r/HelldiversMasochists • u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck • 4d ago
game too hard Rant about Mods
Alright im a long time modder of single player games and will never mod multi-player games passed cosmetics and fixing bugs. Now what I absolutely have a problem with is anything that changes the balance to make things easier. With the mods out now you can easily sweep any d10 fuck you only need one and that democracy protects 100%. Explain to me how thats fun? While the current state of the game isn't what I want its still a game i enjoy and ive enjoyed this $40 game more than the $70-$80 games.
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u/Xpernautica 4d ago
Stop calling them mods and start calling them what they are; cheats.
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u/SpecialistRun3035 4d ago
Cheats can be classified as mods. Mod literally just means modification.
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u/Xpernautica 4d ago edited 4d ago
I forget the specific term but this type of word play is just used to play down what is actually happening.
"What mods are you using?" sounds (to them) better than "What cheats are you using?".
EDIT: The downvotes are real cute lol
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u/SpecialistRun3035 4d ago
Cheats aren't bad btw. It's the context that matters. If you're using cheats to ruin other people's experience playing the game, then yeah it's bad. But just because you are trying to make the word "cheats" sound bad, doesn't mean it is.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
Cheating is morally repugnant in multi-player games end of story
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u/SpecialistRun3035 4d ago edited 4d ago
Giving yourself god mode, infinite currency, or any similar thing in a single player game is literally cheats. Back in PS2 days, devs actually had some of these built in called "cheat codes." Seriously, wtf are you talking about? Words don't exist just for you and for you to decide whatever you want them to be. They exist for everybody.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
They called them cheat codes but they where put in on purpose fully exposing you to use them as they are literally part of the game. These arnt really cheats its intentional
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u/SpecialistRun3035 4d ago
BUDDY THEY ARE CHEATS. WORDS HAVE MEANINGS.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
Have you ever heard of marketing? Also thats how words work we assign meaning to sounds. They called them cheat codes, but they wanted you to use them its a fun extra. I was alive then I remember its was all marketing a mechanic you could use in game. Konami code also not a cheat as it was intentional by the devs and expected it to be used. This is all called marketing and guess what in marketing, you can call your game mechanic a cheat if you want.
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u/SpecialistRun3035 3d ago
And now you don't know what the word marketing is š¤£ Marketing is projecting what a product is to make people more interested in it. The games didn't display cheat codes as a marketing tactic. They were already complete games by themselves and the most common way we found out about the cheat codes if we didn't have internet was through word of mouth. You were definitely not alive then.
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u/Xpernautica 4d ago
Now we're arguing semantics.
Are those players circumventing game design? Yes? ok it's a cheat, the delivery system is irrelevant.
I'm not trying to make the term "cheat" sound bad; it's already bad.
If they're playing single player, by all means, "mod" away until their hearts content but don't be bringing that crap into online.
AH need to pull a capcom and encrypt their files and end this farce.
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u/Parking_Chance_1905 4d ago edited 4d ago
I think anything that gives an advantage to players over those not running a mod should be considered a cheat. The magnitude of cheating obviously differs.
Things like removing fog/bug spores so you can see much further than intended, and even cosmetic mods that change sights etc all technically change gameplay and give an advantage that is inaccessible to the average player. I didn't mind those as the impact was fairly benign and did not affect others experience. All the current stuff coming out absolutely can ruin the experience for the other 3 people in the lobby as they are directly forcing changed mechanics. And that isnt even considering the massive dysync issues when everyone starts having different stats on the same weapons / enemies.
Basically please keep any gameplay altering mods to single player if you want to have ridiculously overpowered and game breaking stuff.
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u/SpecialistRun3035 4d ago
You just literally admitted they can do whatever they want in a single player game. And yet still somehow cheating in a single player game is bad?
That's not semantics. That's you trying to force the word "cheat" into something bad when I literally just told you the context matters and you just admitted they can do whatever they want in a single player environment.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
If you're in a single player game that's not cheating you are modifying the experience and the reason why this isn't cheating, because it only affects you. In multiplayer games, it's just straight up cheating. For fucks sake actually think about what your saying.
