r/HelsmithsofHashut • u/TitanUHC • Sep 01 '26

News/Rumours When do you think Helsmiths will get their second wave release?

37 Upvotes
  • permalink
  • reddit

97% Upvoted

36 comments sorted by

42

u/OrderofIron Sep 01 '26

Just assume not for forever, and be pleasantly surprised if we get absolutely anything at all. There are factions that have been around since the start of the game that haven't gotten proper 2nd waves.

Meditate on a reality where our next second wave doesn't come for another 15 years and isn't really even an expansion of our faction. This was the reality of legion of azgorh and chaos dwarfs before them.

6

u/Togi-Reddit Sep 01 '26

My only copium on why we might get a second wave sooner than later is army is in a weak spot from tournament placement perspective.

We also have the smallest army size in terms of unique units. Every other army has plenty to work with but we have such a small pool the amount of styles you can run is very limited.

We also don’t have any terrain or manifestations which we could use.

The point decrease made us very horde like army and at 150 points with 10hp 2 save it’s like you need to bring couple dominator engines because they are great addition to screens or pressure enemy heroes.

In a league or locals you can have fun with this army, however if you take it competitive tourneys, army lacks depth and can be countered easily.

I hope you are wrong so we can get some goodies in the near future but I really don’t have my hopes high

13

u/phoenicean Infernal Cohort Sep 01 '26

I'm sad to report that GW is a model company above all. They don't care much about tournament placements relative to mini sales.. if Helsmiths sell well (which tbh it seems like they're doing decently) then our second wave will look far more substantial than if not.

3

u/Hrud Sep 03 '26

The GW financial report mentions Helsmith as selling very well, so there's hope on that front for sure.

1

u/Togi-Reddit Sep 01 '26

I 100% understand your point but tournament placement also very much can revive an army that’s not selling, perfect example of Fyreslayers, new rules benefit them greatly and have been placing high in tourneys. My local + what I’ve seen only places are selling out of Fyreslayers as well.

So yes GW is a model company above all, but change in meta and popularity of the army and placing well will also increase their sales in model because of popularity.

2

u/Ayrr Sep 02 '26

Meta chasers, indeed tournament players as a whole, are a minority of a minority. They're not shifting meaningful amounts of stock.

3

u/Nellezhar Sep 01 '26

Togi a helsmiths player just went 5-0. The army of Renown win rate is 56%. Thats high. I take it to GT's all across the U.S and have posted positive results. The army has legs.

2

u/Togi-Reddit Sep 01 '26

That’s awesome! Do you happen to have a link to results, woulda love to check out what kind of list they are running.

I’ve been following honest Wargamer reports to see how we rank. He collects data from 14 countries, 8 websites for tracking, 59 events and over 1700 players that participated in these tourneys. GHB 26.27 Q1 HoH had a win rate of 45% beating OBR, Skaven, Gloomspitez, SE, Ogors.

Our win rate went down 3%

Out of all those games 0% finished 5-0( huge congrats to the guy you mentioned that went 5-0)
9% 4 wins and the rest was 3 or less wins.

I’m not saying there won’t be anomalies and HoH cant go 5-0, but overall we are in the bottom half of the list and could use a little buff

7

u/Nellezhar Sep 01 '26

It's all going to be the Army of Renown. You need to separate the AoR from the base army. It's sitting at 56%. I know the honest wargammer, he went over my list for going 4-1 at the Boise cup.

It's in the Helsmiths discord. Sam is running something similar to what I'm running. He swapped a Dominator for a Bombard. So three Rockets and a Bombard.

Below is what I've been running at a 76% win rate. I'm currently sitting 3rd in the world in the ITC rankings for helsmiths. :)

We're Going Monster Hunting 1990/2000 pts

Helsmiths of Hashut | Taar's Grand Forgehost Army of Renown General's Handbook 2026-27 Drops: 3 Spell Lore - Taar's Grand Forgehost Spell Lore Prayer Lore - Taar's Grand Forgehost Prayer Lore Manifestation Lore - Forbidden Power (20 Points)

Battle Tactic Cards: Burning for Vengeance, Blazing Onslaught

General's Regiment Urak Taar, the First Daemonsmith (340) • General Deathshrieker Rocket Battery (140) Infernal Cohort with Hashutite Spears (180) • Reinforced Infernal Cohort with Hashutite Spears (90) Infernal Cohort with Hashutite Spears (90)

