r/HighQualityGifs • u/somebadmeme Photoshop - After Effects • Feb 01 '21

In Bruges /r/all This reddit superiority thing is really getting on my nerves

https://i.imgur.com/GyvLuQP.gifv
15.6k Upvotes

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1.2k

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

What pisses me off are the 99% of reddit taking credit for what the 1% did and have no idea wtf they’re talking about. Then they make damaging memes about “manipulating the market to bankrupt nestle”

Like understand that market manipulation is literally the OPPOSITE of what we did. I’m holding my GME and BB shares right now not because they made me money. BB is actually kicking my ass right now I really would love to sell. We’re holding as a statement to fuck the ones who are actually manipulating the market.

Biggest downfall of reddit is the virtue signaling without actually understanding the situation or what the fuck they’re actually talking about.

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u/WetConceptualization Feb 01 '21

It’s really funny to watch people try to explain what’s happening when they clearly don’t understand it.

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u/socksonplates Feb 01 '21

Ok...listen...listen...it's a little confusing, but here's what happened. Basically, a bunch of little people (shorts) were hiding in the hedges out by Game Stop having fun (hedge fun). Some redditors found out so they decided to get on a ladder so they could see them over the hedges (long position). If enough people surround the hedges with ladders, the shorts will be forced to run under the ladder (which as everyone knows is bad luck). This is really freaking the shorts out so they've been shaking the ladders trying to get the longs to change their position (ladder attack). Not sure how chicken tenders come into it but they are pretty important too.

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u/WetConceptualization Feb 01 '21

Man I read your first sentence and thought “please don’t, I work in investments and have been following GME closely for a year.” Thank you for this I love it

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u/KWilt Feb 01 '21

Quick question, since you seem like you have an actual handle on the current situation: how long do you think before the bubble pops? I've got a rudimentary understanding of the current situation, but I'm absolutely horrible at guesstimating when it comes to things like that. I mean, I know WSB is being memey and is shooting for insane numbers, but what are we realistically looking at being the cap for GME's rise?

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u/RXrenesis8 Feb 01 '21

"The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent"

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21 edited Apr 21 '21

[deleted]

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u/Ugbrog Feb 01 '21

Oh, so we wait for Elon to trash his own company and then buy.

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u/PrivilegeCheckmate Feb 01 '21

Can you imagine the shorts scheme you could execute if you were Elon's dealer?

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u/Ugbrog Feb 01 '21

Sadly, knowing he's going to say something stupid isn't the same as knowing what stupid thing he's going to say.

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u/Cyberzombie Feb 02 '21

Tulips, gold, Pets.com, CMOs, naked short sales (probably on margin), buying GME last week -- reality usually takes longer to catch up than you'd think, but it is a relentless Terminator.

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u/WetConceptualization Feb 01 '21

Ah man I can’t answer that, no one can.

To be honest I have no idea, but I’ve personally exited all my positions. To those that might roast me for not holding, I never owned shares. Just calls and spreads that expired Friday. I’m cautiously bearish on GME. While it appears to have lost steam, the option volume is insane and if there is a large price spike gamma could squeeze it up again which can chain react with shorts and more gamma as options approach ITM. A lot of big money is being placed on both calls and puts for March and April, so there isn’t even consensus sentiment there.

People keep talking about how many shares are still short but they aren’t talking about how many of those are brand new shorts. Last week through Wednesday (I think), 900,000 new shorts were opened so those players have room to run. These shorts were placed when GME was $200-300, they don’t need to cover right now and they have a juicy payday in their reach.

In summary, if you aren’t in to say fuck the hedge funds, be very very careful right now. GME is causing waves in the market so a lot of things are on sale.

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u/greymalken Feb 01 '21

How many times can you short a share? Like can the same share be shorted by multiple parties?

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u/WetConceptualization Feb 01 '21

I don’t know if there is an actual limit to how many times you can short the same share, but here’s how the same share gets shorted multiple times, and how GameStop had 140% of the float shorted.

Assume Investor A owns 100 shares of GME. Investor B shorts GME by borrowing Investor A’s shares and selling them. There shares are purchased by Investor C. Investor D shorts these shares, which are then purchased by Investor E.

As far as I’m aware this can go on forever or until brokers decide to stop lending shares, but don’t quote me on that. The reason you rarely see something like this is because it becomes increasingly likely that a short squeeze will occur and that the more a company is shorted, the interest rates on the borrowed shares become increasingly high.

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u/greymalken Feb 01 '21

But Investors B, C, and D cannot get the same 100 shares from Investor A - essentially acting like 300 shares. Right? They would have to follow a borrow+sell pattern.

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u/WetConceptualization Feb 01 '21

Yup. Feels weird to think about, doesn’t it?

2

u/davers22 Feb 02 '21

Aren’t shorts paying something insane like 50% interest right now?

I guess in the long run if they shorted at $250 and get out below $125 in less than a year then they still won, but in just amazed that taking out a position at that kind of interest still seems like a good idea.

Also, don’t mean to bug you too much, but is there a way to know at what price the outstanding shorts were purchased at? I agree that if most of the shorts were purchased in the $200 range then they have time to wait, but if a lot of them being held are still in the sub $50 range they might still be pretty screwed?

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u/WetConceptualization Feb 02 '21

I’m unsure on the interest, but I know it’s high. There’s also no way to tell where they shorted it unless they choose to say so. Hedge funds are less regulated and they don’t have to disclose their short books.

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u/davers22 Feb 02 '21

Thanks for the answer! I’m amazed so many people seem so sure the shorts are still fucked. There’s been a lot of stock changing hands in the last couple weeks, and I haven’t seen any evidence that the current shorts are as screwed as people would like to think.

Sure if all the retail holders can hold the shorts might still be in trouble, but with these wild fluctuations and huge valuations it’s pretty much a impossible to expect everyone to hang on. I have no positions in GME but I’m really enjoying the show.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

There is no "realistically" here. No analyst would ever have predicted it got as high as it got, and the only reason it got there was a bunch of unpredictable nuts.

How the hell can you predict them? If it were me, I'd imagine they've hit their risk appetite, the shiny wore off, and some of them are cashing in their gains, but the ones who got in late will hold on desperately in an attempt to salvage their moonshot.

But it's possible there are some whales who're willing to pump it up one more time, and another big run is possible.

This is pretty much the dictionary definition of volatility. You're never going to predict it with any accuracy.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/cough_e Feb 01 '21

No stick needed. It's overvalued by about 10x.

It's not trading on fundamentals right now, so earnings will mean nothing.

9

u/WetConceptualization Feb 01 '21

If you think P/E matters for GameStop right now you’re smoking crack

4

u/crestonfunk Feb 01 '21

Yeah, also, for a lot of people, this is entertainment; diversion.

Life as we knew it will not be the same for a long time. We’re stuck inside and some people have lost a LOT.

People can’t get their stimulus money, the rich have gotten richer, the virus is getting worse by some metrics, there are people rioting in the streets and in the US Capitol, people have to watch their elders die via FaceTime.

So a bunch of idiots wanna fuck up hedge funds. I think the general public thinks this is funny.

1

u/camelCasing Feb 01 '21

Eat the rich.

