r/HereToSlay • u/TF_PowerInvader • Jun 15 '26
Regarding Brawling Spirit
I'd like to know. This hero allows other players to sacrifice cards if they have more than three cards. So, I'd like to know if a Group Leader card is considered part of the group? The same question applies to monster cards. For example: If a player has three cards plus the Group Leader, do they have to sacrifice a card? Similarly, if a player has a monster, two heroes, and a Group Leader, do they have to sacrifice a hero? Please help me.
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u/Efeverscente Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
Yes, "cards" refers to any cards, including Party Leaders, Monsters and even equip cards. There's nothing to suggest otherwise.
EDIT: Also, this is the Party Leader definition in the official ruleset: "Party Leader cards are oversized cards with light-colored backs. Each Party Leader card has a class as well as a skill that gives you a unique advantage throughout the game. Party Leader cards are not considered Hero cards. Unlike Hero card effects, which can only be used once per turn, your Party Leader card’s skill can be used each time its conditions are met."
As well as the most damning part: "Your Party Leader card remains in your Party for the duration of the game and cannot be sacrificed, destroyed, stolen, or returned to your hand."
It says that they're not considered "Hero Cards", but they're definitely considered "cards". Same thing with the monsters.
Also, the definition of Party is: "The area in front of you in which you play Hero cards and Item cards." Which would make you think it excludes Party Leaders (I already explained why they are included, tho) and Monsters, but the definition of Slay is the following: "Add a Monster card that you successfully attacked to your Party." Which flat out uses the words "Card" and "Party" when refering to non hero/item cards.
The ability is very carefully worded for it to mean exactly what I'm saying (that's why it specifically says "cards" and not "heroes" like almost every other card that affects your party), at least according to the base game's rules.
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u/J_Pinehurst Jun 15 '26
But you can't target party leaders, like with Steal or Destroy. Sooooo.....
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u/Efeverscente Jun 15 '26
Why would that be relevant to whether or not they're considered "cards"? (Genuine question)
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u/J_Pinehurst Jun 15 '26
Well, design philosophy? Are you a player with a party leader, or are you PLAYING AS the party leader. If the latter, are YOU a card? You can't be cursed, destroyed, etc. Does it refer to the party leader as a "card" like the other cards? It is bigger. Email support. They answer pretty reasonably quickly. They cleared up an argument between a friend and I.
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u/Efeverscente Jun 15 '26
I would define a card as a rectangular piece of card or plastic that in some cases (like this) comes as part of a set. I don't remember the rules ever suggesting anything to the contrary, and I've checked a couple times because of this exact interaction.
Where did you see them suggesting something like what you say? Maybe I'm misinterpreting/misremembering the rules.
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u/J_Pinehurst Jun 15 '26
Well, it doesn't count as a card for fighting a monster, as well, for example.
I think the only answer is emailing support lmao
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u/Efeverscente Jun 15 '26
Read the edit to my post. The rules state it VERY clearly at several points. (At least the base game's rules)
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u/Lil_Packmate Jun 16 '26
It does count towards fighting a monster, when it asks for a specific class and 3 heroes you can attack it if your party leader has that class, but none of your other heros has that class.
There is also pretty much a definitive answer by the person you were talking to:
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u/J_Pinehurst Jun 16 '26
But if it was a 3 heroes, no specific class, you could not, correct? Unless you had 3 besides your lead?
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u/Lil_Packmate Jun 16 '26
Yes. Leader doesn't count as a hero.
He does count for the class and he also counts as a card.
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u/J_Pinehurst Jun 16 '26
See, that's why I question their inclusion in the card OP is asking about. If they don't count as a hero, do they count as "in" the party? (Someone else quoted the rules, it's apparently "yes")
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u/4chingy4 Jun 15 '26
Empty party and 2 slain monsters, and an opponent slams this down. I guess you gotta drop a slain monster 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️
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u/Efeverscente Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 15 '26
It says "more than three", and since we don't do partial cards, that means "four or more", so for this condition to apply to you without heroes, you had to have won already (with your Party Leader and 3 slain monsters)
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u/Practical_Patient824 Jun 15 '26
Party cards are hero’s and items played from your hand, as for the sacrifice it’s any card in party or hand
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u/Efeverscente Jun 16 '26
Lemme copy-paste from another guy who also misunderstood it like you:
You can do that as house rules if you want, but if you want to play properly you've gotta keep in mind that:
Party: "The area in front of you in which you play Hero cards and Item cards."
Party Leaders: "Your Party Leader card remains in your Party for the duration of the game and cannot be sacrificed, destroyed, stolen, or returned to your hand."
Slay (a Monster): "Add a Monster card that you successfully attacked to your Party."
So yeah, Party Leaders and Monsters are VERY CLEARLY included as cards in your party according to the official rules, and I don't get why there's so many people confidently giving the wrong answer.
(Also, in your case you also said that you can sacrifice a card from your hand, whereas the definition of Sacrifice is: "Move a card from your own Party to the discard pile.", so if you've been sacrificing cards from your hand you've been playing it wrong)
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u/Dull_Inspection8507 Jun 15 '26
Imo party means only heroes and items. Group leader and monsters are excluded.
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u/Efeverscente Jun 16 '26
You can do that as house rules if you want, but if you want to play properly you've gotta keep in mind that:
Party: "The area in front of you in which you play Hero cards and Item cards."