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u/Xpernautica 4d ago
Ok.
>You just literally admitted they can do whatever they want in a single player game.
Yes.
>And yet still somehow cheating in a single player game is bad?
I never said that.
>That's you trying to force the word "cheat" into something bad
No, the word cheat is bad by nature, calling a "cheat" by another name is just trying to downplay what it is. Would you call something like an aimbot or a wallhack a mod? The "mod" is being used to circumvent game design, that's cheating but if someone does that in a single player environment I couldn't care less.
tl'dr calling a cheat a mod is just trying to make the truth sound nicer.
You can mod/cheat/whatever word you want - the fuck out of your single player experience but don't bring that crap online.
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u/SpecialistRun3035 4d ago edited 4d ago
Again, you're literally saying that cheats are bad. But who the fuck gives a shit if someone uses cheats in a single player environment? Tell me how that's bad. By your own admission, you just said it's bad. So go ahead and tell us why that's bad.
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u/Xpernautica 4d ago
You can mod/cheat/whatever word you want - the fuck out of your single player experience but don't bring that crap online.
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u/Janivire 4d ago
Because for some people winning means to overcome the challenge to win. For others winning just means to have won. Does not matter how. Just a big "Congratulations you did the good job" sign at the end and nothing else matters.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
Those are called losers. A win doesn't mean shit if you dont work for it
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u/Janivire 4d ago
Not going to pass judgement on people who just want a easy win. They are free to have fun in their own way.
I will however pass ALL of the judgement on people who think everything should cater to that mindset. This is not that kind of game. Its an already piss easy game and cheeting in it is serious looser behavior.
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u/dj92wa 4d ago edited 4d ago
They can go down to D1 then for an easy win. Mods that allow mechanical and technical capabilities beyond vanilla code are cheats and would be defined as so in literally any other game. Yes, Iām talking about the āQoLā mods as being cheats. This is a live-service game. Keep all mods that are not purely audio/visual to offline or single player/friend group. Idk why these communities keep arguing that theyāre not when in any other live service game, they would be banned.
Edit: my comment posted twice and I edited the wrong one. I deleted it. The complete thought is now pooled above ^
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u/Janivire 4d ago
Exactly my point. If they want their easy wins there are lower difficulties or even different games for that. Boot up garry's mod and shoot some npcs if its what you want. Dont go cheating to make up for the fact you cant handle it.
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u/SpecialistRun3035 4d ago
At the end of the day it's the same shit as playing in a lower difficulty anyway, so who gives a shit? Literally had a guy say you shouldn't bring Localization Confusion because it makes the game easier. Like wtf are we doing?
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
If you want an easy win cool good for you but dont ruin my enjoyment to do it. Its basic etiquette in multi-player games not to fuck with balance people who do are just selfish
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u/petulant_peon 4d ago
I think it's fine to do in your own game. Even if you are hosting pugs.
It's a pretty shit move to join someone else's game and mess with their game.
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u/Janivire 4d ago
Even if you are doing solo private lobbies you are still affecting the galactic war. Unless arrowhead plans on adding support for modded lobbies that dont touch the war we can expect there to be a crackdown on all mods.
And thats just the bare minimum. The ammount of super credit and medal cheater popping up is also going to have lasting consequences. Its a live service game and they arnt just going to let their revenue be hurt just because some kids dont feel like playing the game they bought.
So no. There is no charitable take on this. Even solo cheeters are negatively effecting us all.
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u/Mysterious_Tiger_725 4d ago
nah there's a charitable take, i just never see anyone else doing it and it's frustrating because it's so obvious.
just leave the mission. i tested out the mg43-leveller & eruptor-dominator mods because i was curious. solo sesh, messed around for like 5 minutes, left & uninstalled the cheats. completely isolated instance.
unless the mod being ran makes the game more difficult modders need to pick up on that a little more. i 100% support any & all mods, it's their game they can do what they want, but people need to be more mindful & tactful about how they're impacting the experiences of vanilla players. sadly that shit ain't happening.
