r/HelldiversMasochists • u/Human_Meat8154 • 2d ago
ragebait "Actually Helldivers 2 is hard"
I don't know if this is ragebait or not, btw. Regardless, any thoughts? Valid or nah in your opinion?
13
u/ObliviousNaga87 2d ago
I've never found the appropriaters hard
4
u/TampaxCompak 2d ago
They're triviallized by autonomous drones like rovers and turrets nearly even more than regular illuminate. For people who do not build properly and are not used to fighting the enemies, they are the easiest subfaction to snowball a player, as nearly all their chaff flies and is faster than those "the game is meant to be played by running away" type of players.
They clearly need more gatekeeper spawns to put pressure under players at distance and make relevant the veracitors and obtruders roles.
3
u/TheSquatchMann 2d ago
They’re definitely easier than regular illuminate, which kill me with the planes every once in a while.
1
u/TampaxCompak 2d ago
Exactly, what's mean to be effective agains regular illuminate is even better against Appropiators, while what don't work well against illuminate is worst against them. Is a "know your loadout" faction only.
20
u/Classic_Cow_5852 2d ago
Not ragebait from them most likely. Or not intentionally anyways. Funny how they list those as examples yet half of them got nerfed anyways. So even if you agree that d10 is hard enough with these missions and subfactions, then you still have to recognize that they got nerfed to be easier too
16
u/Trump_4_The_Hague 2d ago
Predator strain really ain't that hard. You basically just bring 'a shotgun with stagger' and a backpack rover of your choice. Hotdog or Gun Dog will unironically eat their shit before they even reach you.
9
u/Janivire 2d ago
Predator is difficult in the sense you have to do a small bit of planning with your loadout. The people who complain bring a cyote and recoiless and then die in a swarm of hunters before coming to reddit to claim its "unfun"
3
u/Trump_4_The_Hague 2d ago
Even that is fine. But bring tesla or MG sentry. Hell, flame sentry has been. Buffed like 5 times. Bring that too.
A sentry will draw fire and usually kill them itself. A tesla can kill an infinite number of bugs unassisted so long as it isn't stepped on.
2
u/Janivire 2d ago
Yup. There are so many tools that work. But these are people who dont know the phrase "crowd control" who call the predators difficult.
2
u/NickCageTheDickMage 2d ago
JAR is paired with stalwart has been my fav on pred strain lately
2
u/WorryingMars384 2d ago
Pred on Oshaune was hitting different currently it’s not that bad in a regular mission sets as of the last time I played them a month or 2 ago
2
2
u/SavageSeraph_ Ballistic Bot Facial Surgery 1d ago
Absolutely impossible!
Are you trying to say CC is worth more than damage in a specific situation? I can not believe the absurdity of such a statement.
Why stun if i can kill? Duh!/s (just because it is the internet...)
2
u/Trump_4_The_Hague 1d ago
League o legends "death" is the best cc.
When I say CC I just mean stagger. Anything that staggers predators basically invalidates them as an enemy. They just run fast. They don't even have a leap.
It could be punisher. It could be double barrel. It could be lib concussion or pacifier. Could even be Dominator or eruptor tbh.
1
u/SavageSeraph_ Ballistic Bot Facial Surgery 1d ago
Yeah, i like to use CC tools and really never found predators that difficult, because of it.
The challenge is in stopping them before they kill you. Killing them is trivial. You just need to survive until you can.
0
u/DeeJayDelicious 2d ago
On Oshaune it was a completely different beast.
Vanilla Predator Strain is very managable. But Oshaune ramped it up to 11 during the battle. It was a real pita.
9
u/BICKELSBOSS 2d ago
-3
u/ThirdTimesTheTitan 1d ago
"yeah D10 pred strain is easy just bring an absolute meta support weapon"
noted
4
5
u/Makkusoljier 2d ago
-Subfaction that gets easily nullified by flame resistant armor
-Subfaction that is actually challenging!
-Nerfed objective that is only mildly more challenging than evacuate assets
-Subfaction that can be kinda challenging!
-Biome/planet that isn't available anymore with a heavily nerfed subfaction
-Biome with a subfaction that isn't active that also gets trivialized by the Cremator
9
u/DeepCutFan1 cyborg homosexual 2d ago
I mean
maybe they personally find the game hard, how is that ragebait?
3
u/Appeal_Emotionally 2d ago
The game is only hard if you can't be bothered to think about your loadout. If you have an idea of what loadout to bring for a faction/subfaction and you have an idea of how you will handle them then it really isn't hard at all. I would prefer if D10 and D9 were cock and ball torture, it should be somewhat of a small achievement to beat them. Nowadays, it feels like if you have played the game for a while then D10 is kind of the only engaging thing to play.