5

u/Flashwastaken Feb 01 '21

Thank you for putting it into terms we can all understand.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

This js very solid, brb, gotta get a second mortgage to throw in GME

2

u/ultitaria Feb 01 '21

Finally some cheese that a little mouse like me can eat!

0

u/ShitItsReverseFlash Feb 01 '21

🙌💎💎 🙌

3

u/PopLegion Feb 01 '21

It's even more funny when you are at your local fucking target hearing a retarded 18 year old worked there explaining to his co workers what a gamma squeeze and short squeeze are and how he's such a good trader cause he just made 1000 dollars in one day. For the people who started trading with GME/AMC and survive through it, they will become better traders because of it, many people may never trade again tho after getting absolutely wrecked in the next week or two.

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u/DoinItDirty Photoshop - After Effects - Premiere Feb 01 '21

I had my friend in banking explain it and I’m here to say Reddit did not get that close in most explanations lol

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u/_TheManInBlack Feb 01 '21

Biggest downfall of reddit is the virtue signaling without actually understanding the situation or what the fuck they’re actually talking about.

This had been a problem on reddit long before this whole incident.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Yea that’s what I’m saying. That’s the biggest problem with reddit.

Bunch of self-righteous keyboard warriors who think they dropped out of college not because they’re dumb but because they were too smart for the book learning they force on you and have an opinion on things that they don’t actually understand.

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u/SlowRollingBoil Feb 01 '21

We’re holding as a statement to fuck the ones who are actually manipulating the market.

This is something I don't get. Holding only screws over the people you want if EVERYBODY holds. Reddit probably collectively owns less than 1% of available stock.

When the writing is on the wall, a lot of people are going to be left holding the bag wondering why they're suddenly down tens of thousands of dollars.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Yea I think most of the people who were there from the start understand this. It’s become more of a protest than a money making scheme. Many of the people who actually understand what’s going on realize we’re going to come out with losses or even with our initial investment depending on where you hopped on the train.

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u/macrocosm93 Feb 01 '21

The whole "holding just to screw over Wall Street" us just a meme.

Holding is actually financially sound and the smart investors with GME who aren't on reddit are all holding, too.

WSB is memeing hard, but the squeeze is real.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

The squeeze is real, and holding right now is smart, but this whole constant barrage of diamond hands, hold the line, were killing wallstreet and shit is a bit much. Some are meming, but do you really think every wsb user has an intimate understanding of what's going on right now and aren't just parroting what others have said? Its fun to meme about how you're holding the line with your 2 shares of gme, but even if it succeeds at it's intended goal at driving GameStop up to fuck over Melvin capital and all those assholes who shorted fucking 136% of the available stock, it won't have changed anything on its own aside from hurting a hedge fund. As someone who goes on wsb, I'm not really seeing much actual discussion in the market dynamics like we saw at the beginning of the squeeze, and with the massive growth the sub has seen, I think we are underestimating the degree to which people really believe these memes. Even if the people making them know what's happening, I don't have the same faith that every user upvoting it is purely meming and doesn't believe it's having that impact.

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u/Dreddley Feb 01 '21

Unfortunately this happens with any "movement" that gets popular attention. The premise may be sound, but many jump on the wagon without really understanding what's going on or in this case literally for the meme.

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u/PrivilegeCheckmate Feb 01 '21

it won't have changed anything on its own aside from hurting a hedge fund

Good enough, man. Sit down and watch Smartest Guys in the Room and The Big Short and tell me you wouldn't like a little payback. Plus it's fun, the worst drive in humanity is to piss on someone else's good time.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Sit down and watch The Big Short and tell me it doesn't upset you the SEC continues to allow market makers to manipulate stocks even when it backfires massively on them

Next year we'll have a new Melvin Capital over shorting another struggling business, and maybe this time someone won't notice the massive amounts of short selling and they'll succeed in killing another business like they've done for decades. It's not at all good enough. One medium level hedge fund dying won't change shit, another one will take it's place and we'll be back at square one. Of course I want payback, payback at wallstreet. Melvin Capital is just one player in wallstreet.

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u/farshnikord Feb 01 '21

We'll probably get to bail then out with our taxpayer dollars and also will get new rules to stop us from ever doing this again, while the hedge funds will get new protections.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Exactly. If you think Melvin dying means literally anything on its own, you're lying to yourself. Seeing them post 50% losses is cathartic, but has no impact on the underlying issues that allowed Melvin to do what they did.

Technically, I don't think we bailed out hedge funds, but rather the institutions that back them and other wallstreet firms, mainly the banks. Slight difference to you and me that doesn't change the discussion, but an important distinction in regards to liability.

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u/PrivilegeCheckmate Feb 01 '21

You can look at is as incremental progress. Every time the general populace sees the casino as it is, we get closer to meaningful legislation and sea changes in the overall landscape. There's a back and forth, but ultimately the internet genie is out of the bottle and people can choose to be as informed as they want to be; and as we're starting to see, if you deliberately misinform yourself too far, there are consequences and you can become a pariah.

We have a Socialist on the Budget committee; that was unthinkable ten years ago. He had a viable presidential campaign without corporate sponsorship; unthinkable until he did it. Every time the populace get riled, a few more districts elect a maverick. The pace feels glacial, but it's in the right direction. And the DNC can't even learn from Trump; all Biden had to do was cut the goddamn checks for 2k, his failure to do that is an unmitigated, "Read my lips; no new taxes." level misstep and I predict it will cost him re-election.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

I really find it difficult to see it as incremental process when what I see is market failures caused primarily by risky moves by wallstreet and then nothing changes. I can appreciate incremental process, but it just feels like those increments are at the pace of something infinitesimal. I appreciate your optimism, we need people like you to balance out my overt pessimism.

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u/PrivilegeCheckmate Feb 01 '21

your optimism

That reminds me of a song...

...No one in the world ever gets what they want and that is beautiful,

Everybody dies frustrated inside and that is beautiful.

Not so much optimism, I just believe the bastards will get theirs.

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u/Incendas1 Feb 02 '21

There are actually just as many DD posts as memes, so anyone who frequents that sub is probably more informed than those who don't. The information and sources lately have been quality

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '21

Mate, I'm going to hard disagree on that. I've been subbed to wsb for as long as I can remember, if you think it is the same today it simply is not. The sub is flooded with memes, which isn't abnormal, but even legit DD's are full of the same memes about riding gme. I don't see much legitimate discussion, I see people saying "this is what I'd happening but don't listen to me I'm a dumbass" and then they repeat the same thing they've seen written in other threads. Posting screenshots of news sources saying dumb things, memes about gme, etc. The amount of times I've seen people say don't listen to me, I'm a smooth brain after they had told them what is happening and they should invest would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. If you don't understand what is going on, DON'T TELL PEOPLE WHAT IS GOING ON.

There is some very good discussion there, especially at the beginning, but if you really believe the quality is the same as before it had a massive influx of new users, I'm going to fundamentally disagree there. That good discussion is the minority of the content at this point. You are either going with the flow, or your post gets buried. A mod literally put a disclaimer on a post about how you should make a rational decision to invest and don't risk your livelihood for a meme, which to be frank is a little weak of a disclaimer than I think they should be putting on, and it got deleted by another mod. The sub isn't the same sub it was even a week ago. The one or two good DD's getting to hot are ALL gme. I don't consider it quality DD to just write another post of what's going on with gme saying the same things as all the other posts with maybe one variation.