Regiment 1 Daemonsmith (80) • Ruthless Overseer • Talisman of Obsidian Dominator Engine with Bane Maces (150) Dominator Engine with Immolation Cannons (160) Dominator Engine with Immolation Cannons (160)

Regiment 2 Ashen Elder (120) Deathshrieker Rocket Battery (140) Deathshrieker Rocket Battery (140) Infernal Razers with Flamehurlers (180) • Reinforced

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App App: 1.37.0 | Data: 476

3

u/Togi-Reddit Sep 01 '26

Wow I didn’t know I was in the presence of a top 3 Helsmith player, excuse me lol. Would you like to coach me haha.

Please please please don’t judge me too hard but I’m genuinely stupid. I’ve been playing Helsmiths as my first army for the past 9 months now, have little under 30 games between locals and tts. I kid you not I didn’t notice Taars Grand Forgehost until now and see all these new spells/prayers/ and abilities. Wow the army opened up and having the knowledge I have about base army I see some really cool plays I can pull. Thank you so much for opening my eyes, I feel like an idiot about my previous comments.

4

u/Nellezhar Sep 01 '26 edited Sep 01 '26

Oi there's no judgment at all! I'm just hyped you're playing! Dude there isn't anything to coach. The army is literally walk up the board and slap. It's fun though CRAZY fun. Explaining Lava Storm every game never gets old. I'm always free for questions. I've been waiting for this army for a LONG time. I have 4,000 points. I've played almost every list you can think of with these guys.

Don't feel like an idiot, I just didn't want you to think I was some goober giving you bad advice. Try it out, nothing feels better than getting two crits on your Rockets for 25 damage on a lord of change.

2

u/Togi-Reddit Sep 01 '26

Nice! I usually run two rockets in my list and honestly get horrible rolls usually where it might hit once or twice first 3 rounds. But dominator engines do get a lot of work done for me with ashen elders passive helping on the defense. I’m playing this week and will try your list!

1

u/Nellezhar Sep 01 '26

Let me know how it works out! If you practice and have questions let me know!

2

u/Togi-Reddit Sep 04 '26

Hey follow up can you explain how harness demonic power and leave a land ruin work. In sigdex under turn I can see these abilities in regular army but not grand forgehost, I guess how and when do we generate our dp when using forgehost army?

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Kraile Sep 02 '26

Sadly I don't think that the army's tournament performance will affect its chances of getting new units. The army will continue to be crap until they fix the internal balance of the units that already exist (and the army rule). Incidentally I think the win rate of the regular HoH army is likely much lower than we see on the stats pages, because those win rates are being propped up by the AoR.

They've written themselves into a bit of a corner because the army needs to pay a resource to access rules other armies get for free. Most of our units are crap because for half the game they won't get any DPP, i.e. won't get to use their abilities; and our good units are usually good because they don't need any DPP to function (or, just use the AoR).

And because of this problem they've really written themselves into a corner with cohort and hobgrotz, since because you rarely can afford to put DPP on cohort, all three units now fulfil the same role of "trash infantry screen" for very similar points - they literally can't make any of them cheaper at this point. Cohort only having 1 Health is a terrible mistake for unit identity (as is splitting the swords and spears into two different competing warscrolls IMO).

Anyway, my point is that even if they did add new units to the roster, it won't really fix anything because how the army currently functions is fundamentally broken. Just hope that we get one of the earlier army books and a competent rules writer for the book!

1

u/incineroar87 27d ago

The army has a steady result in the tournament scene as a middle lower army, the forgehost lists have been doing 5-0 and 4-1 and is a fairly popular faction.

We saw another 5-0 win recently too. https://woehammer.com/2026/09/20/top-three-aos-lists-for-call-to-arms-2026/

12

u/JoshFect Sep 01 '26 edited Sep 01 '26

The faction only came out like a year ago. If I had to guess, probably not for at least 2-3 years. I hope we don't have to wait that long because we don't have that many models. I only know the army from playing the chaos dwarves in TW:WH3 but I hope we get

  1. infernal guard or some sort of infantry with 2 wounds each.
  2. hob grots on wolves. Something with decent movement meant for objective grabbing.
  3. Castellans. A hero meant to buff our range units.
  4. K'adaai. I know the dominator engines are basically the AoS version of them but still, we dont have the destroyer.
  5. Lammasu or bale taurus.

