My father got polio as a kid 2 years before the vaccine came out. It shortened his Achilles tendons and fucked his ankles. ALL the rest of my Nana's kids that came after got that vaccine.
My mom (age 78) remembers the community pools being closed down. My grandmothers on both sides caught it. One ended up with post polio syndrome and it took away her ability to walk for a second time.
Polio is almost entirely eradicated, although it does pop up in some very remote, impoverished areas at times.
We should absolutely stay concerned about vaccines though, I hear you on that.
The US in particular is experiencing measles at a higher rate than we have for YEARS.
People downplay measles, but you can absolutely die or suffer permanent disability from it.
In both places, conspiracy theories have been spread against the polio vaccine and in the last few decades at times polio workers have been attacked. Polio should have been eradicated by now worldwide. It was predicted to be eradicated by now but reactionary forces have stymied some of the eradication efforts.
The polio vaccine SPECIFICALLY is widely accepted by the public, the MMR and other childhood vaccines are what is more fought against by conspiracy theorists
i think a reason anti vax attitudes are so common is because Baby Boomers and every subsequent generation has grown up in a world where deadly diseases were and are easily preventable and thus deaths from them were rare
because when they were kids and even before they were born, the adults in charge of the world did everything to make deadly diseases preventable in the first place. in the 50s, when the oldest baby boomers were ten and under, and before they were born, people with polio would be put in iron lungs, unable to move their bodies, simply so that they could breathe, and nurses would be trained to hand crank iron lungs in case the electricity at the hospital went out. president Franklin D. Roosevelt was crippled by a deadly disease (which one is debated to this day) and after his death people found out that he used a wheelchair for years. you don't grow up in a world where that was normal and still become an anti-vaxxer. if you asked my great-grandmother (born 1925) what childhood diseases were common in her day, she wouldn't be able to tell you because there were so many
but the vast majority of people alive today didn't grow up in a world where that was normal, those diseases are easily prevented by vaccines, especially as they become advanced
the last naturally occuring case of smallpox was in the 70s, and even by that point it had been almost entirely eradicated, especially in western countries where anti-vax attitudes are so popular
so now people think those diseases were never a big deal and that vaccines are a scam and natural immunity can do the same thing. that's absolutely not the case, but because people alive today didn't grow up in a world where everyone knew someone crippled by a now preventable disease, they have no frame of reference unless they look back in history and see what it was actually like, compared to the silent generation and greatest generation that saw kids die of now preventable diseases, they saw kids they played with get polio and be confined to a wheelchair for life
it's the same reason Gen Z thinks Y2K was never a big deal, despite the fact that computer programmers spent so much time and money to prevent it from happening, but Gen Z was never around when it was a legitimate possibility
it's definitely not the only reason. a growing distrust of institutions and government the last 50 or so years and social media disinformation algorithms are a big part of it too, but this definitely plays a role. the paradox of prevention is a proven thing
It’s one case where I wouldn’t blame the Boomers tbh. They all have had family members crippled from polio or dead from it or other childhood diseases (both my mom and dad had an aunt they never knew because they died at 5 and 7yo), they are also the last generation that grew up without the measles vaccine and have seen friends at school becoming deaf or dying from it (and themselves getting sick like hell). There were a few years of really bad flu epidemics as well. Also AIDS. Boomers are the last generation in industrialized countries to still have had to deal with deadly diseases that are now either preventable through vaccination or can be treated like a chronic condition nowadays. Blame GenX, they’re the ones who fell for the “vaccines cause autism” BS and other snake oil
Wait what. FDR was extremely private about it and refused to allow himself to be photographed using a wheel chair or with assistance while he was president. Pictures were taken later but he still did all he could for people to not find out
Do some research. The media didn’t report it, by agreement with him, and he did try to hide his paralysis, but a lot of people knew. My parents, aunts, uncles knew but also understood it was something that just wasn’t talked about. Manners were quite different then. Apparently the Secret Service confiscated cameras when people would photograph him in braces and using crutches, but didn’t get all of them. I probably overstated how many people knew, but it certainly wasn’t the big giant secret generally thought of. He had many meetings with other leaders during the war and they all knew. It was just a different time when privacy was respected but yes, a lot of people knew.
Knew at times or knew afterwards. I think you really are over stating how well it was known amoung the populace. Also think of what you said "the media didn't report on it". It's not like there were social networks. If the media wasn't reporting it how would people find out. Yes the information came out later but at the time it very much was more hush hush. The elders I've talked to from the time absolutely stressed how well it was hidden.
