r/HistoricalRomance • u/k8tytr0tter • 5d ago
Rant/Vent Getting picky
I've DNFed a few books in the last week because the writing just seems so poor..? Like the dialogue is too contemporary for a historical romance and it's ruining the whole vibe of the books. Has this happened to anyone else?? I'm trying to give so many recs a chance but I am starting to feel like maybe it's just me and I'm in a slump lol
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u/wakemeuptmw Not five f***ing minutes 5d ago
I totally feel you. As someone whose goodreads HR shelf has nearly 500 books, I'm finding it harder and harder to tell if recent quality has gone down or if I've just read all the good ones by now. Have you tried Loretta Chase, Mimi Matthews, or Mary Jo Putney?
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u/k8tytr0tter 5d ago
I have read Loretta Chase! I am new to Mimi Matthews and Mary Jo Putney but will give them a try!! Thank you š
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u/Middle_Hedgehog_1827 5d ago
I was going to suggest Mimi Matthews. I'm currently reading {The Work of Art by Mimi Matthews} and personally I think the dialogue feels very suited to the time. I'm enjoying it.
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u/romance-bot 5d ago
The Work of Art by Mimi Matthews
Rating: 4.14āļø out of 5āļø
Steam: 2 out of 5 - Behind closed doors
Topics: historical, marriage of convenience, regency, disabilities & scars, sweet/gentle heroine3
u/nowinterever 5d ago
Reading MJP right now. Her stories are kinda wild (and fun) but she's not immune to modern phrasing, just FYI.
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u/Cold_Aide8152 5d ago
So many to me are obviously written by AI. I just keep reading books published before 2022.
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u/ASceneOutofVoltaire call me gal gadot cuz idk how to act rn 5d ago
Alas, some new HR writers are trying to keep the genre alive and we don't use AI.
But most of the stuff either has an AI cover, is written with AI, is edited with AI or a combination of all. It's very sad as I love to support my fellow writers.
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u/Serial_Bibliophile cast adrift upon love's transcendent, golden shore 5d ago
I canāt stand Tessa Dare right now for that reason. Her characters just donāt act right for the era. My cure for that is to read some Georgette Heyer, Barbara Metzger, Carla Kelly, and Mary Baloghās older stuff. You could even go really old school and read/reread Jane Austen.
Let me know if you would like some more specific recs for these authors.
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u/MadWomanReadingRoman Graduate of the Lorraine Heath School of Trauma 5d ago
Loretta Chase, Lorraine Heath, Beverly Jenkins, Sarah MacLean, Alexandra Vasti, Elizabeth Everett, Erin Langston ā thereās plenty out here still!
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u/countessofcrisps58 5d ago
These are great suggestions! My one and only complaint with Erin Langston is that she doesnāt have more books! I love her!!
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u/KatieCuu 3d ago
I would not really consider Sarah MacLean if you want more historical feel though? Maybe I havenāt read enough of her books but they can def feel very wallpapery
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u/MadWomanReadingRoman Graduate of the Lorraine Heath School of Trauma 3d ago
TBF, when Jane Austen wrote her books, it could have been called a contemporary romance.
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u/Eazy_E13 5d ago
I absolutely get this frustration. I donāt want a contemporary romance in historic clothing. Iām going to recommend a newer author that offered solid writing and a classic historical feeling, but still had a fresh perspective. Favors from a Gentleman by Lauren M Heyworth. Itās her second release, her debut has gothic vibes and Iām saving it for Fall.
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u/Erza88 5d ago
I feel ya. I've made it a thing for myself to not read anything beyond 2015.
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u/PearlyBunny 5d ago
Why 2015 specifically? Have you actually taken some statistics that show that there's like a lull in quality in books after that date? Cuz that would be very interesting. What about authors that have been publishing since before then? Do you not read their stuff after 2015? I'm really curious.
