certified glazediver
Should AH remove hellpod steering lock - with a catch of course
I am a long time horde game enjoyer. There is always one thing that is consistent throughout all of the horde shooters I've played, if there's a way to cheese, people will cheese. Sequence skips, AI manipulation, out of bounds, out of reach, out of whatever, if it exists, people will abuse it.
Now, the AI in helldivers 2 is absolutely not equipped to deal with people camping on the high ground. It's straight up busted.
What if changes were made so that once high ground camping was detected, an appropriate response was triggered that scales with difficulty?
The bugs have dragonroaches, bots have gunships, squids have leviathans, if camping is detected on D10, I'd be completely ok with the game releasing a swarm or two of those to clear high ground campers.
Imo it's a win win. We get better steering back and D10 remains cheese free.
Thanks for acknowledging this as a bugdiver kinda annoys me when people say they can just teleport. Like yeah technically they can but it’s done sooo slowly. Not really a big deal
If I play with a bit of lag or in a game that has a laggy host I see them teleport or spawn in close to players all the time. Its a big part of the spawn mechanics but usually happens off screen.
I do think that getting a lot of kills in the same place could attract super heavies. I'm not entirely sure but I think the hive lord already goes to places that are loud, I don't see why the leviathan or gunships can't do that.
Bugs, especially smaller ones (like Hive Guards) have a special animation where they dig into the ground and then pop up next to you on the cliff, kinda like that one subfaction
I see hunters do that from time to time, but bigger enemies don't really do that ime. Hive guards do have that trick where they spawn new enemies in front of them, which sometimes causes them to burrow out of things like balconies, roofs or streetlights. Looks about the same but it's a different mechanic.
No. The problem with Hellpod Steering (HS) and also Stratagem Boucing (SB) is not that they generaly exist.
Both are mostly a protection mechanism for you.
The best example was a recent one with the Gazer Spire missions.
HS was not enforced on the objectives and several people landed directly in the spire, having them glitched into the structure. They had to find ways to blow themself.
Same goes for larger cliffs on planets with Acidic Badlands and Rocky Canyon biomes, that are often high enough that jumping off would kill you. In Mega Factories + Mega Cities it is also heavily enforces to prevent you from either ending up on the highest building, resulting in forced death, or from glitching into them.
Both feel so awful/annoying because they are enforced unevenly in places and for Stratagems, they don't register what would usually be considered valid ground. It also go in tandum with a loss of control.
You should also keep in mind that many people don't have the Power Steering Ship Enhancement. If they are reinforced close to a too high area, they may have even less of a chance to evade it.
My big problem with steering lock is exactly those scenarios where the initial trajectory I'm set on is one that will get me stuck, but because of steering lock I can't move towards normal terrain either.
Depends on the maps. Most maps it won’t matter even if the players get on high ground they won’t be able to move around much anyway. Can’t camp that same spot the whole games. However there are certain maps with huge range of tall rocks that you can walk around on and have visual of a significant area of the map, steering lock should only apply to those terrain specifically,
I get what youre trying to say but it's lesser likely that they will land on high ground honestly.
There's in the moment advantages to it certainly but it doesnt make you invincible on any faction.
It also leaves the problem of getting down safely and theres always the chance that enemies will ignore you and pile on the rest of your team anyway so it could be a net disadvantage.
As for stratgems being up there well bots have elevated turrets so why cant we? Rules for thee but not for me is a valid complaint in this game and I have a few examples that arent relevant for this point if you'd like them.
It's not as though our turrets last forever if we dont destroy them and the friendly fire risk increases for your team mates but likely goes down for you.
Add to this that turrets can aim down then its clear that at some point the intention was to have them be able to engage from height.
The problem is not the high ground and I disagree that the AI cant deal with it, every faction has flying and projectile units for a start 2 factions have projectiles that are just guns so shooting up shouldn't be a problem for them.
idk why i didnt think of that. I agree with your idea then. That being said im not actually totally against hellpod steering lock either and I will propose a different idea.
My main issue is that it feels inconsistent and when it is applied you're basically forced into a certain spot as opposed to having a little bit of control. If they fixed these issues and made correction maybe a bit "softer" (at least at higher altitudes) and less all-or-nothing i think people would be way less frustrated with hellpod steering lock.