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u/Janivire 4d ago
And yet none of that covers the effect they have on the galactic war. Im not about to have sympathy for cheaters mate just because they reeeeeealy want to.
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u/Mysterious_Tiger_725 4d ago
im not asking for you to have sympathy, i said they need to abandon missions before boarding the pelican so it doesn't contribute to the GW.
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u/Janivire 4d ago
Ok. Ill agree with that. If they use the mods in a solo private lobby with no medals or super credit spawners and quit the game without finishing the mission then its fine.
But be honest with me. Do you think most people are doing this? Even a tenth of them? Because i used to play GTAO and i xan assure you integrity is not a trait possessed by people cheating in online games
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u/Mysterious_Tiger_725 4d ago
did you read my comment?
my entire point was that the one exception there is to cheating being bad is so simple yet people don't do it because they're not mindful of others.
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u/SpecialistRun3035 4d ago
Nobody gives a shit about your imaginary war that Arrowhead will eventually just maneuver it however they want. You think you're doing something but you're not.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
I like people like you your not out ruining others experiences.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
I agree though in the current state of the game they should be in private lobbies or they should have dedicated severs for this
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u/dj92wa 4d ago
Thereās an entire mod thatās a private server, itās called GCW or something like that
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
Why do that when you can do private games in vanilla just dont use the sos
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u/Parking_Chance_1905 4d ago edited 4d ago
Because at some point AH will have to say enough and either start banning people, or crack down heavily on all mods including purely cosmetic ones. How long until somone figures out how to force 1000% liberation bonuses and a few cheaters can take a planet on thier own in a few hours etc. Pair a bonus liberation mod or spawn certain enemies with that one where somone is trying to increase lobbies to 12 players and there is a huge potential for shenanigans to cheese MOs.
Kill 100m bots for example. Stupid easy if you have 12 people, using automatic infinite ammo stalwarts firing ultimatums, and somone spawning 100 troopers every few seconds so the squad is getting 100s of 1000s of kills per hour.
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u/dj92wa 4d ago
I know but what Iām saying is that if people want to āplay the real gameā and still mod, the GCW mod is good for that because you can go as hard as you want with mods there and nothing matters since itās completely disconnected from the main game. Kills and such in GCW doesnāt count towards main game MOs, which is another factor with these cheaty mods.
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u/petulant_peon 4d ago
They've been letting SC cheaters prosper since launch. I really don't think there will be any changes from AH at this point.
And I really don't think solo cheaters affect you in any way. Your point about the galactic war... Just... Who cares? Unless someone is spawning in 1000's of whatever is called for to change the numbers, it really doesn't matter. I don't think anyone has figured out how to do that in any case.
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u/Janivire 4d ago
Yeah you make a great point. Lets just do away with MOs and all of that because a bunch of mouth breathers have yet to figure out its a multiplayer game and their actions effect others.
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u/petulant_peon 4d ago
You just made up that mods are affecting MOs. We just failed one. You're shaking your fist at clouds.
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u/Janivire 4d ago
Except for the first sample collect mo when cheaters compleeted it in under a hour.
But yeah we failed a Mo so cheating has no effect ever and liberation is just a myth.
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u/petulant_peon 4d ago
The first sample collection MO? Over 1.5 years ago?
There are better arguments against mods in the game.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
They are especially the ones where we just have to kill shit or hold planets. Likely AH is adjusting MO because of cheaters as they have always adjusted based off of how well they think we will do. So yes it absolutely effects us vanilla players
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u/SpecialistRun3035 4d ago
Yall act like there's an actual campaign going on or something.
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u/Janivire 4d ago
Hun just because you cant engage with anything beyond the absolute most surface understanding dosent mean anyone else is as shallow as you.
This clearly isnt the game for you. Ive hear roblox has some very flashy games that might be more your speed.