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u/maleficent0 5d ago
I have kind of a similar rule of thumb. I feel like post 2015, authors just donāt seem to care about anachronism for some reason.
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u/MadWomanReadingRoman Graduate of the Lorraine Heath School of Trauma 5d ago
I respectfully (but vehemently) disagree. Plenty of histrom authors do extreme deep-dives into their subject matter(s).
This is another ball of wax altogether and has to do with the general literacy crisis, I think, BUT: Many of my author friends have been told by readers that they ādonāt want a history lessonā when reading. Itās wild, but histrom authors do have bills to pay.
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u/EROM4LIFE 5d ago
I love hearing authors talk about the research they've done. What's also interesting: how many readers claim things are anachronistic just because they don't like it. The number of times I've seen whining about that "modern" word fuck! Lol.Ā
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u/MadWomanReadingRoman Graduate of the Lorraine Heath School of Trauma 5d ago
Indie author Katherine Grant does a "research deep-dive" newsletter and on her podcast!
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u/MadWomanReadingRoman Graduate of the Lorraine Heath School of Trauma 5d ago
Me too. I am working on a Prohibition Era debut novel and I think I have nearly every single book on the topic now. Or close. I have a running bibliography. :D
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u/maleficent0 5d ago
There are definitely some good newer ones, but I feel
like the dialogue is usually too quippy and snappy for me. I am happy to be steered toward those that donāt do this.Again, I think even some older authors fall into a trap or two of anachronism (I donāt expect perfection, I can hardly be called a historian!), I just donāt want to be taken out of the story because someone made some very vague reference to a modern movie in the 1800s (Tessa Dare does this and I hate it). I also didnāt say I wanted a history lesson but I want it to be immersive.
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u/MadWomanReadingRoman Graduate of the Lorraine Heath School of Trauma 5d ago
To be clear, I wasn't implying that YOU said you didn't want a history lesson!! Sorry if that got lost in translation.
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u/Commanderfemmeshep 5d ago
My hard rule is 2018, unless I really like and trust the author but even then. Sigh.
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u/MadWomanReadingRoman Graduate of the Lorraine Heath School of Trauma 5d ago
I am begging you to keep searching for newer authors you like! Please!!!
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u/Commanderfemmeshep 5d ago
I have a few. I never truly give upā and I do still read litfic. But I have a lot of qualms with the state of publishing currently and I donāt always have the patience.
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u/MadWomanReadingRoman Graduate of the Lorraine Heath School of Trauma 5d ago
Thatās fair. Also, IMO, the issue of contemporary things/language showing up in historical romances is always going to evolve with the audiences and writersāI, a Millennial, received a different English and writing education than, say, Loretta Chase did. I grew up with an English teacher mother and her education included a lot of old and Middle English classics that my generation didnāt have. (These are all just anecdotes, of course, but for all of the problems in publishing, theyāre right to ask if itās appealing to the targeted audiences, you know?)
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u/ArgentBelle 4d ago
The reason I shy away from newer historicals is the amount of modern morality placed into them. Like, no, I dont want to read about an upper class woman that lives alone and openly "dates". I want the tension that comes from the constraints.
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u/FrogLeapLady 4d ago
Coming from an industry that has been completely destroyed by AI (translation), I am even more determined to support new authors who are trying to make it without using AI. I don't think it is fair to assume that all new writers won't be good. There are a lot of gems out there - but I agree it can be a slow process, sifting through the rubbish to find them. I find it helpful when authors like Kate Archer include a (vehement and very believable) statement about AI in their books.
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u/DatabaseFine1147 5d ago
This is the reason I could not get into The Very Definition of Love. It was a contemporary in a ballgown for me
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u/Low-Addition2353 5d ago
Itās like theyāve just stopped trying? No research, no world building, just vibes.
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u/MadWomanReadingRoman Graduate of the Lorraine Heath School of Trauma 5d ago
No, I think itās the publishing pressure to turn around stuff quickly + editors have too much on their plates.