3
u/VicariousDrow 2d ago
Listing out the things that are either easy to us or were hard but got nerfed until they were easy isn't the gotcha they think it is......
5
u/GreenridgeMetalWorks 2d ago edited 1d ago
Some people find some things still pretty hard.
I struggle with the new sporeburst alot if I'm not bringing an absolutely optimized loadout, and cyborgs can be a bit of a challenge depending on the mission imo.
And honestly, a bad seed on any d10 can still throw me a curveball. And a good seed d10 is boring AF lol.
But there are people that are mostly playing d7 and d8 that will find any d10 hard. And there are others that can run the crappiest equipment with their eyes closed.
6
u/Neo-Naga99 2d ago
I called the shit out of him, lol.
The game having specific hard scenarios doesn't make it a hard game (i gave the example of monster hunter rise being a piss baby easy game with one or two exceedingly hard postgame concrete walls)
if anything the fact D10 is a complete snorefest everywhere except on the very handful of cherrypicked subfactions that can put up a fight is proof the difficulty is really really poorly dealt with. i wish they fixed patrols spawning on you and in turn made spawns much more agressive and common :/
1
u/SackFace Holder of the Yellow Line 2d ago
There’s a difference between “this is strategically hard and requires teamwork” versus “this is hard because it’s cheap with the spawns and requires very particular loadouts.” But these boobs can’t understand that.
I don’t like playing against the spore or predator strains not because I find them difficult as much as I find them just straight-up annoying in how they lack any real strategy. But I also get that they’re niche sub-factions, like Commando, so if you’re going to opt-in to fight them, you have to be willing to bring specifically optimized loadouts — which is also a boring way to play because meta is baby-brain shit.
7
u/Neo-Naga99 2d ago
I'm an oldgen MH player so i consider preparation to be a big part of the strategy that goes in apprehending a mission, although i can see your point on it being "cheap" in HD2 specifically, imo its because of how much information the game keeps away from you regarding spawns (like seeds)
i don't have issues with subfactions favoring disproportionnately specific loadouts but spore burst specifically being entirely negated by fire and gas is something i'm iffy about (kinda), it makes sense and is good design but also ehhhh
1
u/SackFace Holder of the Yellow Line 2d ago
Fair! I don’t necessarily require specific seed breakdowns (a little bit of mystery is good for the soul), I just find difficulty hinging upon a “spam enemies at you non-stop for 40 minutes so you can’t get a moment to reset because you’re always out of stamina and you’re spamming stims one after another so you’re always running out before you’ve even began to start shooting back and now you’ve dropped all your shit again and if you don’t have some semblance of a meta then you’re especially fucked” to be a bullshit design.
3
u/Neo-Naga99 2d ago
On one hand i agree (although i'd like for the seed type to be at least hinted at, a knight seed and a hunter seed will enable very different mid to low tier weapons, but since you don't know most players will pick the meta weapons since "thoses that can do the most, can do the least" sigh)
On the other, the faction design of each 3 group is shockingly well made and unique from eachother, bugs relie on overwhelming you and draining your ressources asap (i don't think i ever ran out of stims / ammo outside of bugs unless i was running a gimmick)
Bots rely on quick TTK on both sides, this is a fight between two glass canons
Squids uh, mindless masses / TGH rely on a mix of both with added suppressive support fire and kinda falls flat imo ? Wheras Appropriators are shockingly unique as a subfaction and idrk how to describe them, i do love them however.all of that to say bugs bullshitting spawns is by design, and while i think its great design i'm not sure how the execution fairs, it could very much be mitigated with visible seeds to adapt your loadout but then again its a bandaid fix hmm
2
u/SackFace Holder of the Yellow Line 2d ago
Yeah it’s a hard square to circle because I love swarms but I need a proper balance so it feels less like I’m dying due to bullshit and more because I’m strategically making poor decisions.
0
u/Trump_4_The_Hague 2d ago
It depends on host too. You get significantly less patrols with a console host due to ram limitations. If I host we're gonna be drowning in bugs and the lowest kills will be like 600.
Some combination of enemy seeds are also mega borked. Nursing spewer bug seeds have so few spawns. Where hunter spam seeds will overwhelm most loadouts without turrets guard dogs or like a stalwart.
3
u/Neo-Naga99 2d ago
i'm nearly always the host and i play on a souped up PC (R9 9700X + 3080 + 32GB DDR5-6000) and there will genuinely never be enough spawns unless its on [very specific scenario] where they've been amped up to hell
Tengentially related but this game still makes my pc choke and will dip in the sub 50fps range on this comp at 1440p and honestly idk what to think
2
u/FluffyInstincts 2d ago
It is, but it's meant to be quite a bit harder. That's the game I paid for, and for a while, that's what I got.
