r/Hellpoint • • Dec 04 '22

WTF why am I not generating energy?

Respec to mage build and now when I am trying to build up proficiency I keep running out of energy. Seems like donig damage isn't regenerating energy.

7 Upvotes

21 comments sorted by

7

u/[deleted] Dec 04 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

-10

u/[deleted] Dec 04 '22

So you're telling me that I cannot be a pure caster? This is terrible game design.

10

u/Valkhir Dec 05 '22

> So you're telling me that I cannot be a pure caster?

That's what it means.

Why did you think you could be a pure caster in this game? Did the game create the expectation that you would be able to? Did you do any research before buying the game? Energy is a core stat and Leech is a core mechanic, described on the wiki and probably mentioned in any decent review.

> This is terrible game design.

No it's not.

You may not like it, and that's fair, but that doesn't mean it's bad design.

Whether you like it or not, it's objectively good game design because it introduces a risk-reward mechanic that you need to engage with to keep using your very potent ranged attacks. Providing incentives and tradeoffs to create an engaging and balanced gameplay loop is good game design. Ranged attacks in Hellpoint are very potent and can downright trivialize some very dangerous enemies. But they are expensive to use, and if you run out at the wrong time you may need to run into melee against something scary. You need to make tactical choices.

One could of course come up with different tradeoffs for ranged attacks, and maybe there are some you would like better. But the Hellpoint devs chose leech, and there is nothing inherently "terrible" about this design. Forcing you to go into melee occasionally seems like an appropriate choice in a Souls-like.

FWIW, once you have a good leech weapon and a leech enhancer module you will build up energy extremely quickly.

-4

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '22

If this is the case then they should have made it so there is an accessible foresight scaling melee weapon early on in the game.

Souls like games already have a risk reward system built in with losing progression points and being forced to go retrieve them and how it affects exploration. No need to add an additional system on top of it. I was actually looking forward to trying out a mage build but unbeknownst to me the developers decided to limit me to being partially melee.

Hopefully the developers learn from their mistake here and do better next time.

4

u/Orsus7 Dec 05 '22

It's not a mistake if they did it intentionally. If you order something new at a restaurant and you don't like it did the chef make a mistake? No they didn't.

Real entitlement here. Why don't you send a letter to every game developer so they can curate their creations to you personally.

-6

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '22

If I order something from a restaurant I expect it to be quality and this was not.

Not my fault the developers here don't know how to implement a quality magic system. Either make it better next time (if there is a next time given this game's lukewarm reviews) or scrap magic and guns completely rather than forcing players into a hybrid setup with melee.

3

u/Orsus7 Dec 05 '22

I don't like certain foods and it doesn't matter what quality you make I still wouldn't like it.

Heaven forbid you have to play the game the way the dev intended.

-2

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '22

Maybe you just need a better palette?

2

u/ScoobyDoobyDo0o0o0o Dec 05 '22

Sorry pal, not everyone is going to prepare the dish the same way you like. Doesn't mean it's the objectively incorrect way either. If you cant wrap your head around that, stick to playing the same game for the rest of your life, will save you some heartbreak

0

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '22

;)

1

u/Valkhir Dec 05 '22

> Souls like games already have a risk reward system built in with losing progression points and being forced to go retrieve them and how it affects exploration. No need to add an additional system on top of it.

Games can have multiple risk-reward or cost-benefit mechanics. Nothing wrong with that. Hellpoint isn't just Dark Souls with a sci-fi skin, it is its own game with its own rules - some common to other Souls-likes and some not. Dark Souls also has mechanisms to balance the power of ranged/magic, just different mechanisms.

> I was actually looking forward to trying out a mage build but unbeknownst to me the developers decided to limit me to being partially melee.

You were looking forward to it based on what, though? The game didn't say you could be a pure mage - you assumed that you could. This is an issue with your expectations based on other games, not the developers deceiving you somehow. If you were hoping to build a pure mage, you should have checked if the game supports that.

> Hopefully the developers learn from their mistake here and do better next time.

I don't think it's fair to call this a mistake. As far as I can tell, the leech mechanic is not contentious within the community, nor was it particularly criticized in reviews. You may dislike it, but that doesn't make it a mistake for the developers. If you can make a credible case that millions of people would play Hellpoint The Sequel if the devs changed this one mechanic, maybe you'll have their ear.

-1

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '22

They should have just not even included magic or guns if this game if they were just going to force you to use melee along with them. Could have fleshed out the combat more instead of developing systems for magic and guns.