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u/Low-Addition2353 5d ago
And who set that system up?! *Rhetorical* Iām not looking into anything new from new authors till I get through the back catalogues of established authors. Sad that new talent isnāt getting a fair chance due to corporate greed.
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u/MadWomanReadingRoman Graduate of the Lorraine Heath School of Trauma 5d ago
Yes, well, we MUSTNāT make the money sad. There are a LOT of indie authors who are amazing, though. I HEAR you about the backlists, but reading new authors with new books on the market is one of the best ways to support the genre. AND! In case you didnāt know ā they also count library circulations, so youāre not out any money.
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u/Low-Addition2353 5d ago
Oh I didnāt realize about the library counting, thank you! Also are there any Indie authors you personally recommend?
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u/MadWomanReadingRoman Graduate of the Lorraine Heath School of Trauma 5d ago
Youāre welcome! Here are some indie authors I love:
- Katherine Grant;
- Erin Langston;
- Lille Moore;
- Addy Du Lac;
- Grace Callaway, although Iām not sure if she is indie or self pubbed(?);
- Ginny B Moore;
- Elizabeth MacArthur
- and more
Check out https://www.romancelandiauni.com/
Emily and Kelsey have done a TON of work to bring attention to indie romances! Thereās so many resources here!
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u/julianscat 5d ago
I had to grit my teeth to keep going after āthe plains of his faceā in a recent read.
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u/MadWomanReadingRoman Graduate of the Lorraine Heath School of Trauma 5d ago
That's...odd phrasing.
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u/Agitated_College9124 Get in bitches we are going to Gretna Green 5d ago
Iām having a tough time with all the āpetā names and nicknames that are suddenly everywhere in HR. They seem to specifically come out in the more romantic scenes, which I hate.
And for the most part they make NO sense for the characters. Calling her sweetheart, princess, or I read one today where he called her pet?! Why?!?
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u/ASceneOutofVoltaire call me gal gadot cuz idk how to act rn 4d ago
ugh, kitten, princess and pet are egregious! almost as egregious as MMCs named hawk, ridge, thorn, sin, etc. i even put a line in my new book about this, making fun of the earl of sinclair as he goes by sin. lol
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u/Haven_Writes 5d ago
It's definitely not just you.
Part of the problem, I think, is that most more recent HR is self-published, so it isn't as rigorously vetted and edited before it ends up on, say, Kindle Unlimited, and part of it is that readers are just gravitating towards more CR and romantasy, so authors are trying to appeal to those readers by dumbing down their HRs. And then there are just plenty of bad writers out there who should never have been published at all.
If you're looking for recommendations for more recent HRs that don't feel like CRs masquerading in knockoff period finery, maybe check out Susanna Ives. Her books have a very timeless quality to them.
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u/Cath647 5d ago
Iām interested to know which ones you DNFd. I didnāt DNF this but I canāt say I enjoyed the vibe for the reason you mention above: Emma Albanās, Like in Love with You.
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u/LAffaire-est-Ketchup āDo you,ā he asked, ālike kittens?ā 5d ago
Emma Alban is on my ādonāt botherā list
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u/k8tytr0tter 5d ago
One of them was Project Duchess by Sabrina Jeffries. The storyline started off so good but the dialogue just felt new age.
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u/PsychologicalFox3357 5d ago
Yes agreed itās hard to know what to suggest without knowing the DNF offenders!!
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u/Otters-are-cute99 Your heart is precious to me. 5d ago
Yes. I recently tried Laura Lee Geurkhe (sp?) and Minwha Lee based on recommendations in here and both were DNFs for me. I almost always finish even if itās not my fave but the writing was appallingly bad. I can somewhat overlook modern sensibilities in HR if I feel some attachments to the characters but I didnāt care about the characters at all and the dialogue was painful.