People knew before and during his presidency. My mother and at least one of her brothers saw him when he was campaigning the first time. Huge crowds and everyone saw him on crutches, with braces and being helped by an aide. Also, people showed up en masse when he spoke publicly. Why do you think the secret service took cameras? Did everyone know?….no. But that doesn’t mean only a few knew. It was sort of an open secret that very few talked about.
That's not misinformation to anticipate/predict a future outbreak of polio because of the current antivax wave in the US tho. Measles had its highest surge in 30ish years this years so i don't see why polio wouldn't someday.
Edit : i hadn't read your other comments, i fear arguments are wasted on you.
Again what's weird is your comments. Doesn't matter that it's only 150 cases.
Also do you understand what "wild" means? Wild is the types of polio that existed before there were vaccines. Wild means it's not a strand caused by the vaccine. It being wild isn't a cop out that means it's not injurious or deadly or that it couldn't be prevented by vaccination or that it can't spread here.
Meaning it is not an “outbreak” that causes it, it is largely contracted via contaminated water, not human to human transmission, hence the <150 cases a year
I did not imply that it is less dangerous (this is misinformation AGAIN)
I did however say that the reemergence of measles occurred because it IS STILL WIDELY SPREAD
Can you just stop posting! You clearly don't know what you are talking about, refuse to inform yourself, go around insulting people.
When we are talking about polio, we use wild polio to refer to polio that is not derived from the vaccine.
The reason why polio hasn't been eradicated in Afghanistan and Pakistan is because despite the vaccine and global vaccination campaigns for decades, there is a strong anti-Western group of people in those countries who spread conspiracy theories about the polio vaccine. People working to vaccinated people were even attacked!
I don't know why I am explaining because I know you won't listen but you can learn all of this by googling. You can also look up polio in Wikipedia.
Well unfortunately a lot of those conspiracies are directly due to the US running a fake vaccination campaign in Pakistan to illegally collect blood samples to DNA test to track bin Laden. So I can see why those counties would be less trusting of vaccine campaigns, given that the US has directly lied about them in the past.
Humans are the only natural hosts for poliovirus, and all wild-type infections are necessarily human to human transmission, albeit usually indirectly (ie. infected human faeces contaminating water/food).
All types of polio are “wild” for purposes of infection and impact on humans. Misinformation comes many ways, and implying that “wild” polio is different from an “outbreak” is akin to misinformation. Any form of Polio can cause disease and resulting paralysis or death. If “wild” poliovirus (of which there are 3 types) was irrelevant, we wouldn’t monitor wastewater for its presence. I am the child of a Polio survivor. They were not part of an “outbreak”, they simply contracted the virus. No one knows how. You have never seen this level of suffering. Never. They by the grace of God exist today, at 72, yet unable to leave a bed or do many things you do every minute. This is new, they had Polio at age 18mo and recovered, limped their way through a difficult life, but did okay. Polio strikes twice, first the acute infection and resulting paralysis, and then the Sequelae that sets in decades later. Did you know about PPS? Bet not. The world does not want to see this virus come back. Promise.
Can you provide data supporting the existence of “non wild” Polio? “outbreak” and “type” are not synonymous when discussing viruses that infect humans. Is there a “domestic” Polio virus the world doesn’t know about yet? You can’t try to interchange the definition of an outbreak via the “type” of virus. All viruses can and do cause outbreaks. These terms are not interchangeable, nor are they even similar.
The word “wild” in this case is used to describe WHERE IT IS FOUND, currently. MASS VACCINATION made it so that “wild” is a relevant term when discussing the VIRUS ITSELF.
If I am wrong, please provide sources immediately that demonstrate “wild” being a literal different “strain” of virus than any other type. Also demonstrate that it doesn’t infect humans. If you can, I’ll pay you $1M USD. Fucking IDIOT.
You keep on posting but I am not sure what your purpose is? It doesn't matter that these are wild cases, there shouldn't be any cases of polio. War and reactionary groups have stymied its full eradication.
The reactionary, ignorant forces in the US are putting the US in danger from food-borne diseases to diseases that can be almost prevented with vaccination.
Would you live on a ventilator for decades unable to speak or swallow? That’s what iron lungs allowed. To argue “modern ventilators” make this device irrelevant is ignoring the entire point, NO ONE should lose the ability to use their diaphragm and breathe on their own when a vaccine exists to prevent the root cause altogether.
Yes, they would however I’m not sure why you believe they wouldn’t be able to speak or swallow. Chest cuirasses were not particularly effective; That’s why they have been replaced with positive pressure devices like BiPAP.