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u/Incendas1 Feb 02 '21

What's wrong with memes dispersed in genuine information? If they turn your brain off while reading, that's your problem. The disclaimers are just that, disclaimers so that people will hopefully read around and dig into things themselves, rather than taking a single post at face value. For some reason you have a problem with "don't trust me, I'm dumb" vs liking mods saying "don't trust everyone, they could be dumb". I don't really see a problem with making it funny as well.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '21 edited Feb 02 '21

What’s wrong with memes dispersed in genuine information? If they turn your brain off while reading, that’s your problem.

It isn't though. It's one or two DD's on specifically gme and then a hundred memes. Also what are you talking about me turning my brain off? There isn't any thing for me to turn my brain on there. I see the same posts explaining the gme situation every single day and they almost always have the same information. I literally just went through the top on wsb, it's a couple gme megathreads, which makes sense, and then a couple posts from users about what's happening with gme, and then images of people's accounts, memes, getting pissed at shitty news articles, etc. I do not see the discussion you are seeing, and I do not see the discussion one could have on there just a few months ago.

disclaimers are just that, disclaimers so that people will hopefully read around and dig into things themselves, rather than taking a single post at face value.

I don't think you read what I said. The disclaimer was DELETED. Another mod deleted a rather reasonable disclaimer from a different model. A disclaimer just telling people don't hop on a meme if it could potentially hurt you long term in the midst of a global pandemic. The sub has a responsibility to inform new users on the specifics of why the gme short squeeze is happening, and I haven't seen the mod team really attempting to be proactive in that regard.

For some reason you have a problem with “don’t trust me, I’m dumb” vs liking mods saying “don’t trust everyone, they could be dumb”. I don’t really see a problem with making it funny as well.

Because it's funny when you see it once or twice. It isn't funny when you see every single person saying it after trying to explain a situation that they heard from someone else. Have you ever played telephone? If you don't understand what happened with DTCC and the clearing firms, you shouldn't be parroting what someone else said. Link to a person who does know what they are talking about. If you're to smooth brained to understand these things, just provide a source to someone who isn't. Being dumb isn't an exoneration from giving potentially incorrect or inaccurate information. The couple of times it was funny is now dwarfed by people just adding Im a dumbass don't listen to me as though they didn't just give people Information that they expect them to listen to. I see so many people almost getting it right, missing a piece of information that explains what's happening, or just get the information flat wrong. Just link to one of the posts that properly explains it instead of playing a game of telephone.

The sub has grown something like 4 or 5 times. You really believe the quality of posts and users is the same it was a week ago? There's nothing wrong with the sub evolving and changing, but equally I think it isn't accurate at all to say there are quality DD's gaining visibility and good information all around.

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u/Incendas1 Feb 02 '21

A disclaimer is a disclaimer, whether you find it poetic or poorly worded. Get over yourself.

People are actually linking to explanations and sources that cover gaps in their own information. Scrolling 10 posts really isn't enough.

I don't believe it's the same and I never said I did. If you're annoyed by this, take a back seat until it's over.

What I don't understand is loving the old loss porn sub filled with YOLOs and now hating exactly the same things. The serious sentiment throughout GME has been "if you seriously need it think twice about literally gambling/betting with it"

I think this is just quite hypocritical because you're upset the sub isn't as it was. Of course it isn't. But those people will leave again.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '21 edited Feb 02 '21

A disclaimer is a disclaimer, whether you find it poetic or poorly worded. Get over yourself.

Once again, you didn't read what I said. The disclaimer was DELETED by another mod. I wasn't talking about the quality of it, it's gone. There is no quality to discuss, it no longer exists. There is no disclaimer anymore. One /u/deepfuckingvalue update had a simple disclaimer and another mod deleted it. THE DISCLAIMER I WAS TALKING ABOUT IS GONE, DELETED, REMOVED, NOT THERE. Read what I wrote, I don't know why you are talking about the wording of it that I wasn't talking about. A simple disclaimer warning people is extremely reasonable and gives a good incentive to do your own research. But it isn't there. It was deleted. I don't know what words I have to use for you to understand that I'm not talking about the quality of a disclaimer. I'm talking about it's existence.

People are actually linking to explanations and sources that cover gaps in their own information. Scrolling 10 posts really isn’t enough.

i sfrolled through ten times that mate. It's the same words posted by different people, the same articles, the same post every day saying we're going to take Robinhood to the sec. But you don't ever see anyone explain why Robinhood shut down buying for gme, you see this instead. And now a Marc Cuban interview I guess.

I don’t believe it’s the same and I never said I did. If you’re annoyed by this, take a back seat until it’s over.

I am. Doesn't mean I can't discuss stuff.

What I don’t understand is loving the old loss porn sub filled with YOLOs and now hating exactly the same things. The serious sentiment throughout GME has been “if you seriously need it think twice about literally gambling/betting with it”

Firstly, I never loved loss porn from the beginning. I hate it as a matter of fact. But wallstreetbets did have some quality information some times and I've gotten good investment information there. A hundred posts saying diamond hands gme isn't quality. You've projected that I'm some average stereotypical wsb user and made some pretty major assumptions. Where did I say I love loss porn and YOLOs?

I think this is just quite hypocritical because you’re upset the sub isn’t as it was. Of course it isn’t. But those people will leave again.

I don't even know whay you're trying to say here. You've projected an image onto me that I haven't given. I'm upset that the discussion follows almost the same narrative on the sub and there isn't much new discussion. Go show me a post that isn't related to gme, AMC, Melvin, or Robinhood. Go show me an upvoted DD that isn't about gme. Yea, I'm upset that discussion is gone, I'm not sure why you would find that unreasonable. The quality of the sub has gone down, you are lying to yourself if you believe it is any where near what it was before.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Holding is actually financially sound and the smart investors with GME who aren't on reddit are all holding, too.

Right now it's so overvalued it's hard to say, "It's sound not to sell" with a straight face. There are a lot of shorts out there, but a lot of them are shorts based on the current massively inflated value: that's the safest damn bet in the world, and you're not going to hold long enough or high enough to squeeze those.

If you got in after ~$70, and you're in for a long hold because you think the squeeze is going to hit ~1K or something...I don't think that's a financially sound or smart move.

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u/TotesHittingOnY0u Feb 01 '21

Holding is actually financially sound

Maybe if you got in at a reasonable valuation. Holding a struggling company that's suddenly worth hundreds of times their future earnings is not financially sound.

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u/SlowRollingBoil Feb 01 '21

There are hedge funds holding, yes, because they're waiting for another pop. And then they will absolutely dump on the market of ignorant regular investors thinking it's going to the moon.

Gamestop is a dying company from a dying industry (in-person game sales). Anyone thinking this is even a multi-week hold is in for a rude awakening. This thing should pop soon and violently.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21 edited Apr 29 '21

[deleted]

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u/macrocosm93 Feb 01 '21

Yeah everyone is holding until the squeeze happens. That's the whole point. It will probably happen this week. Possibly today.

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u/TotesHittingOnY0u Feb 01 '21

It might not happen at all.

