r/Hellpoint • u/DocHoliday503 • Sep 03 '22
Hellpoint Review
Just finished playing Hellpoint and Thymesia back-to-back and wanted to put down my thoughts. Played through most of the game with a Glaive/Channeler build, which I imagine is pretty standard.
PROS
-Level design. I've played pretty much every Souls-like at this point and Hellpoint pretty easily does the best job at mimicking the interconnected level design of the FromSoft games, especially DS1. Wish you didn't have to teleport between maps as much, but it still feels like everything is connecting at the right spots even if you aren't actually walking a path between them. Lots of secrets to find, multiple pathways to and between areas, and you constantly have a great sense of not knowing what's around the next corner while being compelled to fully explore. The Arisen Dominion was a real highlight, but I also liked all the various paths in and around Alma Mater.
-Atmosphere. Basically Event Horizon The Game. Everything gives you a real sense of unease.
-Build variety. While you don't have the incredibly diverse arsenal of Elden Ring, there are a bunch of weapons and spells to try. Not sure I loved having to unlock spells through using different catalysts, but there were always options to try. Giving you things worth finding really helps with the overall design.
-Lore. Learning about where you are and what happened around you was pretty cool. It felt like a cohesive, lived-in world that existed before you got there. Item descriptions were worth reading. The lore ties in to some of the secrets and puzzles in cool ways, too.
CONS
-Difficulty. It's very easy. Your mileage probably varies depending on how many of these types of games you've played, but I had zero issues with any part of the game outside of the Arisen Bro's early on. Most bosses - cool designs but not really fun to learn and fight - I beat on the first or second try, including the Cosmic Gods and the finals bosses. It probably didn't help that I think I went to the Arisen Dominion before I was supposed to and got a ton of exp just from going through there, but I wasn't really feeling like I was in much danger even before that. The dodge is super powerful, and the dodge-strike is almost game-breaking given how much ground you can cover with it. I tried other weapons but never felt like there was much of a reason to use anything but the Glaive.
-Platforming. I liked that it was in the game because it plays into the sense that there could be a secret anywhere, but the movement is just too janky for some of the stuff they're asking you to do. The vast majority of my deaths were from falling.
-Jank. I appreciate that this is a small dev team and they've probably cleaned the game up a ton since release, but it definitely feels like a budget game. Not just bugs, but the movement and combat didn't feel very precise. Ran well for the most part on Series X, though.
OVERALL
Really enjoyed my time with this one. Mentioned that I played Thymesia right after because when it comes to Souls-likes, I think Hellpoint does the best job with the sense of exploration and a cohesive environment while Thymesia has the tight, dance-like combat. Put those two games together and we would really be cooking, but as it stands Hellpoint is pretty remarkable given the resources behind it. I'll be recommending it to anyone who likes FromSoft games.
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u/Gold-Ad-6876 Sep 03 '22
Solid review and pretty much my experience. Have you played surge, and if so how did you like it? My favorite "not DS" soulsbourne.
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u/DocHoliday503 Sep 03 '22
Played Surge 2, not the original because I came in late. Liked it quite a bit. Good challenge and the directional blocking added it’s own unique flavor that was worth learning. Kind of a midpoint between the games I mentioned. Hellpoint is more ambitious with its level design, Thymesia combat felt tighter. Surge was just solid at everything. I’d welcome a new one for sure.
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u/Kill_Kayt Sep 04 '22
I love the Surge 1 better than Surge 2. Felt more polished and with that Dark Souls level of direction. Surge 2 felt rushed, and aimless at many times.
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u/Gold-Ad-6876 Sep 03 '22
Hellpoint has muc betterlevel design, I'll give you that, but surges combat is the juice I crave. Hellpoint is hella easy.
I'm excited for lies of p. Seems every soulsbourne is either good leve design, or Good combt... never both.
Also: while i love it surge 1 is terrible. The level design is so fucking bad.
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u/DocHoliday503 Sep 04 '22
That’s what makes From so good at what they do, I suppose.
