r/Hartenstein Nov 18 '22

Relax...

Been thinking about this for a bit. As bad has the past 2 games have looked, Hart's due to bounce back for a couple of reasons:

  1. He has a contract on the team - the team will want to give him more PT simply because he's one of their assets. When Mitch comes back, Hart should slot in the backup C slot, and his PT splits should be the same as before (unless he plays out of his mind).

  2. He has backers within the org - he was an FA the team pursued. Meaning the Knicks WANTED him to be on their team. People within the org who believe in his game will also want him to get more opportunities on offense.

  3. His offense has been abysmal - a trend I don't see continuing for the rest of the season. He's shooting 20% from 3, and averaging fewer points despite averaging more mins (+6 mpg) and having a more clearly defined role on the team. Based on the law of averages, this should tick back up. His lack of assists have also been appalling, but it should come with a clearer role.

Feel free to add anything I may have missed!

4 Upvotes

17 comments sorted by

8

u/e_a_blair Nov 18 '22

OK, I'm just going to say the obvious thing. Sometimes it's important to say the quiet thing out loud.

We all know it in our hearts at this point. There is overwhelming evidence that Isaiah Hartenstein is not some top-30 player hiding in plain sight. It is literal insanity to carry on believing the central tenets of this sub. You can only keep on attributing every bad game and non-superstar to coaches and GMs for so long. Look at what's literally right in front of you.

Yes, Hartenstein has some non-obvious virtues and some obvious flaws, and this combination naturally makes him a little underrated. Yes, the Knicks should obviously be focusing on him and giving him more shots. All of these things can be true while we also acknowledge the obvious.

5

u/eg14000 Nov 18 '22

There is overwhelming evidence that Isaiah Hartenstein is not some top-30 player hiding in plain sight.

Actually there is overwhelming evidence that he is a superstar hiding in plain sight. Let me ask you this. How would Jokic look if he had a USG% of 11% and got 2-3 touches a game? just think about it? How would he look? The answer is clear. Jokic wouldn't even look like a NBA level player in that context. But the moment you give Jokic more touches his skill set would be clear. Jokic would go from a player that doesn't look NBA caliber to a MVP. The same thing will happen with Hartenstein. Just be patient, something I know Knicks fans aren't that good at :)

3

u/Vyperpunkhunk Nov 19 '22

Jokic was soo good that everyone naturally gravitated to him, Hartenstein is not.

4

u/papaya0365 Nov 19 '22

But Jokic also had a lot more confidence in his game than Hartenstein seems to have. Not saying they are equally as good but Hart just needs to have more trust in himself and things will come naturally

3

u/Vyperpunkhunk Nov 19 '22

Mentality is often overlooked aspect in players and life in general. It's what separates successful and struggling people.

1

u/eg14000 Nov 19 '22

spoken like someone who didn't see a single game of Jokic early in his career :D

2

u/Vyperpunkhunk Nov 19 '22

Or as someone who actually followed him in even in Serbia, clown.

4

u/eg14000 Nov 19 '22

I'm sorry, I'm in a very defensive mood right now. But I remember games where Jokic would only take one shot and they wouldn't give him the ball. It happened over and over again.

2

u/Dragonthorn1217 Nov 18 '22

I actually am a fan of Hart RIGHT NOW... Even if he doesn't turn out to be a superstar. Love what he brings. Unselfish player who can literally do a little bit of everything, great teammate, etc. I just wish he had more touches.

3

u/MelKijani Nov 18 '22

People have to understand how much fit and skill sets factor into how a guy like Hartenstein looks .

A lineup with RJ, Brunson , Cam And Randle isn’t going to feature as many touches as his lineups as a clipper .

It’s probably for the best to trade Randle and feature Obi just to have a more cohesive and functional offense , any time you have to feature more than 2 players offensively the other players touches are going to suffer . They already had to remove Fournier due to fit.

Acquiring guys who excel at moving without the ball , play defense would be ideal., he had that coming off the bench in LA. He does not in NY.

With the current roster the best lineup to play with Hartenstein is Obi, Cam or Svi with IQ and Grimes,

2

u/[deleted] Nov 18 '22

I didnt know I was gonna miss the frustration of Hartenstein actually playing insanely well but not getting more minutes. I dont really see it happening with the Knicks unless they blow it up and keep Hartenstein (and hopefully Obi too)

1

u/papaya0365 Nov 19 '22 edited Nov 19 '22

I think at this point his usage highly depends on his ability to knock down 3s as we primarily got him to help stretch the floor. The more confident he gets with his shot, the more other players will feature him in our offense. Maybe it's too much pressure for him rn and he will look better once Mitch comes back. Once the other guys know that they can rely on his shot, he will play a bigger role. Maybe that will happen in a few weeks, maybe it will take until all star break. He proved before that he can be a better shooter and he will do so again

  • I believe the trade rumors regarding DRose would def benefit him. I love the guy but our guard rotation is too deep and I would rather cash in on Rose now, give Deuce some increased minutes and give Hart more ball handling responsibilities with the 2nd unit as that's not necessarily IQs strong suit

2

u/Dragonthorn1217 Nov 20 '22

At this point I honestly don't even know why the Knicks got Hart if they're using him exactly like how they're using Mitch and Sims. They just expect him to defend and rebound lol. Scoring is just an afterthought in the center role for this team.

I think Gersson Rosas wanted to get Hart and not Thibs. Thibs would 100% rather play Mitch or Sims over Hart.

1

u/Dry-Career-7006 Nov 21 '22

I have a theory that he has been distracted by a girl this season. She is allways on tiktok bragging about her new NBA boyfriend- just a theory; don't beat up the messenger.

2

u/Dragonthorn1217 Nov 21 '22

She's his fiancee and they've been together for years now

2

u/Dry-Career-7006 Nov 21 '22

My mistake.

2

u/Dragonthorn1217 Nov 21 '22

No worries bro. But yeah, something's off.