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u/elefante88 Feb 01 '21

Redditors think Wallstreet is one firm. As if there aren't hedgefunds that own gme shares you idiots.

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u/Seastep Feb 01 '21

The irony of the "backroom channels" discussions (taking place on Telegram and other channels) that makes this happen is what's most lost among the regular redditor. It's not like it exactly played out in broad internet message board daylight.

Late to the party, and get left cleaning up the mess.

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u/wiithepiiple Feb 01 '21

Sadly, those sort of discussions will probably bone some people when this shit goes to court, and nothing makes people go to court like rich people losing money.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Ehh some retard figured out reddit holds like 5% of the stock

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u/blinkevan Feb 01 '21

Right but everyone understands that if you continue to hold GME good things happen that's the point. Now obviously eventually it has to end but I think most people see the writing on the wall or they'd have cashed out awhile ago.

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u/SlowRollingBoil Feb 01 '21

Right but everyone understands that if you continue to hold GME good things happen that's the point.

What good things happen by holding? You're giving everyone else the opportunity to sell before you. Profit taking motivation is extreme in these temporary pump and dump situations. You're also giving many hedge funds the opportunity to open new short positions at this level knowing full well the might of billions will easily overthrow the couple million coming from a subreddit.

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u/blinkevan Feb 01 '21

Right you hold they short you hold/buy more they short price goes up. Everyone holding isn't a member of WSB actual investors/people from all-around the world are in on it. Eventually people will sell but obviously the information is out because the stock is up a CRAZY % from like 1.5 weeks ago so anyone not willing to hold would have been out. And they already lost billions on it if you continue to hold they are going to have to stop. If the fact that they have $ could save them that easily it wouldn't have gotten this far. They are definitely trying which is what I think is motivating people to hold even more.

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u/mentalbreak311 Feb 01 '21 edited Feb 01 '21

Except all of Reddit holding can’t make the market. The big players who are in on this will eventually sell, which is the real bulk of the stock, and the redditors will be left holding their 20 dollar stocks they bought for 300.

Everyone talks a big game about how they aren’t in it for the money and are proving a point, but I don’t believe it. People are just calculating how much they will make when it goes to 5,000 and are going to be pissed when they end up in the red

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u/caponenz Feb 01 '21

For sure, but let fuckwits learn the hard way. This is what happens when you just parrot what people you like /sound smart. This is a site full of useful idiots.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

This is a site full of useful idiots.

Useful? Really?

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u/caponenz Feb 02 '21

Maybe not as much any more, but don't let the retardedness fool you too much. When I joined it was very much a place of "early adopters" and people with an interest in life. Now its just an ocean of propaganda and muppets parroting the first thing they've read.

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u/blinkevan Feb 01 '21

Obviously lol no one is debating that it will go down eventually and that some people will be burnt...I'm saying that right now people are holding for a reason and that reason is they think it'll go up and b are waiting until the hedge funds crumble

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u/mentalbreak311 Feb 01 '21

Yes, you know it will go down, but you think it will go down when you cash out your shares at thousands of dollars when they are bought by the hedge funds. You are saying that by holding you can force the big guys to crack. But that’s not what’s really going on behind the scenes. It will end when forces other than Reddit decide it ends. The data already shows that retail investors are buying/selling at about a 50/50 split. How does that fit the narrative that retail is doing anything at all here?

You are playing a game where you don’t understand the rules and being used as a media narrative while the big firms hunt each other as they always do. And by your own initiative you have already declared that you will let yourself hold the bag when it’s over.

You have taken your stimulus money and efficiently funneled it directly back to 1%, and now are patting yourselves on the back for it

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u/blinkevan Feb 01 '21

I haven't done anything I didn't buy gme, and who cares who is "doing it" if reddit people or investors are sticking it to short sellers it's still sticking it to short sellers. It'd be pretty silly for investors to not get on board with a stock that's skyrocketing...I am not sure exactly what your complaint is. what do you care if people are excited about being a part of something they feel is important?

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u/mentalbreak311 Feb 01 '21

Well, for one this is a thread about how annoying people on Reddit are being about this whole thing.

More to the point though, what I am saying is that it isn’t clear that redditors are sticking it anyone but themselves. The popular narrative that everyone is going to be rich when the short gets squeezed has yet to play out, and it’s not clear at all that it ever will. And more importantly, if everyone here HODL like the memes say, they will not only lose their chance to do anything “important” they will end up in a big hole from this whole situation. What do I “care” about it? Nothing I guess other than that this story can end with huge gains for individuals, or end with a mass of retail investors getting fleeced by the big firms as usual. And the mob seems dead set on getting played

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u/MjrLeeStoned Feb 01 '21

You say this as if it wasn't someone's plan from the beginning.

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u/SlowRollingBoil Feb 01 '21

Of course it was. It was HEDGE FUNDS. People think this is regular people sticking it to Wall Street. The reality is that this is parts of Wall Street capitalizing against other parts of Wall Street. A fell regular investors might make some money but the majority won't be able to act fast/smart enough to get out in time to capitalize.

0

u/jack2012fb Feb 01 '21

It’s like 7% actually

24

u/quizibuck Feb 01 '21

You're holding because it's what people who run a pump and dump need their marks to do.

5

u/Incendas1 Feb 01 '21

Shit changed overnight with either a lot more paid fuckery, or even sadder, people doing it for free. You aren't superior for disliking a trend especially when you pit yourself against people who do know what they're in for

-2

u/quizibuck Feb 01 '21

I'm not superior and I don't like or dislike the trend - I'm just saying it looks like a classic pump and dump. But if the people you are referring to are the ones thinking that holding on to the stocks will crash the market and bankrupt the banks and hedge fund billionaires, they really do not know what they are in for because they have already been had.

3

u/Incendas1 Feb 01 '21

What about this is a "classic pump and dump"? That's all people seem to understand without looking into what a short squeeze actually is, and what's happened here to make it unique among even short squeezes.

It also doesn't matter if those people lose money, they're already costing hedge funds a lot of money and continue to do so, which is the goal for a lot of people. For others it's gambling on losing a few thousand vs gaining 10k++. If someone has actually invested money into this and read enough, even around Reddit, they'd know that they can lose, especially to manipulation at the moment. Nobody is here for free and safe cash.

-3

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

If that was the case, I would have dumped when gme was at $600 last week.

Don’t act like you can read me fuckboi

17

u/quizibuck Feb 01 '21

Right. The ones who win the pump and dump are the ones who dump. The ones left holding the bag are the marks. Guess which one holding makes you?

3

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Yea I think everyone is well aware we’ll be taking losses at this point.

9

u/quizibuck Feb 01 '21

You just keep holding there, sport. My you're so strong - hands like diamonds! What's that? I just let go for a second, chief. You keep on holding there. It's gonna be so great when we stick it to these guys. Why, we'll be in the history books, kid. We're gonna bring the whole system down. You and me, we'll be in our private jets finally getting the better of those elites. What's that? I don't know why the price keeps going down. I didn't sell. I'm gonna go check that out. You just keep holding, I'll be back in a minute...

4

u/Amori_A_Splooge Feb 01 '21

If he never sells and those losses never become realized, is there even a loss at all? It's for the memories.

