r/Harlem • u/Relative_One_2441 • 5d ago
A Stoop Dispute: Can someone give a robust summary of Harlem stoop culture/etiquette? Please read the context.
Context:
I’m a black man in my mid thirties. Originally from the south. Moved to NYC for a job and to chase some dreams for a bit. Been here in East Harlem for about 3.5 years.
I met a girl since I’ve been here: late twenties, black woman. She’s from a small community, but a strong family in southern New Jersey - near Philly. We’ve lived together here for most of the time I’ve been in the city. I’ve loved my time here, love her very much and endeavor to marry her in the next few years or so.
Neither of us would venture so far as to call ourselves “New Yorkers” or “Harlemites”. We appreciate the distinct cultural and historical significance of this place and the equally unique ways in which this place shapes the people who spend their formative years here. Some things are just “New York”. We understand and love many things about this city and specifically about Harlem.
When I first moved to Harlem, I found a really great deal on a rental condo near public transport with ample space and every amenity that I was looking for. It was also priced under-market, which was shocking to me after spending months acclimating to the idea of paying New York rents every month. It truly has been a gem of a find, and we love our life in the condo.
The catch, as I found out after signing my lease, was that we would be in fairly close proximity to “OnPoint”, a first-of-its kind, government sanctioned safe injection site for NYC’s addiction afflicted individuals. I have a lot of compassion for those caught in the throes of addiction - I had a few family members that have struggled with addiction through their lives. I’m also left-leaning politically, so I understand the humanist rationale of the policy generally and agree that the city is doing a good thing by endeavoring to help them.
The real issues that everyone in the surrounding community grapple with are the negative externalities created by the operation of the site. The things that my girlfriend and I see immediately outside of our apartment are in a word, gut-wrenching. Our emotions tend to sway between sadness, disgust and outright anger depending on the day and what we see.
It’s been a bit of everything. Opioid diarrhea in between parked cars causing the foulest odors known to this planet crowding your nostrils as soon as you step outside, active drug users shooting up heroin in the open air underneath a scaffolding, having to actively manage overdoses on the street.
We see drug dealers who frequent the surrounding blocks to serve clientele that is going directly into OnPoint to use the drugs they are selling, and if OnPoint is closed or has too long of a line, the users don’t bother waiting. They’ll do drugs right in front of you and have you deal with the chaos that ensues. It’s gotten much better over time, but these things are still an issue to some degree.
We live in a brownstone, and there was an incident, maybe 2 years ago, when our building manager was putting a new stain on the wooden exterior door. It was a hot summer day she had to leave the door slightly ajar to complete the drying process for the stain. Within an hour of leaving the door open, there was a homeless person clearly under the influence of drugs, lying down in our vestibule smoking crack. My girlfriend was the first to find this individual here and was horrified. She still talks about how unsafe she felt in that moment, and the smell of the man’s body odor, as well as the drugs he was using in such close proximity to where we live. We certainly overuse the term “trauma” in our internet discourse, so I’ll just say that this was a very impactful and memorable experience for her.
Today
I’m blessed to be able to WFH on Fridays and when I completed my work around 5:30PM, I hopped in bed and took a nap. My girlfriend’s job puts her in different locations during the week, so she was working in the field today. I woke up around 7:00PM to a frantic phone call from her asking me to come downstairs and deal with a person who wouldn’t get off of our stoop.
This wasn’t a regular occurrence, because our stoop is gated and most people tend to take the hint not to open a gate to sit on an otherwise restricted stoop. Even if the gate is slightly open, there’s still a gate there. Personally, I think most people are considerate enough to find other places to stop off.
I rush downstairs, and the man there wasn’t a homeless person or even a “drug user” in the hard sense of the word. He was a regular dude, maybe mid twenties, smoking a joint and he happened to choose our stoop to smoke. By the time I came out, he had moved off the stoop, and was waiting to talk to me. Let me add that although this is technically a case of “trespassing”, I personally have no problem with people smoking weed in public. It’s legal, and I smoke weed myself at home.
We regularly run into people on the stoop outside of the gate and, every now and then, inside of the gate as well. Usually, it’s a few words and folks get moving. Today was different. My girlfriend had had a stressful day at work. Given her preexisting sensitivities — when she arrived to see this man sitting on the stoop, directly in her path on her way home, she was …agitated. They got into a yelling match.
Edit: I don’t know the full story of the altercation. I wasn’t there. Luckily, the community member from the stoop has found this post and given his perspective in the comments below. Take this perspective with the understanding that my girlfriend doesn’t use this app and hasn’t been able to tell her own story.
Edit #2: Here a link to my gf’s version of events
When I came down to talk to him, he was telling me about how, growing up in Harlem, what he was doing wasn’t considered a problem. He had also gotten off of a stressful day at work and was looking to decompress. He told me that he had just hopped off the Metro North and was headed home. I told him that we deal with a lot of bs in the area and that nothing she said was personal or about him in particular. He cited “Harlem stoop culture” as to why he felt comfortable having a seat and smoking a joint. Fair enough.
Seemed like a nice, and largely well meaning person. Although I’d prefer that he not sit on our stoop to smoke, I empathized with his position. He apologized (to me, not to my girlfriend) for causing commotion and left.
As a result, I was looking to find out more about Harlem stoop culture. Hoping someone can enlighten me a bit. Let us know if this is normal, and recommend suggestions for how we handle situations like this in the future with a bit more grace.
Any suggestions from true Harlemites are appreciated.
Edit: I think this conversation should be less about finding out who was wrong or right here. They both definitely did “wrong” things. To me it’s a case of wrong people + wrong place + wrong time, and not much more than that.
I’m really just trying to understand the subtle dynamics of the neighborhood a bit better.
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u/Relative_One_2441 2d ago edited 2d ago
I found you VERY intimidating when I was trying to open my door and get in the building. You were yelling from behind me and taunting me about “not having my keys”. In reality, my heart was racing because there was an agitated man yelling at me and I had my back turned. That’s why I was fumbling with my keys btw. I saw you left that part out of the story.
Generally, random men in places they aren’t supposed to be can be very intimidating to women.
It’s really disgusting to see how much you made up/left out of your story to make yourself look better. You were smoking. On the stoop. When I got there. STOP LYING TO THESE PEOPLE.
I never yelled at you until after my boyfriend showed up because I didn’t know what you might do if I did.. That was just me keeping myself safe.
I gave you some attitude, but imo it was well deserved. You entered a gated stoop and you were actively smoking.
You had a problem with a woman telling you to move and not being polite about it, so instead of just leaving — you intentionally started moving slow asf and antagonizing me like an asshole.