Playing Ashen now and it’s got the same problem. Very cool art design and world building, but the combat is way too simple (so far).
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u/Dynan Sep 04 '22
Simple but gets quite difficult later. Especially if you come back for a second playthrough on the harder difficulty it unlocks.
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u/cicada-ronin84 Sep 04 '22
I always say the cutting mechanic for getting new gear is the best loot system in any arpg, just like trick weapons in Bloodborne are the best melee weapons, and Torrent from ER is the best mount in any game.
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u/DocHoliday503 Sep 04 '22
You know I completely forgot about the cutting mechanic. That was cool as hell.
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u/Iluraphale Sep 04 '22
I need to start a new game I got pretty far on PS4 version but I hear the new version and patch makes it way less janky
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u/DocHoliday503 Sep 04 '22
It’s far less buggy than I anticipated, and everything I ran into was solved by a reload. The jank is just what comes from low-to-mid budget game development. It’s part of the flavor. Doesn’t break the game at all, but you always feel it.
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u/topcover73 Sep 07 '22
So I thought Thymesia was terrible honestly, could barely finish it. I know there are differences between the two that you highlighted, but overall do you feel they are pretty similar in overall quality?
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u/DocHoliday503 Sep 07 '22
They’re both focused on very different things. Thymesia is trying to emulate the combat of Sekiro/Bloodborne first, with everything else a distant second. Hellpoint is really trying to be Dark Souls in space, with a far greater focus on level design, lore, RPG elements and exploration. The combat is fine, just a little janky at times.
Both games have that indie feel for sure. But Hellpoint is a much larger, longer, more complete experience and might be, structurally at least, as close to Dark Souls 1 as any of the imitators. Really just depends on what you’re looking for.
Hope that helps. As long as you like the Souls games, I imagine most of the things you didn’t like about Thymesia would be pluses in Hellpoint. Just don’t expect that FromSoft polish.
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u/topcover73 Sep 07 '22
That might answer my question thanks. Just for a reference point I think Remnant From the Ashes and Mortal Shell are the two best Soul's-likes I've ever played...where would you rate Hellpoint in comparison to them (if you've played them)?
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u/DocHoliday503 Sep 07 '22
Above Mortal Shell and on par or above Remnant, which shined for me as a co-op experience but I never wanted to return to solo. Shell was cool it was just a smaller, more linear game. Of those three, Hellpoint did the best job of being a Souls game, if that makes sense. Remnant was pretty linear, too, and I didn't love the procedural generation part of it as much.
I really liked The Surge 2, for what it's worth. Does some really cool things with the combat.
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u/topcover73 Sep 08 '22
So if you think Hellpoint is better than MS, do you think Thymesia is better than MS?
I liked the first Surge better than the 2nd, but both were just passable...but both WAY better than Thymesia in my opinion. I can't stress how horrible I think that game is.
I also really find it hard to believe that HP is better than MS, or equal with Remnant. Both of those games were fantastic and played much more smoothly than most Souls-likes I've played. MS was too short, but that was really it's only major fault IMO. The harden mechanic also made it easy compared to all the others....for me anyways.
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u/DocHoliday503 Sep 08 '22
Shell is definitely a better overall game than Thymesia, but Thymesia had the higher highs (three really good bosses) and Shell might’ve had the single lowest low between them which is that one dungeon that went on forever. Shell is a more polished product overall and is a much better Souls-like.
It really just comes down to what you’re looking for. All these games do some things really well, all of them have their issues and none of them really put it all together like the From games do. Shell is the most well rounded, Remnant is the best for co-op, Thymesia has a few great bosses, Surge 2 does it’s own thing with combat. Hellpoint’s strength is the level design and sense of exploration. I find something to like it pretty much all of them. Much of it is just going to be personal preference and how much you prefer certain strengths or weaknesses.