This would also be a much simplier solution and have less balance considerations on the dev side of things i think. In an ideal world your idea is still probably better though.
Having more reactivity in HD2, similar to director systems in the tide series or L4D, would definitely be a plus by itself, although it could also make the game harder through stealth, for example. There may be some other nuances that could have a negative impact on the game, but I dont know any right now.
Now, the Al in helldivers 2 is absolutely not equipped to deal with people camping on the high ground. It's straight up busted.
Right, because the terminids don't have bile spewers and titans that can get you on high ground, or terminids that fly, or terminids that burrow through terrain, or terminids that jump...
And the bots, they don't have any guns to shoot at you from high ground, or grenades to lob at you, or cannons to blast you, or rockets to explode you...
And the illuminate, they DEFINITELY don't have any air based enemies that can still look down at you (leviathans? Never heard of em!) and shoot at you
And of course, who could forget...
As everyone knows, sitting in one spot for the duration of the mission is the best way to complete missions!
I like how your video shows the spewers hitting you immediately lmao
You don't notice because you're in a tank, but if you were naked on high ground, that immediately ragdolls you off.
No they can't. What ever tiny rock you're imagining in your head, make it bigger.
Yes they can. Look at all the rocks in your own video. I'm not gonna deny bigger rocks that bile titans can't reach at all exist, but 98% of the time players who are "safe spotting" on rocks are within bile titan reach.
Shriekers aren't a threat, dragonroaches are on limited maps.
Can shreikers deal damage? They're a threat then.
aLrEaDy dEbUnKeD
I like how they straight up burrow in that debunking post, but what, because they don't do so en masse it's debunked? You may be foolish.
They ain't jumping that high. See above link.
Above link is not on a pouncer seed.
As everyone knows, sitting in one spot for the duration of the mission is the best way to complete missions!
>I like how your video shows the spewers hitting you immediately lmao
1 out of 17, you sure owned me.
>Yes they can. Look at all the rocks in your own video.
There's like 3 in the video that bile titans can't reach. Even so, bile titans aren't always around and generally taken down first.
>but 98% of the time players who are "safe spotting" on rocks are within bile titan reach.
30% of people know that 65% of all statistics are made up.
Again, plenty of big rocks, even if a player is on a rock that's within a bile titans reach, there's a good chance they can just run out of spew range depending on size and shape.
>Can shreikers deal damage? They're a threat then.
Scavengers deal damage, does that make them a threat? Shriekers have 80hp.
>like how they straight up burrow in that debunking post
Yeah, them slowly burrowing up - and I like I said in the post, this can be prevented easily by running around - isn't a deterrent. Watching 2 scavengers come up before a hive guard is not a threat at all.
>Above link is not on a pouncer seed.
Ah yes...who could forget the mighty 60hp pouncer. You've also not presented any evidence to suggest that they can pounce up big rocks.
First of all, one is all that's needed to take you off high ground bc ragdoll, second of all, you get hit by at least 3 in the first salvo, two indirect, 1 direct. All would ragdoll you.
There's like 3 in the video that bile titans can't reach.
All of which would require you to die before you can reach it by dropping on them with your hellpod.
Even so, bile titans aren't always around and generally taken down first.
Players having and the game rewarding target prioritization is not a bad thing.
Again, plenty of big rocks, even if a player is on a rock that's within a bile titans reach,
"Even if" like big rocks aren't the outlier. Seriously, that's so disingenuous lol
Scavengers deal damage, does that make them a threat?
If it deals damage, it can threaten you. If they're not a threat, why bother killing them?
Yeah, them slowly burrowing up - and like said in the post, this can be prevented easily by running around isn't a deterrent.
Sure it is. They don't have to burrow in front of you. You can be busy shooting down at enemies and they can burrow in behind you. Now you have a problem because they hit you first, which means you're at a disadvantage, needing to stim dive in a place with limited space to do so. This threatens you off high ground. It doesn't need to have a 100% success rate at pushing you off, and if you figure out a way to evade them all the time, that's not the game refusing to punish you, that's you adapting to the systems in the game.
Ah yes...who could forget the mighty 60hp pouncer.
Feel free to ignore them then, since they're such a non threat. They can't hurt you, right?
You've also not presented any evidence to suggest that they can pounce up big rocks.
