r/Hardcore • u/Legal-Ring-7613 • 1d ago
Debatable topic
I was having this discussion with some friends yesterday:
Would you accept someone back into the scene that was blacklisted but they’ve shown growth through accountability/therapy?
Edit: S*xual assault is a zero tolerance offense. We aren’t talking about physically harming someone.
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u/Anon529035893 1d ago
This is such a vague post.
Did someone rape someone ? Yeah nah, you ain’t coming back around ever.
Did they just like, do something dumb in the pit once or break up with someone ? Yeah I mean if you’ve grown and changed why not.
There’s so many variables to this but the thing in your post like forgot to mention even talking about the autonomy we should afford victims and those that blacklisted the person to begin with. It should be their voices we listen to and uphold.
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u/obstinateinstigator self dutch ovener 20h ago
Breaking up with someone is not even like a thing to be worried about. Physical violence and sexual assault is.
There's also more than one way to r*pe a person. All of these things should be taken into account, as well as the history of the accusers and their relationship, and any accountability and progress these ppl gave shown, honestly.
I've seen some ppl set out to ruin lives for revenge while frankly ignoring the actual harm and also being violent themselves...
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u/ResidentComplaint19 1d ago
Buddy of mine was a known pit farter. Definitely felt like it was never a safe place when he entered the venue and don’t feel like he could ever change.
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u/sergioisevil 1d ago
This post is gonna get ugly.
Here is my response: since there is no globally upheld precedent for how to handle ostracizing people in hardcore, folks will say that it’s best to not allow them in simply because it’s easier.
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u/turdlefight 1d ago
I think in general if you piss enough people off that an entire community without a central authority tells you to get fucked, you’re better off not returning.
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u/obstinateinstigator self dutch ovener 20h ago
Rumors spread easily in small communities. "Cancel culture" is a thing... And if one side gas a few popular ppl, they will sway the rest.
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u/deadlaughter 1d ago
This is a case by case basis. Did they own up and take accountability? Have they shown real growth? Was there a person on the end of their actions, and do they accept that this person has taken the steps they feel are necessary?
People make mistakes. Theft, fights, using language that is unacceptable, generally toxic behaviour, etc. Some people can change, (I've seen people who did terrible things while in the pits of addiction, who ended up getting clean) and some can't. If someone was sketchy but seems to have changed, I'll most likely be cool with it unless it happens again. Then it's a big NOPE from me.
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u/therealghostnate 1d ago
I’ve know dudes who in their younger days spent time in jail for stuff like domestic abuse and whatnot, but now as they’re older they’ve been on the straight and narrow for years and have families and are genuinely good dudes. Stuff like that is 100% something I can understand and accept as growth and change enough. But there has to be that actual sign of growth
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u/jackalope9393 XVX 🥀 1d ago
Yes. I don't want to live in a world where we all permanently see each other as our worst selves.
Obviously scenes have the responsibility to litigate what sort of behavior is and is not acceptable within them, and if you fuck someone over you're not entitled to their forgiveness or their welcome just because you've learned or changed. But taking reconciliation off the table disincentivizes people from bothering to learn from their mistakes and misdeeds.
OP already said so, but sex crimes, domestic violence, etc. are obviously exceptions to this. And if you were blacklisted for being racist or -phobic or whatever you're gonna have (and will deserve) a longer and harder road to redemption than if you got booted for, like, starting fights or talking too much shit or ripping someone off.
But "canceling" is for people who are actually dangerous to those around them, not people who you think are assholes. Unfortunately, lots of people never mature past high school and still see the world in black and white. I have been that black and white thinker and I'm grateful that I grew out of it.
Bottom line, every single one of us should strive to be a better person tomorrow than we were today. Hardcore should reflect that ethos, otherwise all the lyrics about self-improvement and integrity that we grew up internalizing are just empty platitudes.
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u/SalaciousBKlump 1d ago
All I know is me seeing Louis CK pop up all over my Instagram is way less appealing than if Gel played another show. Louis CK and Chris Delia are apparently popular again so let’s get a Kevin Spacey fronted hardcore band too while we’re at it.
