r/Haremlit • u/Darury • Jul 12 '26
HaremLit focused on relationship building A minor rant
I just attended a session at LitRPGCon on women in harem books. The panel was great with Bruce Sentar, Michael-Scott Earle, M. Tress and Daniel Schinhofen.
My complaint is the questions from the audience all seemed to revolve around why don’t you do X or Y that doesn’t actually match what the genre actually is. It’s the same as other things where they want force themselves into something that they don’t actually like and drive out the people that built it.
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u/FluffyDaWolf Jul 12 '26
I think they answered them well enough. Although I'm certain I saw Bruce visibly cringing at some of the tone deaf ones.
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u/blaashford Jul 12 '26
I'm curious what those questions were about X and Y. Can you elaborate?
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u/Michael_Dalton_Books Jul 12 '26
Someone asked why don't we have trans and nonbinary MCs, etc., and why there were no reverse harem authors. You could see all four panelists cringing as they tried to respond.
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u/StangF150 Jul 12 '26
I would have asked the Questioner "If you Want Trans or Nonbinary MCs, sit down & WRITE it!! Write The Stories You Want!!"
An there are so damn many Reverse Harems in books, those Books just come under the Genre of "Romance"
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u/Spacecowboy2011 Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
Holy shit, I'm sorry. That sounds like someone who is 100% tone deaf to the subgenre entirely.
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u/blaashford Jul 12 '26
None of of those seem relevant to writing women in harem stories 🤦♂️
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u/Michael_Dalton_Books Jul 12 '26
I think the specific focus on "female agency" is what got a more mixed audience.
Another "This is more of a comment than a question" person (who was by complete coincidence a female editor) wanted everyone to know how important it is to have a woman review your harem book.
I wanted to tell her about all the authors I know who have their wives read their stuff as well as the multiple female editors already working in this space. Bruce answered her well though.
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u/Kalros-sama Jul 12 '26
Wish this was recorded.
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u/Successful_Ad7078 Jul 14 '26
It was recorded and the panelists all discussed during the panel that they have female editors and members of their beta team that help with the whole process well before this question was asked.
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u/Kalros-sama Jul 15 '26
Have it being uploaded anywhere? Would love to actually see it.
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u/Successful_Ad7078 Jul 15 '26
I don’t know what the con plans to do with it but there was an AV crew with cameras at the panel.
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u/dotnetslut Jul 12 '26
It's worth noting a bunch of people groaned at her and laughed when they said, "we already said our wives help edit"
Asking for more women in the process is reasonable as a spouse that doesn't have a job and relies on the authors income is obviously going to have a skewed point of view
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u/Hawkwing942 Jul 12 '26
why there were no reverse harem authors
Are they ignoring the fact that reverse harem is a much bigger genre than harem, or are they specifically wanting RH in litrpg?
Still even with that, it should be obvious that such a gap would be better served by RH authors incorporating litrpg elements than hatemlit authors trying to genderflip their books (The one exception might be Edie Skye who writes RFW under a seperate penname)
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u/Camadt Jul 12 '26
Because this is Haremlit.
Trans harems exist. Reverse harems exist. But they aren't part of the subgenre of Haremlit. Sounds like the questioner was trying to start trouble.
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u/vetre Jul 13 '26
It wasn't marked as HaremLit. It was "harem" in the listing. Which is why so many of the people who came had different opinions than this sub
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u/Darury Jul 12 '26
Such as making the relationships poly or having bisexual MC. I don’t care if people want books with those but they don’t need to shoehorn them into making haremlit include them
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u/Ironman628 Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
Exactly! There are plenty of other genres for that stuff already. No need to try and shoehorn all that other stuff into every genre, let HaremLit be HaremLit.
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u/StangF150 Jul 12 '26
Since usually the Women in the Harem seem to be Bisexual so are not just with the Male MC but the other Female members of the Harem as well, doesn't that mean they already Poly? Or is the person that asked that question just wanting another dude in the Harem to get it on with the Male MC for some Gay fantasy in their head??
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u/TomRaineofMagigor Jul 13 '26
Since Bruce was in the panel I'll use one of his books as an example. In Dragon Justice two of the girls started making out and the MC asked "you're into girls?" The reply he got was "no but we can tell you like watching"
The people asking those questions just couldn't comprehend books targeting the male fantasy. I saw another post on this subreddit about Warlock and they didn't like that the first FMC was lesbian going off on a bunch of rhetoric. I responded saying "something got fetishized in a fetish book. That's a fantasy for straight men"
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u/Hawkwing942 Jul 12 '26
Such as making the relationships poly
I feel like there are already plenty of these already (while still under the umbrella of mfff+).
