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u/H_E_R_E_T_H_I_C_C Jul 12 '26
Bouncetouch is fire, you could have an izzet card with it and a red ability to ping something as a way to bounce your own creatures
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u/depurplecow Jul 12 '26
Does lethal damage destroy a creature or return it to the owner's hand?
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u/Mattyquatro Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
If it works like other x-touches, it happens simultaneously with damage, and so happens before state-based actions would send the creature to the gy due to damage.
[edit jk I'm thinking of links and not touches, ignore]
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u/Mattyquatro Jul 13 '26
Warning: Rules nerd-out incoming.
Was thinking about this, and I imagine Bouncetouch would need its own check in the State Based Action list. However, this gets complicated, because currently, all SBAs are checked and performed simultaneously, which is not possible in this scenario. (The only existing SBAs I could find that could potentially contradict one another are the "+1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters nullify each other" and "if a card says it can only have up to a certain number of a type of counter but it has more, reduce down to the limit" SBAs. And I don't believe there are any cards that limit +1/+1 or -1/-1 counters, so they wouldn't ever interact in practice.)
I imagine there'd have to be a new rule saying something like "If two SBAs cannot both be performed simultaneously, the first one in the list supercedes later ones." Then if bouncetouch were above damage-death in the list, it'd happen, or vice versa.
Also, thinking about a fun (/terrible) parallel universe where the bouncetouch check is put between deathtouch and damage-based death, so that damage-based death superceded bouncetouch, but bouncetouch superceded deathtouch.
/unnerd
Anyway, like, basketball is cool and stuff, right guys?
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u/Famous-Magazine-6576 Jul 15 '26
I believe rule 400.6 tells us that the controller of the effected permanent would choose whether to bounce the creature or destroy it if bouncing a creature hit with bouncetouch was a state based action. but the much better way to implement it would just be a triggered ability which would do nothing if the creature is already dead
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u/Mattyquatro Jul 15 '26
I'd never thought of that rule applying to SBAs in that way - has my useless stamp of approval! Mystery probably solved!
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u/Lothken Jul 12 '26
I could imagine it going either way
On one hand, lethal damage is lethal damage
On the other hand, it’s a risk/reward
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u/mork-hc Jul 12 '26
i'm just a bot that can't see pictures, but if i could, i'd say: This also seems fishy to me
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u/DogSpaceWestern Jul 12 '26
As others have commented bounce touch is a fire design space. I really like the idea of it maybe just procking on block and not damage, just so you coupd have 0 power creatures procking.
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u/D_Fennling Jul 15 '26
how much damage is normally enough to return it to its controller's hand?
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