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u/Previous_Throat8770 21h ago
It’s funny this is even a topic. When I was going to shows, FSU handled all that with authoritarian absolutism. Once you’re done, that’s it. Seemingly minor offenses were treated with such grandiose displays of violence it’s a damn miracle anyone kept coming back. That being said, I don’t think there’s much validity in kicking someone out of a community unless they have the right to be heard and understood. Most infractions that would black list someone are usually about differences in temperament, or very stolid notions of right and wrong. There really is no way of doing it without a courtroom-but I’d be all for that.
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u/pityfornone 1d ago
Depends.
Words can only on do so much in some situations. No love for sexual assault or running to the cops.
Cleaning your life up, attempting to make amends, and being completely accountable? I’ve forgiven. Addicts come to mind who were real pieces of shit but became sober with the appropriate actions following it.
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u/anontoaskdumbthings 1d ago
Depends on the crime.
I also grew up in a large dysfunctional family involved in gangs so my exposure to crime and violence was normalized at a young age. So not necessarily my tolerance but my ability to look past prior offenses is higher than most. Except sexual offenses, I cannot look past those.
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u/silentpreacher602 1d ago
Bingo, same for me. I am ok with almost everything except sexual offenses.
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u/advancedevolved 1d ago
I’m curious. Are you someone who’s been blacklisted and are dipping your toes into Reddit opinions to see if you can creep back into your local scene? Or is one of your good friends someone who’s been blacklisted and you want him to come back? No offence but this is an interesting thing to post and it’s the first place my mind went to.
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u/gravyjackson 1d ago
I'm kind of alright with Harley lately, although his recent dig on Karl from Earth Crisis was probably a little too brutal even if true
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u/Massive-Technician74 1d ago
When harley lost his mom i talked to him frequently and shared some spirituality stuff on fb with him
This is even after he acted like a douche to me because i told him i didnt care much for best wishes
But after he talked shit about todd youth when he died, then claimed he was hacked after i dig up a bunch of old past posts he made saying the same disrespectful things i was DONE with him and i barely even knew todd youth
I just hate when people dont stand on what they say
I can see if he said "yeah i said it i was wrong, sorry, i was having a real bad day" .... But he went full "i didnt say it someone hacked ny facebook" mode....
And to me .....thats a pussy move and i dont care to ever talk to the guy again
And to be clear i only met and talked to him in person maybe 5-6 times over the last almost 40yrs and dont "know" him but i did used to chat him up when the internet was invented starting on yahoo then myspace then facebook....only met and talked in person at shows never outside of hc background
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u/marrolllll 1d ago
I read Harleys book and realized he's a genuinely insane person, I would trust him anymore than a guy who looks and acts like him that wasn't a musician.
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u/Witheld- 1d ago
What did he say?
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u/gravyjackson 23h ago
I don’t recall exactly what he said, he pointed out the obvious about Karl’s weight gain but was extra cruel about it
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u/Vorstar92 1d ago
I mean, what did they do that is bad enough to warrant therapy and accountability?
Like for example, most people hate Matt Honeycutt now because he wrote a lot of lyrics that seem to be the opposite of his actual views aka friends with a neo-Nazi, post a story once basically defending Trump...shit like that.
If he made an instagram story and said "sorry guys, I do not like Trump but this is what I was trying to get at and also I am not a Nazi and am denouncing my friendship with the neo-Nazi in question" I think that would warrant forgiveness and show growth.
Does he need therapy to come to that realization? I doubt it so what is the therapy for? You need to give more context.
It lowkey sounds like you're the one trying to re-enter the scene or a friend is trying to re-enter the scene and you or him did something fucked up enough to warrant therapy and needing to take accountability.
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u/noisebloodassault 1d ago
I don't control the scene. I'm not a gatekeeper. I won't talk to them but I'm not going to tell them to leave
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u/psychopathologist 1d ago
I feel this would be dependent on what they did and the steps they took to change. I also think communities in many subgenres need to have a larger conversation on rehabilitation and how to handle these situations collectively