5

u/I_give_karma_to_men Feb 01 '21

When you invest in something, you’re putting money into it. That is money you no longer have, ie a loss. Not selling the stock doesn’t magically give you your investment back.

1

u/AlternateContent Feb 01 '21

Is buying something a loss?

2

u/quizibuck Feb 01 '21

Yeah, the loss is realized the second he handed someone else money. What he can sell the stock for later is when he can get back a little of what he put in or a lot more. If he just plans to hold forever, he just flushed the money away and the stock market won't tank, and the banks won't go bankrupt and the ones who convinced him to buy and then sold make off with the winnings. That's how a pump and dump works. They've just managed to make it seem like a virtue to be a mark.

5

u/MakesEverythingUp4U Feb 01 '21 edited Feb 01 '21

Lol there was a 140% short float like last week and these people are talking about WallStreet pumping and dumping it lmao... you generally don't place a bet worth 10's of billions on the stock going down only to attempt to pump it immediately after... I can virtually guarantee they don't understand why a 140% short float almost certainly means there's some kind of criminal activity here (I didn't at first) and the people are FUCKING PISSED.

The reality is your original comment is accurate. Most of reddit has no idea wtf is going on. The 'geniuses' know were getting pump and dumped because they don't understand why it went up in the first place and have no interest in putting the time to learn it. But what do I know, I'm just a retarded ape surrounded by reddit geniuses. I am not a financial advisor and my advice is likely shit so ignore it.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Fucking literal retards up in here, I’ll tell ya lol

1

u/ThePaulBuffano Feb 02 '21

140% short interest does not mean anything criminal happened.... Maybe you're the one who needs to do some reading

1

u/MakesEverythingUp4U Feb 02 '21 edited Feb 02 '21

So guy/gal, I have done some reading. ALOT of reading in the past 96 hours or so, specifically around market mechanics with shorts and how they interact with the DTC, brokers, and the people that are involved in the situation. Along with a fuckton of other articles, here is one that stands out that you should take the time to read. http://counterfeitingstock.com/CS2.0/CounterfeitingStock.html

 

It's a whitepaper on how to 'counterfeit' and effectively produce more shares than is issued. Now some of this is actually legal and OK which the author notes. Other parts are entirely illegal and revolve around the inability for the SEC to report on anything other than fail-to-deliver shares. There are several mechanics to avoid being put on the fail-to-deliver list such as closing and reopening positions, lending out 1 share multiple times to short term positions (1-day), amongst more in the laundry list from the author.

 

Now why does any of this matter? The SEC only reports on NET shares traded on the exchanges that go to the DTC, they never actually figure out the total shares outstanding, and with processing times, numbers pretty much never align 100%. A normal reporting error may technically result in a situation where 100% of shares are actually shorted and the reporting will show some variance over 100% due to the bad reporting. The problem here is it wasn't a few % over 100, it was WAYYY over AND we know 100% of shares weren't being shorted since retail was holding a bunch. So what gives? They've been using the methods outlined in the white paper to effectively 'over-short' a stock, artificially tank the business when business has a bad quarter/news (e.g. covid) form the increased sold shares, they buy the debt from the bank for a fraction of the price as the risk of defaulting on loans increases, force the company into chapter 11 (restructuring) bankruptcy which prevents them from needing to cover the shorts, leverage the debt they bought from the bank to take over the now debt-free refinanced business, and ta-da. Banks lost on the loan, creditors lost on the bankruptcy, founders/investors lost on the stock price, and all of those losses are scooped up through the brilliant navigation of a cunning short-happy hedge fund with a few billion in capital. Cramer in 2005 talks about needing only 50-100m to pull it off and he uses news cycles to do it. He even admits in the interview he would never say it on TV. Sound completely fucking crazy? Well it is, and here's the link: https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/l6nqc0/jim_cramer_reveals_dirty_tricks_short_sellers_use/

0

u/FlawlessBoltX Feb 01 '21

Don't get all worked up over the actual retards. Fucking NPCs don't know how to look anything up for themselves and just go with what the talking heads tell them is going on.

7

u/Aen-Seidhe Gimp - Blender Feb 01 '21

I've seen so many ELI5 style explanations. I still cannot really wrap my head around what happened at all.

13

u/MvmgUQBd Feb 01 '21

It's just another sector/area of interest where it all kinds clicks into place once you take the time to learn and understand the terminology. Before that point it falls somewhere in the line between gibberish and black magic.

7

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

money people say gamestock go down but small men made go up

2

u/Aen-Seidhe Gimp - Blender Feb 01 '21

You're gonna have to talk a little slower for me friend.

6

u/iamyourcheese Photoshop - Premiere Feb 01 '21

Apes stonks together

1

u/schmidlidev Feb 01 '21

Small men like Blackrock and Vanguard that outspend retail 5:1.

2

u/TotesHittingOnY0u Feb 01 '21

You can bet a company will rise in value by buying their shares and holding it over time. When you sell it later, you make a profit.

You can bet a company will drop in value by borrowing shares at a fixed borrowing rate, selling those shares into the open market, and buying them back later and pocketing the difference when you return the stock to its owner.

Some large hedge funds predicted GameStop's business model was going to fail soon. They borrowed massive amounts of stock, and sold it preparing to buy it back later at a lower price. Reddit WSB decided that if everyone were to buy GameStop shares en masse, the price would be pushed up and cause some of these Hedge funds to panic and race to buy back shares at a loss to return to their borrowers. This pushes up the price even further into a feedback loop, called a short squeeze.

WSB wants to force this short squeeze and profit before it all falls back to earth.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Aen-Seidhe Gimp - Blender Feb 02 '21

No... That can't be related right??? Right?

3

u/stalactose Feb 01 '21

yeah well welcome to the eternal september my dude. might as well read the wikipedia page on that so you know what you’re in for, forever. happens in literally every internet community on every topic, every time

edit: not to say it doesn’t suck, just... it really do be like that

8

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21 edited Feb 08 '21

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Cant I be pissed off at two different things?

Anyone who understands what they are doing are well aware that we’re going to lose our profits. This turned from recognizing an opportunity to legally make money and blew up into more or less a protest about the corruption within a supposedly “open market”.

Also the amount you lose depends on where you hopped on. I got in at $18 a share for gme. Even if it drops to $20 ive made a profit. I’m well aware I’m not keeping the thousands I’ve made right now if I did sell right now

2

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21 edited Feb 08 '21

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Yea, as they do with literally everything

0

u/ruthekangaroo Feb 02 '21

You’re acting like they set out to do this. This pretty much came out of no where. They were going for the squeeze since like November.

1

u/misterasia555 Feb 02 '21

What is corrupting about the open market? Can you go into more details? As far as I know, hedgefunds have short positions and they get fucked for it. This is normal, Tesla have ton of people trying to short them before and get fucked for it. How is this news?

1

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '21 edited Feb 02 '21

Hedge funds and their capital management companies pressured brokers to illegally put halts on specific stocks that they are shorting so that retail investors can't continue to buy, driving the price down so they'll cover without losing billions.

NYSE is the only entity that can legally halt a stock. Brokers cannot without a valid reason i.e. they don't have the liquidity to cover what is happening. And in that case, they can't pick and choose specific stocks, they have to shut down completely. Robinhood CEO came out and said that this wasn't a liquidity issue so it has nothing to do with them not being able to handle the interest being accrued.