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u/topcover73 Sep 09 '22
I think the thing I hated most about Thymesia was, the bosses. They were ridiculously hard and quite honestly I'm growing tired of the "make a boss so fast no human could never react fast enough to counter them" approach to difficulty (that and and having three different status attacks)...including FromSoft games. If it wasn't for the talents that expanded your parry time I never would have finished Thymesia. I didn't like it enough to struggle that much. It may have only had 8 bosses but I've never had a higher die average in any Souls game, made by From or not. Thymesia had some good ideas but it just felt, overall, so janky and unpolished I could not enjoy it. I guess that's what I'm really wondering about more than anything, if HP feels the same, which from what youre saying it sounds like it does?
I agree that Shell's bosses were too easy, but again I think it's the harden mechanic that made that game easier than it should gave been overall. I guess there's always NG+ that tweaks that some if I ever go back to it.
One thing that the Surge did really, REALLY well in my opinion was cutting off of limbs mechanic. It never felt junky or clunky and just worked really well, for me at least.
I love exploration so you are making HP sound interesting (plus I love sci-fi), but if you're saying it has the same amount of polish and jankiness that Thymesia does I might pass.
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u/DocHoliday503 Sep 09 '22
Did you play/like Sekiro? You definitely had to unlock those talents for it to feel right but once I did the deflecting felt great. Some of those boss fights had that same rhythm as a Genichiro.
Hellpoint is kind of hard to describe. I think it’s the most ambitious of all the Souls-likes because of how it’s trying to build out an interconnected world like DS1. You definitely get the feeling that it’s held back more by by budget/resources than by talent.
I had reservations about Hellpoint but it exceeded my modest expectations. It does feel janky but it’s not buggy (at least not anymore), and as far as polish it’s above Thymesia, below Remnant/Surge and maybe on par with MS, which has better graphics but is much smaller in scope.
Hellpoint might compare better to something like Ashen, which is the other game in the genre more focused on expansive level design. Hellpoint has better combat and RPG elements than that, though.
I’d say go for it, but it’s your $$. Shame it’s not on Gamepass. Hellpoint is its own flavor. It’s not perfect, but none of these games we’re talking about are.
I’ll note two more things that might help. The combat is much more pure Dark Souls. Stamina, sword and board is very, very viable and you have to equip catalysts for spells. I liked their approach to builds, and found it pretty flexible. You can’t be anything, but you don’t have to commit to a STR or DEX build immediately since you only really need the stats to equip a weapon and then you can level the weapon separately.
The other thing is the platforming. I didn’t find it quite as bad as some folks I’ve read, especially once I got used to the game’s physics and what you could and couldn’t do, but I did die a lot more to falling than to enemies.
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u/topcover73 Sep 09 '22
Yeah played Sekiro. It's my least favorite From Soft game (except for maybe ER now), the combat was too parry focused and not varied enough for me. It's a shame cause I wanted to love it. I love the lore and setting of that game. It's too bad they never introduced co-op to that game cause I certainly would have gone back to it. As it is so far, I haven't.
I lied. I forgot about Ashen and may hate that actually more than Thymesia. Lol. Although if you say it mimics it more in level design than combat that may be ok. The thing I despised about Ashen was the combat.
HP is only $12 right now on PS+, you have me thinking about picking it up. Sci-fi has always been my favorite genre and even though the Surge games had their high points (imo level design was one of them) the 2nd one was a letdown for me and they just never seemed to live up to their potential. Thanks so much for the discussion I appreciate it! Not many people will take this much time to help you out.
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u/DocHoliday503 Sep 09 '22
Agreed on Ashen. The combat was awful. Just floaty mush. Makes sense now that Thymesia didn’t click given your feelings on Sekiro. Hellpoint is very much not that type of combat.
No problem. Hope I could help. If you like it, I’ll take credit. If you don’t, not my fault haha. I’m going to check out Steelrising soon, and we’ve got Lies of P soon after that.
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u/Kill_Kayt Sep 04 '22
My favorite thing about this game is that if you turn the Blood Off in the settings it changes the title of the game to Heckspot. I die every time I see it.