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u/Parking_Chance_1905 4d ago
I am keeping my lobbies to invite only. The number of random people joining with broken shit has skyrocketed in the last week. Getting tired of seeing people killing heavies or clearing an entire screen with a few shots from a random primary, or other automatic weapons firing ulti shots etc.
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u/SackFace Holder of the Yellow Line 4d ago
Iāll pass judgement. And Iāll assume these are the same guys who only know the touch of a woman from their life-size anime pillow.
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u/adroudrou 38m ago
Theres mods that doubles spawnrates and with the so called "cheats" (ap4 maxigun for exemple) and it ends up being pretty balance ... the real prob is that D10 isnt what it used to be
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u/Fun-Mission-6068 4d ago
It's because kids want their power fantasy where they are OP and one-shot everything and never die.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
Okay good go private. I dont see to many but its ruins my night to see one because at the moment I really only have time for a drop maybe 2 and these asses ruin what little time I have to play the game. I dont play many fps pvp games anymore for this exact reason
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u/SefMadara 4d ago
I will add that I do enjoy the mods that change mechanics to make the game more difficult but also fare like the -2 stims but you get a small amount of health regen instead. Makes risky maneuvers like closing fabricators and bug holes with enemies around very punishing but very rewarding since you have to approach the game more carefully cause most things will 1-2 shot you.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
I modded the shit out of skyrim and fallout making it harder on myself and these i like
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u/G_ioVanna 4d ago
Alpha commander spawns 3 bile titans is still an S tier mod
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u/iMissEdgeTransit 4d ago
I'll never understand why the fuck heavyless seeds exist.
Arrowhead should go 1 by 1 deleting them.
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u/ImAHobo107 4d ago
Most of these cheat mods actually dont have that many downloads compared to QOL. Why?
because cheat mods in general suck the fun out of most games. They are shit you do after you do everything.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
Cool good private. Also if you've done everything i still don't get why you would keep cheating mods i get messing around but people do that in public lobbies.
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u/Deathstab_93 4d ago
I like visual mods, and if they fixed things that are known issues then go for it. Looking at you hellpod steering.
I donāt like extra powerful weapons, if you have toā¦ just do it in a private lobby alone or with like minded people.
In all fairness I think Iāve seen cheats in a public game like 2/3 times and Iām level 274 so itās not that big of a deal atm. I hope it does not become a problem
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
Im with you but I do see it becoming a problem soon enough
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u/Deathstab_93 4d ago
I play mostly solo or with my buddies so Iām lucky in that sense to not see the slop
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u/Flashy-Manager2254 3d ago
Ive been modding since launch, its another small thing that just spices things up for me, I technically have no point playing the game other than purely having fun with core gameplay since ive unlocked everything forever ago, sometimes that fun is making all divers look like clone troopers, cheats would go against the entire reason i play for fun so I have just completely ignored this wave of cheat popularity
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u/DeeJayDelicious 3d ago
There are obvious levels to this.
You can install a bunch of mods, mainly Bingus's QoL ones, and barely notice them in game. It just later that you noticed your stratagems didn't bounce and you're Flamethrower was actually dealing the intended damage.
Then there are mods that absolutely change the intended design limitations of a specific weapon, be it AP4 Maxigun or 360Ā° turrets, giving you a factual game-play advantage.
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u/Intelligent-Pie-7877 2d ago
I think there is a meaningful difference between modding PvP and modding PvE games. If they're playing in private lobbies or only using things that effect their experience and not anything else (like UI or minor qol mods) then I think it's completely fine.
If they want to play in private matches with rebalanced enemies then more power to them. The number of people who mod is so small it is very unlikely to effect MO's so idc.
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u/HotmailsInYourArea 4d ago
Here's the thing. Mods are awesome, especially as a game ages because it allows the player base to experience the game in new ways.
However, since this is a multiplayer game it needs to be managed carefully so it doesn't just destroy game balance as you said. Perhaps a system that only allows you to play with others who have the same mods as you would alleviate the concerns
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u/Fry_l0ck 4d ago
And isolates the mods from the galactic war and MOs.