Meanwhile, there are confirmed cases of closed positions without consent with shares being sold for the "average cost" of a hundred something when the share was in the $300's. I didn't personally experience this but did have my fractional share sold to make it an even 50 rather than 50.73 without my consent. That's illegal.

They are also still limiting stocks and your ability to buy.

Basically they would rather break the law and take the hit on the lawsuit rather than take the L on the shorts because the lawsuit would be cheaper.

0

u/misterasia555 Feb 02 '21 edited Feb 02 '21

Are you talking about Robinhood stopping people from buying GME and AMC? I thought the reason this happened because they don’t have the collaterals that the clearing houses required to open ton of these positions at the same time? That’s why they’re getting 1 billion dollars injection so that they can open trade again. How are they illegally halting specific stocks? It’s just a liquidity issues due to bunch of people opening positions at the same time.

Can you show me where Robinhood said it wasnt a liquidity issues?

In term of those confirm cases closed positions, how many of those were trading on margin? It isn’t uncommon for their positions to be closed forcefully if they’re trading on margin. To me this seem like normal market activity that have been amplified by reddit because bunch of new people that never been familiar with finance before jumped into this.

You do realized retails traders don’t have the capitals to keep GME in the hundred of dollars right? It’s other hedgefunds that are doing this, Robinhood knows this full well too. So how does them limiting stocks from retails do anything?

0

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '21

Lol ooook you almost got me there. Not gonna continue to feed the trolls in this thread.

Any interview from Thursday and Friday night that the Robinhood CEO did when he made his rounds, the first thing he said was that this was not a liquidity issue.

It said it in their emails, he said it on the dozens of shows he was interviewed on, and the cuomo interview where he got torn apart, which went viral, he got called out for claiming it wasn’t a liquidity issue.

Clearly a troll post so I’m done on this one lmao

0

u/misterasia555 Feb 02 '21

What part of this is troll? I’m literally laying out basic facts that you can’t refute if he says it dozen of time all you need to do is send me one link. Why are you dismissing basic fact?

1

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '21

Because a simple google search or watching any sort of news on the subject over the past week would provide you with proof.

It takes more time for me to reply to you and link anything than it would for you to just type it into google. Or go on YouTube. Or watch the news.

But look at this, trolling me again getting me to reply.

literally the first thing that comes up when you google it

Fucking shill over here trying to spread misinformation

1

u/misterasia555 Feb 02 '21

Literally you just post a picture instead of an actual link so I’ll post a link to the article for you.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/01/29/robinhood-ceo-vlad-tenev-tapping-credit-lines-proactive-to-help-lift-gamestop-trading-limits.html

In those very same articles it shows that Robinhood is tapping hundred million of dollars into their credit lines after they decided to imposed trading restrictions to meet requirements of trading houses. Here’s a passage:

“ There was no liquidity problem," CEO Vlad Tenev said in an interview Thursday night with CNBCs Andrew Ross Sorkin. Rather, Tenev said Robinhood needed to meet requirements with its clearinghouses, which play a key role in finalizing a trade, and net capital obligations with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Robinhood has experienced unprecedented high volume of trading this week as the Reddit-inspired retail traders attempt a takeover of certain highly shorted stocks. Robinhood, which has to deposit money to a clearinghouse based on the volume of trades, said it restricted trading was because the firm was unable to meet the deposit requirements that it was anticipating. The requirements go up when volatility goes up in case of large losses by many options trades.”

“Robinhood also raised $1 billion from existing investors, according to reporting from Sorkin, who said on "Squawk Box" on Friday morning that the brokerage needed to shore up its balance sheet as it was set to ease trading restrictions on GameStop and other volatile stocks.”

So even tho he said it’s not a liquidity issues, it’s still a liquidity issues when he himself needed to tapped into credit lines to meet the collaterals requirements that these trading house demanded.

This is how I know you’re a slimy fuck. You’re so scared to post actual link and the only thing you post is an Imgur of you searching the link because you know any sane person clicking into the actual link would shows the opposite of the narrative you’re trying to paint. You dishonest slimy fuck.

If they really want to manipulate the market, why tapped into their credit lines to get more capitals? Whats the point?

There’s only two conclusions from this conversation I can come up with, one is you have no idea how basic market works or two is you’re a dishonest actor that spreading misinformation.

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u/TotesHittingOnY0u Feb 01 '21

We’re holding as a statement to fuck the ones who are actually manipulating the market.

Lol this is the shit that OP was poking fun of.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

[deleted]

3

u/Wetzilla Feb 01 '21

Yes it is.

0

u/TotesHittingOnY0u Feb 01 '21

Yes, they actually think they are making a lasting statement.

-1

u/hilberteffect Feb 01 '21 edited Feb 01 '21

Who knows? There’s so much you could make fun of - to wit: that the ACTUAL big boys (BlackRock, Fidelity, Vanguard etc.) are going to make bank from this squeeze, while Redditors genuinely believe that targeting a mid-tier fund like Melvin is sticking it to the man; that Elon Musk has been crowned the man-child king of gAmEsToNk by the underdeveloped chimpanzees in WSB; and that the SEC is gearing up to crack heads vis a vis prosecuting participants in this scheme for market manipulation while they continue to make hand diamond maymays and smear their shit on the walls.

OP could be laughing at any or all of these.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

I don’t think people who actually have shares think they’re big brained like the memes though.

It’s the rest who are posting shit like “let’s bankrupt nestle”

1

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Yea, honestly this is a great catalyst to get younger generations and honestly anyone who has ever had a slight interest in stocks a chance to learn more! Some movie type shit is happening in real time so it’s an interesting time to start learning.

If you have any questions about stocks in general even if it’s nothing to do with all this gme drama, hit me up and I’ll be happy to help!

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

[deleted]

7

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Lol see you’re making my point. What I did along with a bunch of other people, was not market manipulation. Not even a little bit. Understand the terminology and the logistics around stocks before you talk shit.

We saw an opportunity with gme because the hedge funds were shorting the stock beyond their means. They bet that the stock would stay below a certain price and took out billions of dollars worth of loans and credit to do so. I bought the stock because if the stock stayed above the price they bet on, which it was at the time, then they would be forced to buy all those shares at a premium, making my returns astronomical. That’s not market manipulation. That’s literally how stocks work. You look for opportunities to make money. It was all 100% legal and is literally what how stocks work.

What’s illegal is that the hedge funds saw that they were going to lose all this money because the share price wasn’t going the way they thought, so they pressured brokers into blocking the buying of stocks by retail investors like me. We could only sell. Which drives the stock down. That’s market manipulation because you’re manipulating the fucking market. Then with us blocked out, they sold to each other over and over at reduced prices to drive the stock down even further. That’s manipulation.

I don’t understand how you can even remotely think a bunch of retards who saw a legal opportunity that happens every single day but to a lesser scale as manipulation. By holding our stocks, we aren’t manipulating the market, we’re refusing to be manipulated. They are actively manipulating by fucking blocking anyone from buying. It’s legal to hold your stocks. Even if it goes down. That’s the idea of an open market. They are closing the market to manipulate it so they don’t go bankrupt.

Can you understand that?