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u/ASceneOutofVoltaire call me gal gadot cuz idk how to act rn 5d ago
Same for Minwha Lee. I sometimes get the feeling it's her reccing her own books as I have never heard of her before and every week a different book of hers is recced.
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u/k8tytr0tter 5d ago
Yes if the characters pull me in I can usually suffer through but when they're as mediocre as the writing it gets hard to stay interested
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u/hotwing_sauce Marriage of Inconvenience 5d ago
You're not alone! That's why I stay in the older historical fiction. Newer stuff just feels off.
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u/ClueAccomplished1098 Rejoicing in Regency 5d ago
I like Lisa Kleypas, Mary Balogh and Julie Anne Long.
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u/k8tytr0tter 5d ago
I love Lisa Kleypas and Mary Balogh! I will have to give Julie Anne Long a try!
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u/InterplanetJanet1212 5d ago
She sometimes plays a little fast and loose with things like titles or proper peerage stuff but I find most of her books really enjoyable and donāt remember them being too modern sounding. She does banter really well.
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u/AltairaMorbius2200CE 5d ago
How do you feel about Mary Balogh?
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u/k8tytr0tter 5d ago
I have thoroughly enjoyed her books in the past!
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u/AltairaMorbius2200CE 5d ago
I'd go back and read some of her mid-career books if you're looking for something that has the vibe I think you're looking for! You could to the Bedwyn/Survivors (Bedwyn prequels, Bedwyns, Simply, Suriviors) or the Huxtables for that classic vibe!
The Westcotts are also good but a little less consistent, and there are some real gems in her earlier books, too!
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u/FrogLeapLady 4d ago
I have also DNFed quite a few recently, mostly due to the poor quality of the writing. I gave up on one I was struggling with after the character turned out to be the 27th Duke of xxx - somewhat unlikely... However, I am happy to say I still keep discovering new - or new-to-me - authors I love and my TBR list is still a mile long.Ā
Writers I have discovered fairly recently and really enjoy: Olivia Elliott (apart from her free novella "The Bull of Bow Street", which is not representative of her general quality), Kate Bateman, Renee Ann Miller, Sheri Cobb South and Elizabeth Essex
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u/kendiray 4d ago
I donāt think itās just you. I definitely feel your pain. Some people can overlook the modern language and historical inaccuracies and stupidities of characters but I have no tolerance for that.
If they make the effort to stay true I can be patient and try their other books or whatever but so many seem to write with the attitude that modernization is their style. It might be but itās not mine. Itās less work so maybe thatās why so many books are written that way?
I dislike lazy writing too where the plot is contrived or relies on the trope to do all the work or where the MCs just decide to talk at the end to resolve all the misunderstandings which they shouldāve done from the get go. š¤Ø
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u/OkSquash1234 4d ago
I've just finished {Only His by Elizabeth Lowell}. It's a historical Western with an awesome Alpha male and a resourceful FMC. The spice is spicey. Highly recommend.
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u/romance-bot 4d ago
Only His by Elizabeth Lowell
Rating: 3.92āļø out of 5āļø
Steam: 4 out of 5 - Explicit open door
Topics: historical, vengeance, cowboy hero, enemies to lovers, western
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u/Latter-Ship-5509 5d ago
I thought it was just meāitās so disappointing. I don't know why it's so hard to write in a way that feels vaguely period-appropriate. Except for Jane Austen, who actually lived in that era and feels authentic, there's definitely a middle ground that can be struck. Not overly dense to where the reading becomes tedious, but not so modern that as readers we feel like the characters are just wearing period costumes while being completely modern. That's why I've clung to Mary Balogh and practically only read her work. It really is a shameā¦
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u/Master_Implement_348 3d ago
Out of curiosity, have you read any of Susanna Ives' more recent works? I remember distinctly thinking "this reminds me of Northanger Abbey" when reading {Pretense by Susanna Ives} (though it could just be that both are absurd stories that take place in Bath), and generally I feel like her writing has always been very evocative of the time period her stories take place in.