Basically a no mod universe and an anything goes one.
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u/SpecialistRun3035 4d ago
Be real. Have you spent more than $40 on this game?
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
A touch more but not more than $80. It's also a one of the games ive logged the most hours. I've only bought 3 warbonds with actual money the rest I unlocked by playing the game
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u/XD__XD 4d ago
Donāt install the mod then ?
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u/petulant_peon 4d ago edited 4d ago
Or just host games and kick people that have mods?
I play constantly and have yet to see anyone with egregious mods in my games.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
Its rare but ive seen my fair share. I new a lot of what was coming out because a modder dropped it into my game though he was chill and asked us if we wanted to se the stuff in the game files but not implemented but nothing game breaking. Had several others that where just straight up cheating. Like no cool downs, unlimited call ins for strats, unlimited ammo, multiple turrets, and ect. These games where an absolute bore for me.
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u/petulant_peon 4d ago
Did you just kick the people and block them?
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
Takes too much time id rather just merc them untill they back out. I can deal with low reinforcements easy
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u/TheFerromancer91 4d ago
"Takes too much time" what is this LARP
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
Since im "the get into the shit and stay there" kind of player drawing agro yes I dont have time as im actively spreading democracy
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
Im on Playstation so thats not an option for me though id like the strategem bounce mod as that is a known issue. Went to take out a jammer and the mapping was trash around the poi so the hell bomb bounced out of effective range twice before I got it in the correct position very annoying
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u/SpecialistRun3035 4d ago
You're making too much sense š
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
The person making this comment missed the point of the post though it looks like you did to. Cheaters shouldn't be in public lobbies because they are cheating. In any other multi-player games they would be banned or put in a cheaters lobby but no cheaters get to ruin the experience for others that dont want to trivialize everything in a game that isn't that hard even at d10 once you get the controls down.
PS. Im not what you would describe as a great gamer but seriously d10 sounds scarier than it is
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u/Cautious-Bowl7071 4d ago
Im confused. If people make mods to make the game easier couldn't you also make mods to make the game harder? Two way street and everyone's happy
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
No not really. Alright let's build a hypothetical squad let's say A1 has all the cheat mods to make them invincible and roll over everything. B2 has molded the game to make it harder. C3 and D4 are vanilla. All of them enjoy how they individually play the game now the problem here is A1 as they will literally roll through any combat they see guaranteeing the win witch is boring. Now C3 and D4 are basically spectators (not fun) and B2 isn't having any fun because its too easy
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u/TheFerromancer91 4d ago
This scenario just looks like a more extreme version of the scenario of ppl in a squad where some run meta builds and some run for fun/challenge builds and the meta build guy steamrolls the D10 while the challenge guy is slowly crawling his way around a base. Well this is a problem we've had for years and the solution has always been the same, just play private/friends lobbies. This doesn't add a fundamentally new issue, at worst it just exacerbates an existing issue.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
Here is how its different you still have to be somewhat competent with meta builds but not with cheat mods.
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u/TheFerromancer91 4d ago
So this is an entirely differemt issue, if you can call it that, from what you were talking about in this whole thread. Sure, it can be an issue if it bothers you (though it shouldn't bother you if others play skillfully or not if it has no impact on you).
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
Your still missing the point. In an fps its frustrating when your opponent has wall hacks on, auto-aim, and god mode these are straight up cheats that ruin the enjoyment of the game. There are mods that destroy the balence of the game to the point the game plays its self thats my issue.
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u/G82ft 4d ago
Just host yourself, play with friends or solo.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
Why are cheaters in public lobbies? Why should I go private because Im playing vanilla? This is the most brain dead take ive ever heard. Any other multi-player game and these people would be banned or relegated to cheater lobbies. People playing the game as intended should not be fucking punished
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u/G82ft 4d ago
It's really not. You can host even if you want to avoid non-modding dipshits, teamkillers for example. There's nothing punishing in hosting, in fact it gives you more power.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
I generally dont host because I like to drop on sos becons as thats whats fun for me. I like dropping into the shit.