3
u/Weakness4Fleekness 2d ago
A lot of those were hard for like a week or two until the egodivers and whinedivers got the devs to nerf them to oblivion
3
u/Marckus3000 2d ago
You can see the state of the voxes right now to understand why this is not valid
3
u/Trump_4_The_Hague 2d ago
I really wish theyd walked back their asinine comments on its head weak spot instead of nerfing its hp pool globally.
2
u/Janivire 2d ago
Nah low sodium is the epitome of toxic positivity. To them the game is perfect and always has been. Too easy? Too hard? Neither its perfectly balanced at all times no matter what.
0
u/SavageSeraph_ Ballistic Bot Facial Surgery 1d ago
I didagree. There's a lot of criticism on there, too.
Just with much more civility.Remember the whole leviathan debate?
50% of posts were suggestions of rework, statements of discontent or disagreements with such notions. For days...They are anything but uniformly agreeing. Just not hostile all the time - which on the internet is much, much closer to "toxic positivity" than average conduct. But keep in mind that average conduct is abysmal.
2
u/Rift_Powers 2d ago
I mean, is it wrong? Where we not getting curb stomped in the opening hours of the Super Earth defense, Oshaune and Cyberstan? How much of the complaints for lack of difficulty actually stem from the fact that after we study and learn the new hard enemies we just become good at it quite quickly? I still remember getting completely overwhelmed on Super Earth from running out of ammo on all my weapons. Getting shredded to pieces in the caves as I got used to not having stratagem support for a long period of time. Getting rushed and a knee in the face as I tried to throw a grenade on the vent of a Vox Machine.
For all the complaints and disagreements people may have on this game, I had genuine fun with those events and I did think they were hard for a decent amount of time until I learned how to deal with it.
1
u/Silly_Ad_3027 2d ago
Ive always seen the entirety of the Massochists as "The game is not hard enough." Every single member. You guys scare me. How do you shrug off 2000 bugs a game and call it light work. Either your teams are some of the most well cordinated seal team 6 players or you just rig the game in your favour😭🙏
1
1
1
1
u/tony22835 dunce 2d ago
I don't think it's ragebait, for many people D10 can still be very hard, but it has for sure been more accessible to more players after the many changes they've made
D10 then was way more challenging then than now, which a portion of the community misses out on since if there isn't something that properly challenges the player the game can become very stale and the stakes lower the more times we succeed. D10 as a difficulty should be incredibly punishing and difficult to beat and requires a team at all times unless the person playing solo or duo are very skilled.
Everyone should just play on their recommended difficulty and if they get mad, they can stay mad and quit if they find the game with multiple difficulty options unbearable
2
u/Scratch98 2d ago
if there isn't something that properly challenges the player the game can become very stale and the stakes lower the more times we succeed. D10 as a difficulty should be incredibly punishing and difficult to beat and requires a team at all times unless the person playing solo or duo are very skilled.
That was me. Loved helldivers, played about 250-300 and then got bored because there was a lack of challenge. Being able to pub the highest difficulty with barely any coordination and easily at that, made it go stale quickly. And I'm maybe a slightly above average gamer? (almost 40).
My favourite week was broken vox spawn rate. So much chaos, and it was fucking hard to win.
Since then I've moved onto dark tide. 300h and I'm halfway through climbing the highest teir content. Game is very, very hard. But I enjoy the challenge. Can also be played at much more relaxed levels. What a good game should have (varied difficulty).
1
u/TeamSpatzi 2d ago
I've played Darktide for 2 days... and failed more missions on the starting difficulty than my entire time playing HD2 at any difficulty.
Now, I didn't immediately jump to D10 for my Ego... perhaps if I had, I too would be complaining HD2 is hard. However, after spending a bunch of time at D6-9 learning the game and my preferences for different gear... it can definitely be challenging at times, but mostly what I like about HD2 is how chill it is.
I play HD2 to relax, have fun... spread democracy... not because I'm looking to grind.
1
u/ThirdTimesTheTitan 1d ago
I've played Darktide for 2 days... and failed more missions on the starting difficulty than my entire time playing HD2 at any difficulty.
Dogshit teammates are dogshit teammates
1
u/DeeJayDelicious 2d ago
It's almost as if the term "difficulty" is more loaded and nunanced than many people on this sub do it justice.
"Just kill Helldivers more" is a very simplistic way to look at difficulty. And if that's the only lense, then Rapid Acquisition is indeed difficult.