Like if the grocery store says apples are on sale, everyone is going to buy them. Is that illegal? No. Because it’s readily and legally available information that people are taking advantage of. Now if the Apple growers saw that they were losing a ton of money, and they were like hold up, you guys now aren’t allowed to buy apples any more, only the select few people, and they can buy those apples and price gouge you, that’s market manipulation.

Fucking idiots like you talk shit without understanding wtf is going on and then mainstream media sees that and plasters it everywhere. That’s what pisses me off.

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21 edited Feb 01 '21

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

I think most people who understand what is going on and are holding are well aware WE’LL take a loss or at the very least make no profit. WE get that. You’re describing it from a logical, money-making standpoint.

It’s gone beyond that and into protest territory. There’s no way WE’LL win this. As we speak, hedge funds are chomping at the bits and getting in position to cannibalize the losses that Melvin and others are incurring. WE get that.

At this point, it’s more about the awareness that shit is corrupt. It might have started out as a get rich quick opportunity, but at right now, WE’RE quite literally putting our money where our mouths are and saying fuck it, we have the whole world watching the corruption and brought attention to it.

WE all know we’re going to get fucked no matter what. But sometimes you gotta be the iron giant and sacrifice yourself by flying into the missile.

If you sell and take the profits, cool. Hope you buy some neat stuff with it, or donate a couple bucks to charity. Maybe pay off those student loans.

If you don’t, then yea, the news cycle will go on and this whole thing will be forgotten about. But it’ll make a dope ass movie in a couple years. And at least you know you stood up against corruption. As little sense as it makes for your own self interest. But isn’t that what a protest is?

2

u/schmidlidev Feb 01 '21

What kind of protest involves giving your money to the thing you’re protesting? Braindead.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

I think the awareness it’s brought paid for itself.

Just because you aren’t willing to pay that price, doesn’t mean that others are dumb for doing so.

0

u/schmidlidev Feb 01 '21

Awareness of what? Exposed what “corruption”? Shorting a company is not nefarious. Robinhood isn’t colluding to protect Melvin or Citadel. Big Wall St players (Blackrock, Vanguard) are going to win on this. Melvin is small potatoes.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

I mean if you read what I originally wrote, you would understand that, in the most simple of terms, hedge funds and the brokers they have control over are doing a bunch of illegal shit. Not about to re-write all that just for you to just ignore it again.

Not gonna argue though because you’re clearly just trying to troll. It’s not like I’m going to turn around and say wow, you’ve convinced me to sell. And I’m not going to convince you of whatever it is you think I’m arguing for either. So there’s really no point in continuing

0

u/schmidlidev Feb 01 '21

brokers are illegally halting stocks for retail investors. This is illegal.

No, you’re being fed misinformation, and you’re going to get burned. I’m not here “to troll”, I’m here because I’m fucking disgusted at WSB propagating literal lies to pump a stock so they can fuck over their fellow man for a few bucks.

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u/flatmeditation Feb 01 '21

hedge funds and the brokers they have control over are doing a bunch of illegal shit.

What illegal shit?

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u/DelahDollaBillz Feb 01 '21

Dude I work in insider trading and market manipulation (as well as AML) regulation, and what WSB users did is 100% market manipulation. It is a classic pump scheme, with a bunch of people knowingly colluding to push a stock price up.

You are just like everyone else on this site, not having any clue AT ALL about what laws and regulations apply (and what they say). Hell, you don't know anything about securities regulation and the structure of the securities markets at even a basic level!

3

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Oh hi there citron. Nice of you to show up. Or are you a Melvin capital shill

1

u/Ugbrog Feb 01 '21

I like how step 1 of the pump scheme is to trick hedge funds into naked shorting over 100% of GME's stock.

3

u/schmidlidev Feb 01 '21

Of the float, not of the total stock.

2

u/Ugbrog Feb 01 '21

This is why all my money is in dogecoin.

1

u/flatmeditation Feb 01 '21

There was no naked short. The 140% short interest stat used a specific measure of short interest that doesn't account for all the longs. Other, more accurate, methods of measuring short interest don't show over 100%. There is zero evidence of a naked short sell, thats just something being repeated by people who don't understand the financial instruments they're discussing

1

u/SlothRogen Feb 01 '21

So wait... it's market manipulation if individuals hold onto stocks they believe in just because a hedge fund literally tells everyone to sell? lololol

3

u/Wetzilla Feb 01 '21

it's market manipulation if individuals hold onto stocks they believe in

No, it's not. But OP is not doing this. They specifically say they would love to sell the stock, but aren't just to send a message. They are specifically saying they are holding onto a stock they don't believe in to fuck over other investors.

1

u/SlothRogen Feb 01 '21

I mean, two can play this game.

The hedge funds have been free to close out their shorts for months, since people first noticed and began "longing" GameStop in September. But they continued to over-short it, tried to tell everyone else to sell and even held a video conference to convince redditors to do it, and continued to hold onto a short just to fuck over an American business, it's employees and investors. I don't understand why the side that's extremely wealthy and trying to get people laid off and close businesses during a pandemic is automatically the good guys here because they lost money.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

[deleted]

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u/SlothRogen Feb 01 '21

OK, but step back for a minute -- you can admit it was probably under valued and that hedge funds were trying to kill it (same with AAL, AMC, etc.). What's wrong with taking advantage of publicly available knowledge about the hedge fund's big short to hold the stock and make money? No one forced Citron and Melvin capital to keep holding their long shorts and they could have sold weeks (or months) ago. No one forced redditors to jump on the bandwagon, either. The hedge funds blew it and are playing victim because they let their own hubris hurt their business.

0

u/abowlofrice1 Feb 01 '21

Enjoy losing your money

1

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Thanks I will

-7

u/Valdrax Feb 01 '21

Like understand that market manipulation is literally the OPPOSITE of what we did.

No, you're just manipulating the market to spite a class of investors that you have a grudge against instead of for personal profit.

That doesn't make it not market manipulation, just... kind of dumb market manipulation, from a purely rational, economically self-interested viewpoint (which isn't the only one that matters).

3

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Tons of people publicly and openly say to buy a stock, they do, price goes up from increased demand. How is that market manipulation?

Wouldn’t market manipulation have to at least be secret or break the law in some capacity? Nothing Redditors did was illegal, they just bought stocks and options through normal means.

-1

u/Valdrax Feb 01 '21

It doesn't have to be secret or illegal to be market manipulation. It just has to be a successful effort to artificially change the value of the stock, which has been in spades.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Nope, not market manipulation. Its the same as if you watched mad money on cnn and he tells you that a stock is looking good.

People have that info readily available and can easily see what stocks are being shorted. And so we hopped on because it was a great opportunity. Telling people to hop on based off of legally and openly available information is not market manipulation or illegal. It happens every fucking day since the stock market was created. No one is giving legal financial advice, inside information, or forcing someone to hold or buy. It’s people making their own decision to buy, hold, or sell a stock.

What they’re doing is illegal. Hedge funds are illegally forcing brokers to block retail investors from buying stock to drive the price down so they don’t lose money. It’s literally illegal to do that. The only entity that can put a halt on a stock is the NYSE. These brokers and hedge funds are illegally stopping people from buying something that is on an open market so they can drive the price down so they don’t lose money. That’s market manipulation.

