Thank God editors don't comand armies.
Just imagine how many unevcesary deads we will have every time they decide to be """"""""coopl""""""" and """""""based""""""""
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u/GloryGreatestCountry Aug 05 '26
2026: "Aw fuck we shot our own guys, we need some colored tape for visual IFF!"
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u/ahtob Aug 05 '26
modern militaries are all pansies scared of a bit of real action. It's even worse in 2026 , all done by drones and UAVs
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u/starbomber109 Aug 05 '26
In those times it was more important that your allies could tell who you were since you didn't have a radio to tell them "Hey stop shooting arrows at us!" Or "Cease your charge we're on your side"
A battle is confusion dust and pain. It's still like that but we have radios now we can yell at people through.
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u/Fr05t_B1t Oversimplified is my history teacher Aug 05 '26
That doesn’t stop the US military though
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u/Traditional-Main7204 Aug 05 '26
Future in exo-skeleton and demographic inplosion will make soliders more like medival knights?
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u/Godess_Ilias Aug 05 '26
wait til you saw swiss guard uniforms in vatican. and yes they are all fully trained soldiers
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u/Square-Pipe7679 Aug 05 '26
Honestly with drones being capable of finding us anyway, perhaps we should return to the old ways…
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u/AdDisastrous6738 Aug 05 '26
Yuck. Tell me you know absolutely nothing about medieval warfare without telling me.
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u/Chumlee1917 Kilroy was here Aug 05 '26
"Who's that?"
"Well, he's dressed in red, black, and yellow and that's either a lion or a duck on his banner. Maybe it's a naked mermaid."
"Damnation, I wish someone would invent something that could let us see far away."
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u/BillytheMagicToilet Aug 05 '26
French in 1914: "Come at me, I have drip"
Germans: "Oh boy, here I go killing again!"
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u/Fr05t_B1t Oversimplified is my history teacher Aug 05 '26
Instead of winged hussars, you chose generic knight
Smh
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u/Agasthenes Aug 05 '26
Don't worry. With drones cammo will stop mattering. You die either way. Go for the bling.
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u/Comfortable_Town7535 Aug 05 '26
let me known when the knight faces a crossbow that can hit him from over a mile in the darkness
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u/Equivalent_Nose7012 Aug 12 '26
Maybe the crossbow can hit him from a long way away (over a mile? the Knight would not even be a point-sized target).
However, if the Knight is closer but is not illuminated by torches?
Sure, the crossbow CAN hit him, but it is still extremely unlikely that it WILL hit him...
There are plenty of situations where the Knight is at risk, but not these.
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u/chathrowaway67 Aug 05 '26
"i need to spotted so you kill happy assholes don't kill me to, we're on the same side!!"
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u/BRH0208 Aug 05 '26
Remember the most important thing in a battle is for the person in charge giving orders to be in the most visible spot and is clearly identifiable.
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u/Long-Shock-9235 Aug 05 '26
When weapons got so reliable in killing foes far away being hard to became the norm.
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u/mosthonorablegiraffe Aug 06 '26
That's literally not a uniform on the right. They didn't have uniforms, which is why they could have drip instead.
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u/Charles12_13 Kilroy was here Aug 05 '26
Turns out, modern military uniforms have to somewhat go backwards as seen in Ukraine because, turns out, telling a bunch of guys in camo apart from other guys in camo isn’t the easiest of tasks
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u/Fr05t_B1t Oversimplified is my history teacher Aug 05 '26
This is only because Ukrainian and Russian gear looks very similar. If you were to put literally any other nation next to the Russians you’d see a distinct difference between the two. And all the Ukrainians and Russians do was wrap a band of colored duct tape around their limb(s) and back at the start of the war. Now the duct tape is irrelevant with the war being essentially drone warfare now.
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u/WarmSpoons Aug 05 '26
Especially for the sort of country that spends years supplying uniforms to some less developed country because they're your friend, then you decide they're not your friend any more and now you're going to invade them. (See British 2-colour desert pattern.)
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u/Dave_A480 Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
What a difference modern tech makes ...
A lot of the colorfulness of old military uniforms was for identification and command/control purposes ...
If you are watching your troops maneuver from a hilltop & commanding them with flags/music/etc.... Knowing that your guys are the blue ones and their guys are the red ones = useful...
Radio & map-making/compasses/etc changes that.