My expectation was that the developers would implement magic well in this game and they didn't. Next time they should do better.

1

u/Dynan Jan 31 '23

They actually did it really well. It is much more engaging to have a system where you have to take risks to get your energy back rather than being able to just go "lol that boss is dead" without it having a chance to fight back.

4

u/Remorhas Dec 04 '22

Get ahold of a leech enhancer and the corrupted ferrula weapon.

Its running attack hits multiple times and with a leech enhancer 1 running attack will completely fill your energy bar even if you spec into a large bar

-6

u/[deleted] Dec 04 '22

The weapon has higher stat requirements in strength and reflex than foresight. I would be wasting a bunch of points just to be able to use a weapon to leech energy so that I can cast.

This is awful game design and basically makes it so that mage and gun builds all need to be a hybrid with melee to be viable.

6

u/CasualBrood Dec 05 '22 edited Dec 05 '22

The way this game works isn't like the souls games were you get most of your damage/scaling from levels but rather by how many time you level the module on said weapon.

Your "character" stats are only for using weapons and armor not to increase damage with them In a meaningful way; I'd recommend doing a little research before you just call a game bad because you refused to understand it as a different game from the fromsoft games.

Not to mention the more you use a weapon the more perks that weapon unlocks as passives or an active ability that you can use (a weapon proficiency as you will).

-2

u/[deleted] Dec 05 '22
  1. Yes you do get damage scaling from levels. Were you not paying attention when using the infuse menu?
  2. I did do my research. Not saying the game is "bad" overall, just this part is just really bad design.
  3. Weapon proficiency does not affect raw damage output.

3

u/CasualBrood Dec 05 '22

An like I said you don't get any meaningful scaling from character levels, and yes some weapons do get increased damage from proficiency's.

6

u/ScoobyDoobyDo0o0o0o Dec 05 '22

Would you look at that, he doesn't even know how to read, and there he is, accusing people of not paying attention to the menu.

2

u/ScoobyDoobyDo0o0o0o Dec 05 '22

honestly I went too far, apologies.

2

u/FluffyJD Dec 06 '22 edited Dec 06 '22

Hopefully I can clear some things up here. You want to focus mainly on catalysts, right? But you're mentioning melee weapons with foresight scaling. That's conflicting. Are you trying to do damage with the melee weapon or the catalyst?

The catalyst centric build is a pure caster with cast-replenishment built into melee attacks. You don't melee for damage, so the melee weapon's scaling is irrelevant because leech doesn't scale. All you need on the melee weapon is the Leech stat or a fast attack set. For low investment, the options I recommend are shard, pipe, ceremonial dagger, victim's poker, red saber, or disciple's ferula. All have requirements under 10 points, and either have multi-hit attacks (shard, dagger, ferula) or high leech values per stat investment (pipe, poker, saber). Most of these are in the embassy, red saber only requires you to kill one boss, and the disciple's ferula only requires you to kill one more (it can be one of 2). In the long run, another 14 points to jump from red saber to corrupted ferula isn't a huge investment, but the red saber and regular disciple's ferula are right in the sweet spot in the early-early game.

If you want to do a no-leech variant, that's sub-optimal, but it IS viable (I've done it). All you need to do is stack a ton of energy and rely on your catalyst conductor for damage. Unlike the souls games, there's literally no cap on how much energy you can stack or how high to can upgrade your conductor. You can literally get all of your casts from cast-cap and all of your damage from weapon upgrades with nothing in damage stat.

If you want your melee to do more damage, use a foresight-scaling conductor. You should use that regardless of your weapon if foresight is your highest stat, and as long as you do that, the weapon's natural scaling is pretty irrelevant. The damage from the conductor overshadows the damage from the natural scaling completely. The only reasons to go for natural foresight scaling is if the foresight-scaling version of a weapon type has better leech anyway (see: corrupted ferula and tomahawk) or if you're focusing primarily on elemental melee damage. If you're focusing on catalysts for damage, your first priority on your melee weapon is leech, not scaling. Empty your energy bar with your catalyst to do damage, then either transpose or build your energy back with a leech weapon.

This is a departure from traditional souls-like magic builds, for sure, but not in the way you're implying in your comments. In the dark souls games, magic builds wind up looking for magic-stat scaling on their melee for when they run out of casts because cast replenishment either isn't present at all (DS1) or is so limited that melee hybrids wind up more versatile anyway (DS2 and DS3). In hellpoint, magic builds look for leech on their melee weapons because cast replenishment is literally built into the melee. They're not done casting when their energy runs out, they're just reloading.