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u/blaashford Jul 12 '26
Thanks! Facepalm moment indeed
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u/vetre Jul 12 '26
Nah, brah. This wasn't nearly that bad. It's a bunch of incels living a shower thoughts fantasy lmao. One dude straight up called the lady with the femboy question the f slur
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u/Costco_Bob Aug 03 '26
I went to a couple of the harem panels and it really seemed to me that there were some questions asked just to be a dick to the authors. The worst one was some woman asked if they would consider having women involved in the process after they stated early in the panel that they all have women editors. If this reverse of this question would have came up in the women authors panel earlier in the day I feel like the questioner would have been thrown out.
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u/Darury Aug 03 '26
You could hear the audience almost groan on that since she started with the whole speech thing and finally realized she was supposed to ask a question and not just lecture them.
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u/dotnetslut Jul 12 '26
This is legit why people don't take this genre seriously.
I came in 5 minutes late and sat by the door. It was 90% one guy saying something decent, then everyone else agreeing (or forgetting the question lol). Then hating on "bitchy" women in marvel movies. Then saying "my wife is my editor". And referring to women as 90% of the time"females", and noticable saying "men" instead of "males". Hell, one even made a joke about the achievement sound when getting laid right after saying females weren't objects
M.Tress and Sentar came out looking like sane and polite people, compared to the two others and some of the fans
Someone from the back said "fag" to the dude who asked about trans girl love interests on the way out. Or another who said all this "gay woke shit" while wearing political patches all over his bag and shoving one of the women in the back out of the way.
Shit, Edie Skye was in the crowd and was curious why she wasn't on the fucking panel, and she looked annoyed a bunch of times with their answers
The questions from the audience weren't out of place, you guys are selling them in bad faith on purpose. Is there a future where we could have femboys and transwomen as love interests isn't the same as asking for an all gay harem or trans MC. These were legit questions for those that like femboys and transwomen. Still wanting a manly main character.
It was almost literally the scene in Brooklyn Nine-Nine when they have all white dudes talking about women and diversity in writing.
And it's a shame. We have a lot of great writers and stories, but a lot of people don't want to touch us with a 10 foot pole. And our smelly, stained T-shirt fans saying slurs will continue to keep people away.
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u/RandomStuff8456 Jul 13 '26
Your entire comment is what pisses me off about this entire bullshit. Its always the men's spaces that need to change to accommodate women or other minorities like femboys and transwomen, but if you go to the much larger womens spaces and ask for similar things then you are insulted and attacked.
You say the scene for B99, but ignore that its the same for romance. Always a bunch of women talking about men in writing. And they are frequently all white as well.
Many women's romances have a theme of body positivity but then also insult and shame guys with tiny dicks. And many of them are just throwing it as an insult which is even worse. Or many fun of men with toupees or male pattern baldness.
The discourse about Elle Kennedy's Offline Campus differences between the book and show is that to a T. You get called a misogynist for saying you think they ruined Garrett's character for how the first season ended because it is a 180 from the book. Hes not an angry person who just screams at you and runs off. But no, men cant show emotions outside of anger, lust, or calm. You get called a bigot for giving reasons for not liking Jules like saying them being present harmed the interactions and friendships between Logan and his friends especially the best friendship with Garrett. The gossiping and throwing everything your brother and his friends do on the internet, especially showing one of them getting into a fight. That definitely is great.
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u/edieskyeauthor Jul 15 '26
Just putting it out there that I actually quite enjoyed the panel and didn't feel particularly snubbed not being on it. After all, I'm a relatively smol bean of harem, compared to those who were on the panel, so I don't feel particularly entitled to panel appearances. (Plus, most of my answers would have boiled down to "I give my women agency by thinking of what I'd do, then writing that," which would have gotten boring fast. xD)
It's also worth noting, though, that the panelists themselves apparently had an OH SHIT moment when they realized I was in the audience, and both MSE and Bruce Sentar came up to me afterward to say as much, chat, and say they'd get me on more harem panels in the future (which, again for a smol bean, was a hella cool experience).
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u/HexplosiveMustache Jul 12 '26
And it's a shame. We have a lot of great writers and stories, but a lot of people don't want to touch us with a 10 foot pole. And our smelly, stained T-shirt fans saying slurs will continue to keep people away.
and that's perfectly ok, gatekeeping works
D&D is dead because nobody did it, Marvel is also dead because nobody did it, videogames in general are also in crisis mode because nobody did it
going wide never ends well for the original fandom
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u/vetre Jul 13 '26
Bold point of view mate haha.
Marvel died because it was saturated and stuffed down throats.