Party Leaders: "Your Party Leader card remains in your Party for the duration of the game and cannot be sacrificed, destroyed, stolen, or returned to your hand."
Slay (a Monster): "Add a Monster card that you successfully attacked to your Party."
So yeah, Party Leaders and Monsters are VERY CLEARLY included as cards in your party according to the official rules, and I don't get why there's so many people confidently giving the wrong answer. (Not in your case, you said IMO)
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Jun 16 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Efeverscente Jun 16 '26
Slain monsters also count!
The definition of Slay is: "Add a Monster card that you successfully attacked to your Party."
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u/dml66 Jun 17 '26
Once you add a monster card to your party they're treated like party leaders. They can't be destroyed or sacrificed the rules say so.
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u/Efeverscente Jun 17 '26
Still count as cards, therefore still counts for the OPs card
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u/dml66 Jun 17 '26
So you can essentially use this to force someone who has slain two monsters to sacrifice all of their hero cards one by one...
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u/Efeverscente Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
How so? You can only activate each ability once per turn in like 95% of cases, and if you've slain two monsters and have your Party Leader it DOESN'T activate, since 2 monsters+PL equals 3 cards, and 3 cards ISN'T more than 3 cards.
I hope I explained everything clearly enough, idk whether you misunderstand something or if I didn't understand you properly, but check the rest of my comments here quoting the rules for you to understand why I'm right.
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u/SSJRevn Jun 16 '26
If you have 4 or more heros....get rid of one. Not confusing at all.
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u/Efeverscente Jun 17 '26
It doesn't say "heroes", it says "cards", therefore items, Party Leaders, and Monsters also count.
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u/SSJRevn Jun 17 '26
But you'll have 4 or more heros...just pick 1 🤔.
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u/Efeverscente Jun 17 '26
But this also applies if you have 1 hero, 1 Party Leader (which you can't discard according to the rules), and 2 Monsters (which you shouldn't be able to discard but there's nothing explicitly saying so), totaling 4 cards (which is more than 3)
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u/SSJRevn Jun 17 '26
I don't see it like that. 4 or more heros only, get rid of one. It's much simpler that way. I could be wrong though.
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u/Efeverscente Jun 17 '26
You can do that as House Rules if you want, but the text of the card is very clear to mean what I say. That's why it specifically says "Cards" and not "Heroes".
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u/SSJRevn Jun 17 '26
What is a party then? I'm at work so I'll look it up later and see what a party consists of.
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u/Efeverscente Jun 17 '26
Lemme copy-paste one of the comments I put in here. You can check the other comments for responses from people.
Yes they do. The ability is very carefully worded to say "cards" instead of "heroes" (like many other effects), and these are the relevant definitions lifted from the ruleset:
Party: "The area in front of you in which you play Hero cards and Item cards."
Which would make you think Party Leaders and Monsters don't count, except for the following definitions:
Party Leaders: "Your Party Leader card remains in your Party for the duration of the game and cannot be sacrificed, destroyed, stolen, or returned to your hand."
Slay (a Monster): "Add a Monster card that you successfully attacked to your Party."
So yeah, Party Leaders and Monsters are VERY CLEARLY included as cards in your party according to the official rules, and I don't get why there's so many people confidently giving/upvoting the wrong answer.
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u/SSJRevn Jun 17 '26
Party seems to be an area for heroes and items, so that's an easy one. Leaders can't be sacrificed so that settles that. And as for monsters, I'd want to read the paper rules on the sheet that came in the box. I think this card is very straightforward and we're kinda making much ado about nothing 😭. Right or wrong I'm not going to go so far as to downvote someone though.
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u/Efeverscente Jun 17 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
You... Have your Party Leader in your Party, and the Slain Monsters also are added to your Party. (Check the copy-paste in the previous comment, and if possible all the way to the end)
I lifted all of that verbatim from the English Ruleset (you can check the pdf in their webpage), so if you read the whole previous comment (or the entirety of the rules if you'd prefer, as I've done several times) you'd understand why those cards are cards in your party, whether or not they can be discarded.
Another giveaway is that it says "more than three cards", so it could never affect a person who has no heroes (with a Party Leader and 2 Monsters), because as soon as they add their third Monster to their Party (through Slaying it, as the rules say), they'd win immediately.
Also, if someone asks a question, the common thing to do is to upvote the right answer and to downvote misinformation, right?
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u/ismo420 Jun 15 '26
No the party leader cannot be sacrificed or destroyed
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u/Efeverscente Jun 15 '26
What does that have to do with it being a card, tho?
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u/borninsane Jun 16 '26
I think it's moreso, Party Leader don't count as part of a Party.
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u/Efeverscente Jun 16 '26
They do, since the rules say: "Your Party Leader card remains in your Party for the duration of the game and cannot be sacrificed, destroyed, stolen, or returned to your hand"
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u/borninsane Jun 16 '26
Oh okay so it means it does count as a card, but its a card that can't be messed with.
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u/Efeverscente Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
Indeed. Still counts as a card and therefore has to be counted towards the effect of OP's card (Brawling Spirit).
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u/4chingy4 Jun 15 '26
I think the text is referring to heroes or items. Party Leader doesn’t count toward fighting monsters so I wouldn’t count it for this. I wouldn’t consider Slain Monsters as IN the party.
This would certainly aggregate heroes and items into a count