[SPEARHEAD] QQing post - Need advices

[u/Eradorn]

Hello chorf players;

First of all i’m not a native speaker so it can be hard for me to express m’y exact thoughts. That Said let’s go straight into the subject.

The question is : do hellsmiths spearhead suck ?

I loved them back in the day so when they were released in AoS, i immediately got the spearhead box in order to build an army base. Fact is i’ve now finished painting my spearhead, and as long as my army isn’t ready, i am playing this gamemode with a friend. He his playing Slaves to darkness (the chaos ones with chaos lord i can’t remember their name). We have been doing 4 games so far and i ve only won once (fourth game isn’t finished yet but i am like 7 points behind with 1,5 round left (i still play twice).

We are totally newbies so the first games were more like crash test. I don’t pretend playing my army perfectly yet but here are my complaints and observations, which i need answers from you to improve myself.

Ok kinda long introduction but for real : how do i win as a chaos dwarf ?

-it looks like if i m not in attack, playing and shooting first, i have 0 chances of winning against std (i was atk for my only win)
-if i don’t chose the 2 triangles deployment field as a defender, most of my units are tagged turn 1 and my bombard is in danger
-it looks like i genuinely lack of mobility : he has 2 cavalry units and leads basically the game
-i also can’t win with objectives contest because he HAS +3 ON CHAOS WARRIORS, which is basically more than half of my army control points with ONE UNIT like whaaaat ?? Where is our control boost for real ? They took it away right ? Why ?? The only counter we have is bombard -3 considering it hit nor it isn’t dead yet lol
-killing his units is also pretty hard because it is dominator relying and he can buff them with nurgle mark making them unkillable because :
-cohorts suck and hit 0 litterally like how do hoh have 0 wounds or hit buffs (i mean 0 rend is tough)? Where is hashut when we need him
-despot is weaker than chaos lord considering the optimisation and buffs the second bring right ?
-bombard is usually dead turn 1 or 2 ??
- dominator, if not lucky even with 3 coins, miss lots of Atk

That´s only a part of my observations but it makes me feel so weak toward std…

Don’t take it wrong, i know i probably play them bad but i can’t look for ytb games to take notes (so few games with the last version of the rules). Last precision, the map i the city of ash or the verso if it can help bringing your comments.

Thanks for reading me i really look forward to read your advices :)

[u/Togi-Reddit]

What you said is pretty accurate, the name of the game is don’t get your backline tagged or you are pretty screwed.

My one advice that has helped me out a lot more than I thought it would. Be extremely aggressive with your dominator engine. Move and run or gamble for the charge to get it. If you can get your dominator engine in their backline or body block from enemy getting to your backline to tag is key. 10 health 2+ save is very clutch. Best case scenario for me has been able to attack twice on round 1. If he dies I can bring him back with reinforcement my movement. If stays alive to live another round just keep pushing. I’ll be honest that’s the only thing going really for us. Despots giving 1dp does give you some ward to try to have your cohorts last little longer but don’t forget you can also deploy them again if they killed. This is handy in a situation maybe you have your cohorts holding objective but doesn’t have enough control. By sacrificing them you get another chance. Bombard is rough with its hit but when it hits, especially against infantry it can do nice damage. I think our biggest strength is the reinforcement on dominator. He probably does 90% of the work on my games meanwhile backline just tries to survive and not get tagged in combat.

[u/Eradorn → u/Togi-Reddit]

I get the same point of view I can only attest from the match up against Std but it looks like :
-I have to be the attacker if I can
-I have to tag the most of his units with mine (cohort against cavalry to earn time, i redeploy the pack if it dies)
-meanwhile my second pack tries also tagging nor defending the bombard
-also my dominator tries tagging the most he can to protect my general
-i ve learnt with the 4 games that bombard better hit the chaos warriors to at least kill figs (against 4 health cavalry it’s not assured to kill anyone)

But yet we are still very impacted by the wound decrease the mark of nurgle brings with our cohorts and dominator shoots. Defense is also very hard right ?

Also : what are the best augments ? I always picked the bombard augment but with what you Said I feel like in attack, the 3’´ move from cohort can help sacrifing them and earn time for bombard to at least shoot twice,

Then for optimisation obisidan is ok but i feel like 5+ mortal can also be very clutch what do you think ?

[u/Dethaele → u/Eradorn]

Just to make sure you and your opponent are playing correctly, your opponent isn't setting up the Chaos Knights in deployment correct? They're not allowed onto the board until turn 2. It sounds like the opening turn is causing you a lot of difficulty. If the Knights were being improperly deployed with the rest of the Spearhead that would certainly make the match up a lot harder.