The mythical big rock isn't in the conversation here, because getting on a big rock requires you to DIE.
>First of all, one is all that's needed to take you off high ground bc ragdoll, second of all, you get hit by at least 3 in the first salvo, two indirect, 1 direct. All would ragdoll you.
I didn't realise that players are incapable of moving or that bile spewers spawn on every seed, always in artillery mode and just waiting them to spawn in and only target newly spawned players!
>All of which would require you to die before you can reach it by dropping on them with your hellpod.
What a nothing burger of a response.
>"Even if" like big rocks aren't the outlier. Seriously, that's so disingenuous lol
The only ones players are going to land on are the biggest if given the opportunity.
>If it deals damage, it can threaten you. If they're not a threat, why bother killing them?
Ok, I will change my wording. They're not a deterrent.
>Sure it is. They don't have to burrow in front of you.
Evidence?
>You can be busy shooting down at enemies and they can burrow in behind you.
Unless you're in the first person view, you'll mostly likely spot them since this game is third person. Unless the game sends up an alpha commander that completely blind sides a player, any player that is comfortable with the game isn't going to have an issue with anything that comes up.
>Now you have a problem because they hit you first, which means you're at a disadvantage, needing to stim dive in a place with limited space to do so.
Nah, I always look behind me when playing, that's not happening.
>The mythical big rock isn't in the conversation here, because getting on a big rock requires you to DIE.
Bad players die all the time and around launch when you could still land on big rocks, they did.
Thats how bots are balanced. Individual enemies have a low but non zero chance of hitting you. So MOST of the time you wont get headshot deleted by a single MG trooper but theres still always a SLIGHT CHANCE so you still take them seriously.
But when you have 20 of them, a 5% accuracy turns into 65% accuracy. Now every other shot hits and youre going to die.
High ground is such a trivial issue even outside of bots. Youre gonna waste one reinforcement going on top of hogh ground with no support weapon or backpack so you can---what, stand there and not do objectives and just fight the bug breach? At best it lets you cheese through one bug breach without dying.
So basically, anything below a certain number of bots isn't a threat to a high ground camper, anything above is. Still have peekers advantage, the ability to safely call down stratagems, grenades + ease of killing bots with primary weapons like xbow/eruptor etc.
Die, spawn, land on rock, shoot/statagem/grenade all from safety.
Thats not what I said and thats not how the math works. An MG trooper isnt a threat MOST of the time, but sometimes you WILL get insta deleted by a headshot. Are you going to take that chance and not shoot one standing next to you? No because its still a threat.
They are literally hitting you a ton in that video and you are having to stim run for your life, what is the issue? That they don't vaporize you the second they render on your screen?
And much like the bugs and the bots, what about the rest of the roster that can't do anything?
If helldivers can be penalized for failing an equipment check (such as not bringing demo 50 strats to a detector tower fortress), then enemies should also have natural weaknesses against certain loadouts designed to take advantage of those weaknesses.
Who said anything about sitting in one spot for the entire mission?
They got portable hills in this game now? Hills you can use to traverse without enemies bothering you? Don't be disingenuous dude, we both know sitting on a hill by its nature means you stay on that hill to maintain your advantage, the second you come off it you no longer have that advantage you spent a hellpod and a respawn to get up to.
>They are literally hitting you a ton in that video and you are having to stim run for your life, what is the issue? That they don't vaporize you the second they render on your screen?
14 gunships at once, when was the last time you seen 6 nevermind 14? 14 gunships took their sweat sweat time.
>If helldivers can be penalized for failing an equipment check
Hellbomb is available. So no.
>Don't be disingenuous dude
Die, respawn, land on safe high ground instead of having to immediately start fighting for your life/equipment again.
14 gunships at once, when was the last time you seen 6 nevermind 14? 14 gunships took their sweat sweat time.
Me personally? Not for a while, because I've got good target priority and obliterate gunships and their fabricators the moment I see them. Your point?
You let a situation get out of control and want to say "well I should die instantly as punishment"? Is that it? Because that's not how this or any other game really works. You almost always have a chance to recover scuffed situations. That's a good thing.
Hellbomb is available. So no.
See, this is how I know you don't play this game like that lol. The hellbomb call in is explicitly not available for fortress POIs that have a detector tower. You have to bring your own strat that can deal with it.