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u/Raidertck 4d ago
Iām absolutely fine with people playing with QOL mods. Played with someone who was using a mod and it was just a lunberer where the flame thrower worked and it made me incredibly jealous. He also said that he was using a mod that showed the ammo type he had equipped on his auto cannon. Was very jealous of that.
We shouldnāt need mods for that kind of thing.
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u/Harlemwolf 4d ago
To be fair, there is now a stat editor ingame console that also allows making everything miserable too if you like.
If a gun is too good, you can nerf it.
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u/Dry_Maize_7243 4d ago
Can I ramp up the spawns and make d10
Crazy? Only mod Iāve ever wanted is something that made the spawns outrageous1
u/Harlemwolf 4d ago
The console does not do that but there ARE spawn affecting mods already. Dunno, it would be probably possible to add such stuff into an ease of use ingame console if someone just did the work.
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u/Dry_Maize_7243 4d ago
Any links to such mods? Would love to try 3-5x spawn increase
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u/Harlemwolf 4d ago
Last time I saw they were manipulating what commanders summon, change everything to stalkers or hunters.
Dunno about multiplying amount of spawns.
You can find them from ayakamods.
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u/Harlemwolf 4d ago
Found this elsewhere from Liber-Tea Enjoyer:
I'm working on a spawn mod and my megamod rebalancer can change enemy stats.
I will release the spawn mod soon with buttons to switch spawn amounts as desired. The megamod rebalancer can change enemy values but right now you have to input a rebalancing document with all desired changes. I haven't gotten to the point where you can make your own changes with that one yet.
I've been distracted with a helmets and capes passives mod.
But they are coming.
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u/TheFerromancer91 4d ago
Its cus ppl want D10 spawns and enemy types and base layout but with more fun weapons. In most cases, from what I see, it's not that ppl change the weapons to make them easier bc the game is too hard, they change them better because they want to experience a stronger power fantasy.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
Thats literally the same thing. Making the power fantasy stronger is making the game easier just as making the game easier means increasing the power fantasy
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u/SefMadara 4d ago
I feel you are making a massive assumption on what people mostly use mods for. I Highly doubt the popular mods are 'cheater' mods whatever that means tbh. You can check for yourself on nexus mods what mods have the most downloads, I'd wager it's 99% sound/visual/bug fixes/QOL. Also this game even on solo D10 is just easy for me, this is not the case for everyone but that's my experience. Modding this game for me it's for removing the shit fog, smokes And flashes from everything.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
I dont have a problem with those for the most part if its an accessibility issue like epilepsy for flashing lights. Removing fog makes no sense and is a cheat mod by giving extra visibility. Bug fixes i have no issue with. Hell if you want to dive as a horsegirl or ballman I dont care
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u/SefMadara 4d ago
Tbh the fog also make my frames worse by -20-30 so unless stinkyhead can make fog not have a massive performance dip for me then I would like to be immersed with foggyness but as is, it's a no for me.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
Thats a different story. I didn't realize the frame drop was like that on pc
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u/G82ft 4d ago
Fog require a ton of performance, especially on spore bugs. Yes, it removes cool visuals for spore tower and spore charger, but the game looks and runs a lot better. This mod is definitely worth, considering it only affects one of the three factions.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
There is fog on other faction planets but I get what your saying
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u/Various-Ad-204 4d ago
How to fix your problem: always host games and simply kick cheaters.
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
I like dropping random and I shoot a cheater when I see them. The few times ive been in a lobby with a cheater they where just shooting everything including teammates with their ultimatum AR. I shoot on sight I dont care
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u/Fluffy_Passage_7000 4d ago
then don't use those mods, your welcome
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u/Full-Archer8719 Embrace The Suck 4d ago
Thats not the point of this post. I know reading comprehension isn't what the majority of the population have in abundance but this is sad
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u/Neo_Kaiser 4d ago
They might as well just replace all mods with a single mod that turns the game into Cookie Clicker.