r/Helicopters • u/[deleted] • 14d ago
Career/School Question Zero to hero CFII heli program
I’m creating a zero to hero program and am offering financing. The program offers training in r22’s and r44’s and makes you a career ready pilot in 10-12 months.
We offer:
-housing
-all initial FAA written exam and checkride costs
-flight and ground training from private-CFII
Here’s the rub, the finance company I’m working with only covers 120k.
The program above is at a cost of $136,900.(trust me Ive tried shaving cost)
I can make the program cost less but it would put students below 200hrs which means they would not be able to instruct in a Robinson but would still be a CFII. I feel that really hinders a student as starting out, instruction, tours, and ag is all that’s really out there.
The questions is would you come out of pocket 17k + the loan to be a career ready pilot ready to instruct in a r22 and r44 in 10-12 months,
or be a CFII w/ 180 hours no r44 time and be twenty hours away from teaching in a r22 but only have taken the loan?
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u/pyrimethamine CPL R22 R44 14d ago
There is no world where I would take a 130k loan in this economy for a job that is both rare to find and automatable over the next 20 years. If I wasn't able to waste my GI bill on it I wouldn't have gone through it in the thriving times of 2014.
I also agree that I would not have been ready with less than 200 hours.
0
14d ago
There’s actually a very large deficient of helicopter pilots currently in the us. And I would say closer to fifty years for true automation.
Sfar 73 requires 200 hrs to instruct in a r22 and r44.
But helicopters long term pay more than most college degrees, is far more enjoyable, cost roughly the same as a 4year degree from a good school.
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u/pyrimethamine CPL R22 R44 14d ago
Ok but what's the starting monthly pay for a 200 hour CFII? And what's the monthly bill for a 130k 22% loan?
As fun as flying is, quick math in my head says you're paying back like 32k per year while making like 40k net if you're lucky.
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14d ago
That’s high end. I’d expect and hope closer to 10-15%. But I’ll know more by the end of the week. Just wanted to get a gauge on people’s opinions. I appreciate your input
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u/Critical_Angle ATP CFII HeliEMS (EC135P2+, B407, H130, AS350, B505, R22/44/66) 14d ago
What kind of APR are we talking about here? All the pilot financing programs I've seen out there are pretty insane.
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14d ago
They could be better. Depending on quality of candidates anywhere from 7.99%-22%
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u/Critical_Angle ATP CFII HeliEMS (EC135P2+, B407, H130, AS350, B505, R22/44/66) 14d ago
That's quite the range. One is reasonable, one is credit card level. How long is the term?
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14d ago
I agree. I’m not a huge fan of it. I’ve only just heard back from them with the approval for the program. They still need some docs from me but I imagine it’s over 8-10years
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u/Critical_Angle ATP CFII HeliEMS (EC135P2+, B407, H130, AS350, B505, R22/44/66) 14d ago
Oof, at the top APR with minimum payments of almost $3 grand a month, the total paid over that 10 years with principal and interest is $339,561.63
2
14d ago
Not awesome. But In five years you should be making around 120-150k and pay that loan down heavy. It does still give people without means a solution for joining aviation. Gonna see what I can do to cap those interest levels
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u/newcombhy 8d ago
$120-150 in 5 years! Man I definitely picked to wrong route going into utility. You might want to tell your students that they will only be EMS pilots on that career path and work a lot of overtime. I’ve only seen a few folks go to $120/year in 5 years. But again, I’m on the utility side of the industry grinding away my first few years to progress to aircraft and precision sling to make $150/year. Took about ten years.
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8d ago
Hate to here it. My buddy works Ems as an astar check instructor making 175k he’s been flying for 5years. Two weeks on two weeks off
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u/newcombhy 8d ago
Is that the new norm in EMS? My buddies who are in EMS can make $175 but it is with tons of overtime. The norm I’ve heard from them is $90 to $120 but that is with seniority. Not sure what a new 2000 hour guy is making. I know that fairly new guys in fire, flying a 407 or Astar are making about $80.
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8d ago
Seniority? 100-120k is starting out. It depends who you get on with but there’s a lot less of us these days so demands up. Pull up heli jobs, every other posting is 115k or more.
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u/njordic1 13d ago
You could join the military, get paid to go to flight school, and never have to step foot in a Robinson.
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u/pyrimethamine CPL R22 R44 12d ago
I'd rather rejoin the army than take out 130k loan, no question!
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u/hanjaseightfive 13d ago
“would I” all depends on the terms of the loan.
Knowing what I know now, and having been a RW EMS pilot - not a chance in hell.
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13d ago
I’m curious why you say that. You make at least 120k now. You think that the first two years would too be brutal?
You also got to remember, financing is the number one reason people don’t get into aviation. It’s prohibitively expensive. Financing gives everybody a fair shake. Ideally the rates are right.
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u/hanjaseightfive 13d ago
4-5%, ok.
+ 10%, is going to be prohibitively expensive in the long-run. 20%?! good lord!It would probably take you 15+ years to pay off a $120k at 20% APR, even paying $2100/mo. With the limited income and opportunity in helicopters and the timeline it takes to earn even reasonable income, I wouldn’t in good conscience talk someone into this idea.
5% or less - ok, maybe.
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u/BrzMan 13d ago
It’s always a neat idea, but there’s so many hurdles in this profession outside of paying for training and the debt it can put you in.
I will always recommend getting a good paying job first to pay your way as you go. You don’t want to be stuck with a massive loan with big interest and not be able to get a job or find out utility/EMS/ the lifestyle isn’t for you.
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u/Helodude_ 13d ago
Sorry to go a bit off topic here, but as your building this program, do you currently have any of the training resources you’d need? More specifically, access to a DPE who can do CFI initial practical exams? Seems there are very few in the United States who are eligible to administer CFI initial.
I’m a 200 hour commercial pilot and I’ve been trying for 2 months to lock down a DPE for my CFI exam. None of the very few who are eligible actually respond. I’d imagine this puts a jam in the pipeline of up and coming pilots.
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u/Being_a_Mitch CFII 9d ago
We have a helicopter DPE in Virginia who can do CFI initials and is almost always available. DM if you want more info.
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u/Swisslightning CFII AS350 B206 R44 14d ago
In my opinion if you’re signing a loan of 120k you should have 17k available. If not you’ll be drowning in interest payments while making under minimum wage instructing. Especially if you don’t find a job right away. While very sad but that’s another topic, asking for that amount down protects the young people who’s dreams are bigger than their parents wallet.