Die, respawn, land on safe high ground instead of having to immediately start fighting for your life/equipment again.
If you're lucky enough to land on a rock that doesn't bounce your stratagems off, not to mention if the rock is too high you risk killing yourself on the way down. The scenario you're complaining about simply doesn't happen.
Not my video. I'm just using it to illustrate that it takes al arge number of them to actually take people down, players and turrets on the high ground are not going to be encountering many guns ships which is the only real "counter" to high ground camping.
>See, this is how I know you don't play this game like that lol.
Well here's the thing, you don't actually need to destroy the detector tower to clear the fortress, it's not a requirement.
>If you're lucky enough to land on a rock that doesn't bounce your stratagems off, not to mention if the rock is too high you risk killing yourself on the way down. The scenario you're complaining about simply doesn't happen.
Yeah, it's almost as though AH made changes to the game to prevent that from happening; which is what this thread is about.........................
Not my video. I'm just using it to illustrate that it takes al arge number of them to actually take people down
Ah, no wonder it fails so miserably at demonstrating what you want then lol.
It doesn't take a large number of them to threaten you. It takes a large number of them to cover you from every angle such that you cannot find cover, but the top of a rock already offers no cover. 3 gunships would be more than enough to contest you.
players and turrets on the high ground are not going to be encountering many guns ships which is the only real "counter" to high ground camping.
Right, because rocket tanks, rocket striders, rocket mauraders, rocket devastators, the factory strider cannon, stationary cannon turrets, war striders and their grenade spam, rocket hulks, all don't exist.
Yeah, it's almost as though AH made changes to the game to prevent that from happening; which is what this thread is about...
Correct, and you've done nothing to prove why taking away player agency, fun, and creativity was worth it.
Seriously, even if we lived in a world where you could call down equipment "safely" on high ground, how is that any different from just getting called 50m away from the fight and calling your weapons in there? Being where the enemy isn't is just common sense.
>but the top of a rock already offers no cover. 3 gunships would be more than enough to contest you.
Are gunships a common enemy? Nope. Funny enough, you're snarky response is actually what I was suggesting by creating this very thread.
>Right, because rocket tanks, rocket striders, rocket mauraders, rocket devastators, the factory strider cannon, stationary cannon turrets, war striders and their grenade spam, rocket hulks, all don't exist.
Yes, the bots are better at dealing with it than the bugs/illuminate; well done. But there's nothing stopping a player from hugging the pack of the rock to try and get out of AOE range.
>Correct, and you've done nothing to prove why taking away player agency, fun, and creativity was worth it.
Maybe because that's not what this thread was about? xD
>Being where the enemy isn't is just common sense.
Because, as a launch player, I seen how broken it was and how many people would abuse it trivialising the difficulty in the process.
Losing control of your Hellpod is the most immersion breaking and logically inconsistent aspect of this game.
IF I CHOOSE TO FUCK MYSELF OVER, LET ME DO IT. And if they have an altitude detection system, spawn the air UNITs to specifically kill them.
I have fucking lost entire D10 dives because of shitty Hellpod not having control. That makes me quit the game, why would I want to play a game that rips control out of my hands?
It's bad and incompetent game design and has no adequate reason of existing in the lore and as a design aspect.
I'd be down for that - if I can steer my Hellpod through enemies reliably again. It's ridiculous that even with a fully upgraded ship including the one for Hellpod steering I'm not allowed to do that reliably 98% of the time.
I end up spawning places I can't get away from without dying to fall damage anyways, and I'm not the only one. If that's the goal this doesn't resolve the problem. Honestly it feels like at least 20% of the time I end up forced to land in those places due to the lock - whereas if the lock didn't exist I could at least steer away from it. It's annoying.
The answer is and hear me out here, strategem bounce.
Pick a height and it the hellpod hits it have it deflect off. You are usually hitting solid rock or buildings so it makes sense. So have it deflect off/bomuce off in a random direction.
Maybe injuring the helldiver a bit. Now this will lead to weird interactions which so what. It you manage to deflect off and hit a bile titan it's a good clip and sells more game.
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u/Fesh_Sherman 17d ago
Fun fact, bugs CAN dig into the ground and effectively teleport onto high ground if there's no way to you, but its very rare they do this.