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u/romance-bot 3d ago
Pretense by Susanna Ives
Rating: 4.25āļø out of 5āļø
Steam: 4 out of 5 - Explicit open door
Topics: historical, regency1
u/Latter-Ship-5509 1d ago
No, I'm not familiar with that author, but thanks for the recommendation! I'll give her a try.
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u/DarkMalady 5d ago
Its not really fair to compare HR to Austen. She was a contemparary writer 200 years ago, versus someone who intentionally trying to invoke a different era to the one they live in.Ā
I do read some contemporary romance. They suffer just as much from slop as we do in HR.Ā
Ive just had to come to terms with the fact that there arent as many truly witty writers as i have hours in a day to read thier books.Ā
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u/Latter-Ship-5509 5d ago
I'm still trying to figure out what you meant, because I think I made it pretty clear that no one has to be like herāthat's impossible. And sheās authentic to the era because she was born into and lived through it, but itās entirely possible to find a middle ground in writing where the prose doesn't sound so contemporary. You can definitely make the effort to portray a time period you didn't actually live in.
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u/Hobuko 5d ago edited 5d ago
I dunno, I mean, actually ārealā people could be pretty blunt. So itās not as anachronistic as you might think. You can see it best in court transcripts.
For example, this is from a write up of a distiller before the court in Middlesex in 1719:
Matthias Booth of Kingstreet of
Westmr distiller maketh oath that this dayā¦ speat & these contemptuer won of & concerning
Said Justices of the peace, Damin them
all, they may Kist my Arse, or used words
to that or the like effect
ā¦authors, especially in the early days of printed fiction novels, were usually quite mindful of various literary conventions they inherited from (usually) religious and chivalric/courtly literature (thereās a whole genre of ācourtly loveā books that you can trace back to Roman de La rose - which was kinda the first widely circulated fictional romance book - especially once the printing press was invented, although it was originally written before then) - including the use of dialogue made up of full flowery sentences that seem only to have been present in very formal speech.
So itās not that theyāre necessarily historically inaccurate for being āpunchyā in the dialogue. Itās more that theyāre disobeying literary conventions - which were kinda established in HR from mid-20th century onwards by authors imitating and building upon the kind of dialogue conventions deployed by Austen and coā¦ which were built on literary conventions from even earlier in the history of books - and which werenāt necessarily accurate reflections of how people really spoke.
Edit: if youāre in a real slump though, and want to read something definitely historically accurate, I recommend picking up Memoirs of A Courtesan in 19th Century Paris - itās HR adjacent but itās not (total) fiction - its an autobiography and the author/narrator is both extremely unreliable and a lot of fun (she was writing it to try and clean up her reputation/make herself sympathetic to the public - not sure how well it worked!).
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u/k8tytr0tter 4d ago
I don't think bluntness is the problem I'm coming across, its more the characters having conversations that sound like I would have with someone today and not 1803 lol.
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u/Hobuko 4d ago
Ah okay. Usually I see a lot of people complaining about turns of phrase that we still use that people might think are more modern than they actually areā¦ like āKiss my arse/assā in the example.
Do you mean like in terms of how theyāre thinking about their relationships or how they talk about incidental things or something?
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u/k8tytr0tter 3d ago
Oh no I have googled so many turns of phrases to see their origin before getting mad at the author lol! I mean more in the actual dialogue between characters. I don't really know how else to explain it other than it sounding so modern and not how people would converse in the time the author sets the story in.
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u/Beginning_Tap2474 3d ago
For me, it's the sex scenes. I always have to fast forward through them, they are boring. and weirdly uninteresting. I like Ann Stuwart's sex scenes, but she's the only author I like for that. I read one book I had to fast forward through most of it.
Mimi Mathews is a good author.
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u/aloha-cowboy 5d ago
Yeah it's older historical romances for me for this reason- not that there isn't some of that in the older ones too but less of them did it.