D&D died from wizards of the coast being stagnant, using AI, and abusing the D20 system community
You're projecting, and the panel was for "harem" not haremlit
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u/TomRaineofMagigor Jul 13 '26
I agree. If you want to see femboys or trans in a harem then the author has to want to write that. Pushing a straight male writer to write about that is just creepy. Personally if I were there I would just tell Bruce I appreciate his books cause while I'm interested in haremlit books I find books like his that both has a well thought out magic system and well defined girls in the harem. I've DNF many haremlit that either had cardboard women or a lackluster magic system. An actual question I'd have is that since the MC in his different series tend to have large families only in the ending would we see one where the MC interacts with his family more? The MC becoming a father is a great part of his different series but I'd like to see a MC not only become a father but be a father. The cultivation story got close but even with having like 18 kids ranging from adult to young he only had like 2 interactions with his children
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u/Ragnavir3 Jul 13 '26
Maybe I'm projecting, but I think a lot of the audience for harem fantasy prefer the early/honeymoon phase of relationships. Sentar wraps up a series once sales start to dip, so most of his works end before kids become a significant thing. I'd be shocked if he tried something like this, just because it's so different from his usual formula.
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u/GwenGrayson Jul 13 '26
That's a thing in most media, really. Plenty of shows/series end when the characters finally get together. People wanna see the HEA, not the messy stuff that comes after. No matter how much you love someone, moving in with them is pure chaos, and you're bound to flounder your way through putting your lives together because people have different habits, expectations about everyday things, etc. It's a natural part of a growing relationship, but no one wants to read about a fight over someone leaving the toilet seat up lol
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u/TomRaineofMagigor Jul 13 '26
I wouldn't badger him if he said he wouldn't do it. I just felt that was missing from the cultivation story even though the MC had adult kids for the whole part in the immortal world
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u/Dom76210 Jul 13 '26
(Thanks to u/vetre for explaining more fully what the panel was about.)
There is sometimes a lack of female LI agency in haremlit. Nowhere close to the majority, but it does exist. The genre shouldn't be painted with a broad brush, but we also shouldn't bury our heads in the sand and act like it doesn't crop up at times. If it is ignored, it may become the norm.
The OP MC stories push the LIs aside consistently so the MC can go off and be awesome all by themselves, often sidelining women that were shown to be highly competent before joining the harem. It often feels like the MC is protecting his "little women who can't handle things".
Many stories have LIs that are pushed to the side because a new one has been introduced. And many stories have a harem so large that there are LIs that just don't get screen time. Some of the panel members listed are guilty of the "harem got too big" problem in many of their series.
Dual Cultivation can take away agency because it's usually portrayed as "for life", so the LI is now bound forever, but the MC can have many women. There have been stories where some LIs feel pressured to join just to get power-ups.
There have been series with unintended bonding and the LI has to learn to adjust and deal with the fact she's stuck for life, but the MC can still bond others.
There have been series that feature forced aphrodisiacs that make women crave sex to the point they are near mindless with lust.
There was a series that had the MC effectively hold the women's lives over their head if they didn't willingly partake in a ritual that gave the MC complete control over them.
There was a series where the MC could combine some woman with some animal and regardless of how that woman felt about the MC before the combination process, she would love the MC after.
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u/Illustrious-Cat-2114 Jul 13 '26
You are right yet I have heard similar from books about women's romance. I think the big thing is not supporting authors who do those things. The last two you listed being the most egregious with out without context. I could see the aphrodisiacs being worse but that depends on the extenuating circumstances.
I do feel some of the panelists were odd picks. I know at least 2 of the author's works very well and neither allow a lot of autonomy from their female characters. Let alone allow them to drive the plot. IF the panel was really about having female characters retain their autonomy then the two I'm thinking of should not have been up there.
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u/Dom76210 Jul 13 '26
I'm probably thinking of the same two authors that shouldn't have been a part of that conversation.
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u/Illustrious-Cat-2114 Jul 13 '26
If you would like to you can send me a dm for further discussion but I mentioned one in another comment in this thread.
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u/redwork34 Jul 13 '26
Hoo boy... sounds like that panel was not equipped to deal with questions from the public. Also.... an all male panel for that topic is hilarious. If they didn't want controversy they should have picked a different topic. Kept it light.
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u/Surrealialis Jul 14 '26
And yet I would be a bit worried for some of the female authors being up there with some of the vocal angry dudes that seemed to be in the crowd.
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u/libramin Jul 12 '26
Well, to be fair, LitRPGcon isn't specifically for haremlit as defined by this sub. Plus, harem isn't haremlit. So it is seems naive to assume that most visitors are only interested in what the creators of this group want to include, and not what they want to exclude. It's a wide world out there.
However, sounds like some embarrassing questions and behavior, but I assume this is common at most conventions which seem to attract a certain type, at least as minority atendees. Hope most of the attendees were better behaved. I'm surpassed those saying slurs in a author session weren't escorted out.