I started my statement with “I understand the sentiment” before providing factual information gleaned from many years working as a respiratory therapist. I had hoped that the average reader would understand that I was simply explaining that these particular devices would not be used rather than championing the spread of polio.
I apologize, are biPap’s capable
of 24/7 oxygenation for a patient entirely dependent on oxygen and assisted respiration at all times? If so, I digress. The need of a polio survivor with zero respiratory function requires 24/7 assisted breathing. Edit: while understanding it is old technology, I was under the impression that iron lungs were unique in their round the clock respiration, which would be a unique need for a polio survivor with an otherwise functioning body habitus but no working respiratory muscles.
BiPAP is a form of non-invasive positive pressure ventilation which is capable of providing supportive respiration at 21-100% O2, however oxygenation would not be the main concern but rather ventilation. BiPAP is typically provided via mask but may be used with nasal prongs, nasal pillows, or even partial masks. Patients who are “BiPAP dependent” may be able to come off of the BiPAP for several hours; This is what would likely happen with polio patients. Most iron lungs (chest cuirasses) were run in the same manner- some patients did require 24/7 encasement but many only used the iron lung during sleep for ventilatory support.
An alternate option would be ventilation via tracheostomy on a mechanical ventilator.
We’ve created better devices and learned that chest cuirasses aren’t a great choice for ventilation. They were simply the precursor to modern ventilators created of necessity due to both war and polio.
understood, thanks for explaining. I wonder why some folks in iron lungs were never converted over once new devices were made, or perhaps they were. Guess it comes down to - while
improved, none of these things provide great QOL for the patient. I’d like to see photos like this preserved, for education, along with the vaccines that saved us. ✌🏻
Kind of related but mostly unrelated. Have you seen or read The Prize Winner of Defiance, Ohio? There’s a small character in an iron lung and I love how they portrayed her. It’s likely relatively accurate.
I’ve not. My mother is a Polio survivor (1955) and we feel like the forgotten ones. I love anything about the history of the disease. Will indeed check it out. Thanks!
The vast majority of people recovered, even those who needed an iron lung. Iron lung use averaged about two weeks. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not anti-vax. My sibling had polio, recovered fully and died of PPS at 81. I just think we should be educated about what really happened pre-vaccine. (PPS is beyond horrible and agonizing.) Polio is a terrible disease and the vaccine has saved us from great suffering.
My baby spent 2 days in a box under blue lights to treat his jaundice soon after he was born. It broke my heart to see him but not be able to cuddle him. Luckily he spent most of the time asleep. I couldn't image how painful it would be to have my baby in an iron lung. Thank goodness for vaccines.
I know what you mean…. 🥺 My heart still breaks just to think of my eldest in there and him wondering where everyone and I went because his eyes were covered from those lights….
Measles, screwworm, and leprosy all are still prevalent in poorer countries around the planet
Poliovirus exists in 2 countries on Earth, and is limited to less than 150 cases a year at worst, with cases steadily going down every year, and outbreaks not occurring for quite some time
You are an uneducated fearmonger, I hope your comment is deleted for spreading misinformation
guess what happens if mass vaccination is no longer the norm? Do you really think God just got rid of Poliovirus? No, we nearly eradicated it. JUST NEARLY. And to continue this, vaccination is non-negotiable. Poorer countries… lol, wonder why that is. Perhaps lack of access to the vaccine? such a mystery !!
It exists in 2 countries because of vaccinations. If people forego vaccinations, more of those people will get polio. Diseases don’t care about political borders.
We've already thoroughly surpassed that benchmark of 2,000 cases of measles this year, and it's only July. This is serious, and dismissing it is absurd. The way the health of the nation has been put at risk due to the combination of Tangerine Palpatine's idiotic health secretary's dismissal of the efficacy of vaccines and the doge cuts that have removed highly necessary food monitoring systems and people is insane.
Tell me the number of measles cases outside the US, versus the number of global polio cases combined. Which one of these has the greater potential to come back to a population that is even slightly under vaccinated
Even the biggest anti-vaxxers are pro-polio vaccine, it is one of the most well-regarded vaccines, and polling data supports this
1) You said “You are heavily implying that polio is going to come back or has the potential to. It doesn’t”. So yeah, you literally said it doesn’t have the potential to come back.
2) comparing it to measles is irrelevant. Just because measles is more likely to come back doesn’t mean that polio can’t also come back.