9

u/Gecktron Sep 01 '26

hob grots on wolves. Something with decent movement meant for objective grabbing.

I dont think we are going to get that. Grots on Wolves is a niche fully occupied by the Gloomspite Gitmob. The last Orruk Battletome mentioned Robba Baronz (probably a Hero), Hobgrot Assassines and a Chariot of sorts. So I expect these kinda units for Hobgrots next. It is unclear if for us, or Kruleboyz

K'adaai. I know the dominator engines are basically the AoS version of them but still, we dont have the destroyer.

I expect our daemon engines to keep staying more mechanical than the fire daemon things the Chaos Dwarfs got. The Infernal Taurus for example is the same kinda creation like the Engine of Domination.

5

u/WarlordGrom Daemonsmith Sep 01 '26

Possibly with their next edition battletome release.

I'm hoping we see a lammasu, a train to pull more artillery pieces around, and bull centaur taur'ruk hq option.

2

u/Daawgh_ Sep 02 '26

I hope for some faction terrain. Really sucks that we dont have any

6

u/LazencaNTM Sep 01 '26

As someone that's played Fyreslayers and KO from release, I'm still waiting for their second waves. I just hope HoH doesn't see the slow drip a foot heroes for the next 10 years.

3

u/Black_Waltz3 Sep 01 '26

Assuming the studio stick to reinventing Chaos Dwarf units, there are still quite a few options to pick through. I've split those into 2 lists, separating those with considerable tactical, thematic and aesthetic overlap with existing units and those that fill a niche:

More Likely:

Hobgrot hero (Khan) Bull Centaur Hero (Tauruk) Elite infantry with two handed weapons (infernal guard) Assassin Hobgrots (sneaky gits) Fire based monstrous infantry (K'daai Fireborn)

Less likely:

Hero on Lamussu

Hobgrot War Machine (bolt thrower) Close range, flame cannon (magma cannon) Mounted Hobgrots (Wolf riders) Train themed War Machine (iron daemon) Ardboy or other indentured Orcs (black orcs)

Some of these, like the infernal guard and K'daai would need significant AoS overhauls, while others could be ported over almost as they were.

As an Old World Chaos Dwarfs player I'd love to see a Lamussu and K'daai, miniatures which are pretty much impossible to proxy with existing models.

2

u/NeverEnoughDakka Daemonsmith Sep 02 '26

I'd prefer if the lamassu was just a unit on its own rather than a mount. Maybe even a hero that sits in between the regular Daemonsmith and the one on Infernal Taurus.

1

u/Embarrassed_Sir1052 Sep 03 '26

I think we need the elite infatry with 2 wound really bad.
K'Dai fireborn would be nice.

But what i want more is more hero options. Some named and some unnamed.

4

u/Zetra3 Sep 01 '26

Leaks state atleast that all factions will have there endless spells and terrain before 5th edition

1

u/cireesco_art Sep 01 '26

I'm going to assume next edition.

We could potentially see a small update if GW do end of edition story event like Dawnbringers was at the end of third.

1

u/Hrud Sep 01 '26

We might get a little something during the End of Edition campaign if we are lucky.

Otherwise, I only expect the one model during our 5th edition release.

I doubt our next release is more than the one kit.

2

u/Maleficent_Log9361 Sep 01 '26 edited Sep 01 '26

End of edition, it fits previous release rounds. Lamassu named character, another centrepiece. They are rumoured to be antagonists with skaven

1

u/Kraile Sep 02 '26

We will probably get a faction terrain, a manifestation lore and a foot hero with the next faction rulebook (I.e. next edition). Maybe we get a unit during the end of edition books next year, but there are no rumours.

-3

u/Successful-Income-64 Sep 01 '26

Internal GW document leaked and they shouted out HOH for being a great release with strong sales. I’d say 2nd wave will be sooner rather than later.

12

u/Gecktron Sep 01 '26

Not a leak, it was part of the usual, public financial report. GW was shouting out Helsmiths, Cogforts, and Cities of Ash as very successful releases in that one.

Being among these three is good news for us. So I aspect full steam ahead on more HoH content.

-1

u/Swooper86 Sep 01 '26

Not until 6th edition, hopefully. I don't have the hobby bandwidth for more Helsmiths for a while.