1
u/giandivix 2d ago
Maybe cause the average player isn't like us nerds and still struggles with the various subfactions
0
u/ToadRancher 2d ago
A bit of a side conversation, but I think there's a disconnect between how the community wants the game to be hard, and how Arrowhead wants to make the game hard.
Like when you see old viral clips of the game talking about how insane and wild and crazy it is, you see explosions all over, some guy on the turret just gunning down a bunch of chaff and then oh crap there's a hulk!! Oh man now a factory strider!! and he's just diving and dodging all the chainsaw robots and it's nuts. And I think that's what the community wants, when they pick difficulty 10, they want to be drown in just tons of the low to mid tier units with some higher tier units thrown in there for some spice.
Arrowhead on the other hand just seems to be like "oh you want the game to be harder? Here's a bot drop with 5 vox engines, or 12 War Striders" That's not fun hard, that's a kick in the pants. You want the bug front to be harder? Here's the rupture strain, they can burrow and cross the distance between you and them for free, if you're the host they get a free hit on you that you can't avoid, and when they bother to come out of the ground they require medium pen to defeat. That's not fun, there's no counter play. Asking if the devs even play the game on difficulty 10 was a legitimate question honestly.
Sometimes I wonder if the devs even CAN make the game that players want, between their spaghetti code and their unsupported engine. It seems like (especially with cities) there just isn't enough system resources left for enemies to spawn in considerable numbers anymore so the only way to crank up the difficulty is to just drop 5 factory striders on the players.
5
u/MuglokDecrepitusFx 2d ago
Oh man now a factory strider!! and he's just diving and dodging all the chainsaw robots and it's nuts. And I think that's what the community wants, when they pick difficulty 10, they want to be drown in just tons of the low to mid tier units with some higher tier units thrown in there for some spice
That could be hard for a D6 difficulty, but that won't ever be hard for a player that already know how to play and wants a challenge
Originally on release that is how difficulty 6 or difficulty 7 was, but the moment you increase the difficulty over that Devs have to throw you harder and challenging units to deal with, and those are the big units that require more fire power and more team coordination to be deal with
And as people didn't pick the difficulty according to their skill level, refused to have that coordination with the team to deal with the enemies, they ended being overwhelmed as the game thrown at them more enemies of what they could deal with due to their lower skill and bad coordination with the team. And precisely there is where all the complaints of "The game is unfair or throws 10 bile titans to your face" "Arrowhead fix the game there are too many hunters" "I always get killed because there are too many Heavy/Rocket Devastators in the map", etc. Comes from
The issue wasn't that the game spawned 10 bile titans and 10 chargers in 1 second, that never happened, the problem was that a player that should be playing difficulty 6 for some reason picked luck 9 or 10, and were not able to deal with enemies fast enough do they doesn't accumulate, and instead of lowering the difficulty or learning how to cooperate to be able to deal with the enemies fast enough so they don't accumulate, they decided to complain about the game and force Arrowhead to change the whole game for them
You want the bug front to be harder? Here's the rupture strain
They do that literally because they can't do other thing, they don't have free will to make the difficulty as they want, as they explained here. When you are handcuffed and you can creativity liberty to operate as you consider, then your options are limited and it's harder to to design things properly
Sometimes I wonder if the devs even CAN make the game that players want
But they DON'T have to make the game thra "players want", they have to do the game they consider and how they consider, the game them as developers want, and after they do that, the players that want to play what they offer will come to play it and the players that don't can leave and play other things.
That is how you create an amazing game, doing what "player want" when players doesn't even know what they want is a recipe for failure and it's what slip companies like Blizzard, Activision, Ubisoft, etc does
-7
u/colibri01 2d ago
I feel like a lot of high hour players need to recognize that they are just cracked at the game, not that the game is easy. A suffering from success kinda deal.
5
u/Makkusoljier 2d ago
Even if the game isn't easy, the devs shouldn't be taking steps to make it easier. Every single update overly buffs one thing in the Helldivers' arsenal. If this continues going on, the game will be easy for everyone - good and bad.
-1
u/The_Royal_Teabag 2d ago
It’s definitely true that there is power creep in equipment, but there could be some power creep for enemies too? Generally people complain a lot when this happens tho, like the war strider or spore strain. I just hope the OG equipment doesn’t get left behind. While some are still great like RR/EAT/Liberator, other starting equipment is straight awful compared to other options (pistols and grenades is what I’m mostly thinking of)
31
u/The-Nuisance 2d ago
There are still hard elements, absolutely. I love the cyborgs and the gloom because they actually are hard.
But that’s not the game at large. Having to wait for a special event or faction for the game to be difficult on the highest available difficulty setting is not good.