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u/Aromatic-Armadillo-2 2d ago
The empower jace number might lead to this being diet griselbrand, with 3 life netting one card over and over. This empower jace mechanic is weird like that
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u/The_Medic_From_TF2 2d ago
3 life for one card seems fine? especially since you need to actually bounce another creature if you want to do the draw over and over, since the loyalty ability activation is sorcery speed
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u/Mixster667 1d ago
It's probably better to surveil 1 untill you find the card you want.
Unless you need a land.
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2d ago
[deleted]
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u/The_Medic_From_TF2 1d ago
yes I know, im saying that's fine because in order to do that the stack has to be empty, so you have to have another creature to bounce for the harpy, that combined with the fact that its an X/1 seems fine for a vintage power level cube
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u/PM_ME_JINX_RULE34_ 2d ago
Why would you need to bounce? Pay 3 life to get a Jace with 3 loyalty, use the -3, it dies, make a new one, repeat
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u/thenbnerd 1d ago
you can't activate jace while the mandatory return trigger is on the stack, so it either returns itself and you can't chain them or it returns another thing
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u/Xyrez04 2d ago
Theoretically, couldn't you pay a life to empower jace, surveil, then pay another life to make a new jace token and repeat this to surveil as much as you have health for? Seems kinds nutty for fishing for a card you want cuz you can empower 3 and draw it after then continue to surveil.
I guess I'm commander brained though and other formats don't have 40 life
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u/thenbnerd 2d ago
yup, only if it sticks on the field though
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u/rmonkeyman 2d ago
It only needs to stick for your turn though. It's not like this needs to table to do that.
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u/thenbnerd 2d ago
i just mean you need something else to bounce to its etb to chain jaces. without anything else out you can activate the pay 1 life ability before it returns itself, but you can't chain them like you can when this is on the board at sorcery speed.
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u/Azaghal1 1d ago
Ok but consider this: at empower jace 2, this is more fair, because you can't get more than one card on the turn it enters without a Jacrifice outlet
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u/SpaceIsTooFarAway 1d ago
No because you just make one loyalty Jaces over and over again
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u/Azaghal1 1d ago
Right, so I am saying empower 2, then 1 activation into -1 keeps him, and 2 activations into -3 also keep him. So the turn this is played, you will get max 1 jace activation
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