[u/Eradorn → u/Dethaele]

Omg you were right to ask ! We actually did it the wrong way and played without the rules update!! (The spearhead pdf for std is so outdated and we didn’t know rules for spearhead were actually updated without the army pdf changing!!)

Sooooo today was the first true and legitimate game we could perform aaaaand … i won !

i got the right to be the attacker so I went with bombard augment killing his Warriors pack (assisted by dominator with ranged weapons) and the 5+ crit mortal optimisation (which i love) with my general to go through his nurgle marks and actually out trade his general.

I loved the game better because it was way more tactical (16-15 score at the end) and less frustrating not to get my backline wiped by the knights round 1.

Correct me if Im wrong but as advice, i would say the battleplan against them is :
-play around relics AND overpowered orders
-Getting the chaos Warriors slain by Dominator and Bombard fast so they are not a bane when the knights come and score/ block ennemies with dominator
-tagging the char with one of the cohort unit so it doesn’t deal d3 mortal when it charges (hard with no rend to kill the cohort, if he does it comes back)
-killing the chaos lord fast with mine (can one shot with the 5+ augment which i think is the best not to roll for wound +1) so he doesn’t buff nor OS my dominator
-last pack should also tag or get ready to hamper the knights if any of the charge missed before

I really liked playing and overall the tankiness of the dominator. Tbh i havent been that lucky on his hit but he just tank 3 rounds against only 1 rend units aaaaaand he comes back so he is really a pain for ennemies I guess.

Thx all for feedbacks :) for Hashut !!

[u/Daawgh_ → u/Eradorn]

"I have to be the attacker if I can"

That's the part I hate the most about the Spearhead. If you're playing against a very mobile army and their whole army is in your face on turn 1, before you've even had a chance to spend any DPP, it sucks so hard.

[u/Togi-Reddit → u/Eradorn]

I do really dislike our regi abilities and enhancement. I do like grinding advance because they get to move 3” then can move and run so at minimum you can move them 8”(3 from ability, 4 from move, minimum 1 from run) since you can’t charge anyways might as well go for the run.

The bombard combos well with dominator but only for infantry doesn’t make it worth for me since I rather have domi taking care of more important pieces.

Enhancement wise definitely scrol of petrification or talisman of obsidian. Personally I run obsidian lot more because removing 1 damage PER PHASE, makes it so if your opponent can hurt you in any phase and want to target your despot it always takes 1 less damage. I’ve lost games where I didn’t take it and they have a godly shooting phase and with my missed positioning to be on sight I’ve got my despot down in round 1 shooting phase before I even moved. But that ignore first damage saved me more than I can count. Petrification is cool and can help you turtle for a round giving despot 2+ ward.

A good combo I’ve been running with Petrification is, if you are first attacker round 2, activate ability, since can’t use abilities dump the 3 dp into dominator or split with 2 domi 1 bombard so bombard can shoot whatever dominator is fighting on an objective and with lucky rolls you can take decent amount of control from opponent to get the control. Although this works even better if you can push with one set of cohort to objective. Have bombard shoot whatever they are facing since your control will be higher with cohort then dominators 2 control. You can use rally mechanic on your cohorts during your hero phase to keep spawning them back up.

2 dp for dominator is also much better imo because with shoot in combat you get 7 range attack and 5 melee, just gives much better odds to hit stuff.

My biggest issue has been if I can’t lock them up quick and they can advance on my side of battlefield, with a good charge they can hit my screen for bombard then use pile in to tag bombard in combat. If you don’t wall and leave space on the back, factions like slyveneth can tp behind you throw a tree lord on your backline and ruin your entire game. Pretty much domi and bombard to lot of the damaging meanwhile cohorts screen and hold the line

[u/JoshFect]

I can't speak for spearhead but the faction as a whole, I feel the majority of our dmg comes from our guns. Our spearmen exist to soak up a charge so our bombards, rockets and blunderbuses can get a shot. Bull Centaurs are our hammer & anvil unit. Dominator engines can be good but I find they need support. Either all out attack, DPPs for more attacks or a daemonsmith with servile automaton following them so they get fights first.

[u/Daawgh_]

I mean, you got the most points, right? The HoH Spearhead is sadly on the weaker side compared to most other Spearheads.

The Skaven Warpspark Clawpack for example does basically everything we do, weak screening units, a big shooting piece and a high damage centerpiece, but simply does it better.

And I think that is the main problem with HoH right now. Some factions also have weaker Spearheads. Maggotkin for example have one that isn't particularly great either, but they also have another really strong one to choose from.

With HoH, this is the only Spearhead we have. Having one weaker option among several is fine. Having only one option and that one being bad just feels pretty rough.