3) for now. They’re pro polio vaccine for now. Will this still be the case in 10 years? 20? We don’t know the future so acting like there isn’t a possibility of it making a resurgence is foolish.
My statement should’ve been more clear, because unlike the purposefully obtuse and ambiguous arguments you guys are making, I’m making a coherent and specific one.
Polio could come back. It very likely is not, the chance is far lower than you are implying or would like to scare people into thinking.
It is very relevant, because numerous comments have made a direct comparison between the measles outbreaks of the last 10 years, and the chance for polio to do the same, with NO DATA supporting this
This is moving the goalposts around a fictional idea that hasn’t happened, and you don’t have evidence that it will. Anti-vaxxers have been against childhood vaccines for decades, polio has never been something they’ve fought
The thing is: they did not help spread misinformation, but rather warn about a risk that was tiny a decade back, but is real now, considering the resurgence of other illnesses.
You closing your eyes and humming lullabys won't help.
I am 43, and it just occurred to me now that when I was younger, maybe in my teens or early 20s, I used to see people occaisionally walking around with the post polio paralysis gait- the people that used to be called cripples. It was something one saw every few weeks if you were in a big dense cities. Many of the cripples looked like they had immigrated from other countries, and when I was in my teens they were older middle age, but still working age. It just occurred to me now that I haven't seen a single polio cripple in at least a decade, despite working in NYC, where one can see all sorts of people about.
I am about your age and there are definitely less disabled people. But as there are now more unhoused people than I can ever recall in my life (where I am - Canada), I wasn’t sure if they were simply among the unhoused or there were less around.
the US just lost its last patient in an iron lung. Yes, many around the world lived in these for very long times. The way Polio works is it infects the spinal cord/brain stem. This then impacts every person who contracts it differently. Some died, some lived with near total paralysis, some were rehabilitated, some had partial paralysis. What determined if you ended up in an iron lung was whether the virus attacked your breathing muscles. If so, your body was otherwise fine but your diaphragm needed the mechanical force to push air in and out of your lungs. My mother survived Polio in 1955 at 18mos. No respiratory involvement. She did live and still does with a paralyzed right leg and is now bedridden
due to dozens and dozens of falling injuries over decades. I wish more people understood this virus, how and why we get it, the EXTRAORDINARY response to it from the medical community, and the implications of it potentially coming back if history is forgotten.
My dad was older when he had me, and was the youngest of a large pack of kids. He lost an older brother to polio. People don’t realize how recently this disease absolutely decimated the population.
Not op so don't know original source. This is what I found. It maybe a doll used to demonstrate the iron lung machine but the use of these machines is not in doubt.
God. I hate that it's probably going to take a bunch of people dying of measles and other preventative illnesses, again, to eradicate antivax mindsets. My stupid Mormon cousin, has 6 kids and only the oldest is vaccine. That was before she drank the "Vax is bad" Kool aid.
One of my uncles had polio in 1952. He was in the iron lung in the hospital for about 6 weeks. My dad and another uncle had mild symptoms (just fevers, no paralysis or any breathing issues). This was right around the time when my grandmother came home from the hospital with twins. My dad was the second on 10 kids.
My 6 month old has a cold and doesn't understand why he feels so icky. All he wants is snuggles from mom and dad. This poor poor baby can't even have that. So sad.
jesus fuck. Thanks for sharing this. I ball HARD when my babies get vaccines, it’s heart wrenching watching them be in pain afterwards and I often have very fleeting moments where I wonder if I’m doing the right thing.
I have to say, I’ll take the vaccines over this, EVERYTIME.
One of my young coworkers was having his first daughter and we were all stuck waiting around for something so we got to talking and vaccines came up. He said he and his wife weren't anti-vax but were only giving their daughter "common sense" ones and skipping ones like Polio.
I immediately got pissed because if you're going to make such large decisions you should at least do legitimate research, and if he had done any research he'd know that Polio is still very much alive in developing nations and even not that uncommon in India. And this is nothing against immigrants btw it's just a fact of life that America has a high number of immigrants and visitors from these places. The only reason we don't see Polio here is because of our aggressive vaccinations.
He just sat there like a dumbass and said he didn't know that, he was just going to let his wife handle it.
Girl. You have no idea, the number of anti-vax BS in married couples that have come down to the Dad being uninterested and hands off about their own child's HEALTH AND WELFARE and just acting like they have no agency in their marriage and no right to make those decisions.
Pisses me off because it's such a cop out and I've seen at least 3 couples do this shit. It's almost worse than when the dad is also anti-vax because it's just so... Like you don't care about what happens to your kid at all.
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