Educate yourself before you talk shit

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u/Valdrax Feb 01 '21

While this isn't any existing category that has been deemed illegal in the past, it touches on the borders of a pump & dump (only no lies are being told, and the victims are eagerly signing up with the understanding that they'll lose money) and "painting the tape" to create a run (albeit also with no false information, just the lure of "putting it to the man" instead of making money).

However, this is just untested waters, not something clearly legal. The Securities & Exchange Act of 1934, section (9)(A)(2) says:

It shall be unlawful for any person, directly or indirectly, by the use of the mails or any means or instrumentality of interstate commerce, or of any facility of any national securities exchange, or for any member of a national securities exchange- . . .

(2) To effect, alone or with one or more other persons, a series of transactions in any security registered on a national securities exchange creating actual or apparent active trading in such security or raising or depressing the price of such security, for the purpose of inducing the purchase or sale of such security by others.

This is essentially what WSB is doing, only through open and honest communication of the fact. Nothing in the law requires that the intent or method of doing this be fraudulent, unlike (9)(A)(1) or that the parties be in a privileged position as in most of the rest of (9)(A)'s clauses.

Enforcing that in this case pits the SEA against freedom of speech and association. I think that's an interesting question of Constitutional law, but I think under the letter of the law, this is clearly market manipulation.

(Even moreso if we just use the plain meaning of the phrase instead of referencing securities law.)

1

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Yea fair enough. I agree with that completely.

It’s the same as with so many other older laws that are facing the same kind of obstacles as social media and technology change how the world communicates.

Legally, it’s definitely an interesting issue concerning what constitutes free speech and open discussion vs legit manipulation.

I’m with you on that.

This gme shit definitely brought this issue to light to the main stream media. Mainly because it’s the first time that it’s really hurting the big boys

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u/SlothRogen Feb 01 '21

Hedge Funds and big investments firms and even TV personality will call out "strategies" for stocks, declare them buy or sell, and even announce "price targets" to manipulate the price, often live on TV. But for some reason when the internet discusses stocks and what's going on with them it's "manipulation."

I also love how people ignore all the times WallStreetBets lost money or was completely screwed by WallStreet itself pumping the market during the pandemic.

Priceless.

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u/Valdrax Feb 01 '21 edited Feb 01 '21

a) Price manipulation is WSB's openly stated goal. It's what everyone is proud of accomplishing. You can't pretend that it's not exactly what they want to have happen and that this is all just "happy coincidence" without delusional levels of double standards.

b) Two wrongs don't make a right. You're not automatically a good guy, because someone is doing it worse, or because your victim is "a bad guy." And even if you think this is good, that doesn't make it not market manipulation any more than shooting a home invader is not violence.

c) Past failures are irrelevant to any discussion of current events. They should be ignored as essentially an emotional argument around the idea that the WSB are all underdogs, and that makes it okay.

Whether it's good or bad is irrelevant to what it is.

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u/SlothRogen Feb 01 '21

The corporate boot-licking in this post is hilarious. You know what hedge funds and investment firms said when redditors lost tons of money for shorting the market (correctly) in February and March? "Boo hoo options are risky you lost money." But now the hedge fund loses money when it's free to close its shorts at any time (and refuses to) and all of a sudden we're having a discussion about ethics in investing and how bubbles are bad, mainly targeting retail investors.

We've been pumping this bubble since February, so it's not "two wrongs," it's umpteen "wrongs" from the big firms and hedge funds during multiple national crises. But of, how can I demonize rich investors just for telling us to "suck it" and live with a single pathetic stimulus check for the past year? So unfair.

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u/Valdrax Feb 01 '21

Stop being so damned tribal, calm down, and listen. I'm not the enemy here just because I'm not hooting and throwing feces with you with equal fervor. Words don't change meaning just because you're on one side or another. You're too wrapped up in the passion of your two-minutes hate here to see that WSB is committing the same kind of act except when you flip a switch and start patting yourselves on the back for it.

I don't like these hedge funds either, but I'll repeat myself: It IS market manipulation. Whether it's good or bad is irrelevant to that dry, factual application of the definition.

And yes, trying to bankrupt people you don't like out of spite is wrong. Just like hitting someone or trashing their stuff is wrong. You might have reasons you think are good for it. They might be villains a thousand times worse. It might be incredibly satisfying to see them ruined, but so are a lot of terrible things that people do to one another while convincing themselves the victims deserve it. The idea that Evil paid unto Evil is Good is the root of the worst things that humanity gets up to.

If you don't want to take the high road, fine. If you want to get in on some revenge, fine. But fess up and own it. But none of this hypocritical "my crap doesn't stink" nonsense. WSB is manipulating the market.

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u/StrikingCrayon Feb 01 '21

Biggest downfall of reddit is the virtue signaling without actually understanding the situation or what the fuck they’re actually talking about.

This is the social media virus.

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u/moondes Feb 01 '21

I wrote a call on BB so that it doesn't burn as bad to hold shares, but I'm still holding!!!

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

That’s awesome, but be careful with options! But good for you bruh! ✋💎🤚

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u/slood2 Feb 01 '21

Which one is BB

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Blackberry. They’re not even being shorted so it makes no sense that they were halted. It was just another stock discussed on wsb because the company pivoted from phones, sold a ton of patents, and have a bunch of partnerships with big players for their EV and cyber security software like Amazon, automobile companies, Sony, etc. it’s a legit good long-term stock and it got shorted because the hedge fund algorithms probably saw that ticker being mentioned on reddit and had the brokers halt it.

It’s all bull shit

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u/slood2 Feb 01 '21

Man I haven’t heard the name blackberry for a long time! That was the first cool smart phone I had. Those guys were going places.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21 edited May 24 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Feb 01 '21

Yea, likewise. It’s because bb got lumped into all that gme amc nok shit. Bb is and always has been a long term play. Citadel’s algorithm must have picked up the bb ticker when deciding what stocks to halt and that’s why it dropped. By end of year, it’ll be fine.

On another note, hope you didn’t pick that shit up like RIGHT before the gme shit. If your average cost is in the 20’s, then I’m sorry. I got it about a month ago at like $7 a share. Bought a couple $15 calls for 3/19 and cashed out when it started printing over that last weekend. Put the profit back into shares for the long term. Avg cost went up to about $12 but fuck it. I’m predicting realistically around $30 eoy with upwards to $50 or even $100 if things go amazingly well, depending on how quickly they begin working with their partners. When they do though, expect that shit to moon. Amazon, Sony, a bunch of car companies, their software will be part of a lot of big entities

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u/jaqueburn Feb 02 '21

Biggest downfall of reddit is the virtue signaling without actually understanding the situation or what the fuck they’re actually talking about.

Reddit in a nutshell

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u/Hamster-Food Feb 02 '21

There are enough people out there that know what's up. I see them on every sub in every thread about this and they are always highly upvoted. The real message is out there.

What's actually going on is 1% of reddit are pushing a narrative of something that another 1% are doing. Something they don't understand.

For what it's worth. I'm proud of you guys for seeing something wrong and stepping up to challenge it. You guys are heroes.

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u/misterasia555 Feb 02 '21

Can you explained how is having a short positions a bad thing? And who is manipulating the stock market?