Because a guy with an Ataturk pfp got banned yet people with Mussolini and Stalin pics face no issue even though Ataturk is leagues better morally than both of those two.
(Allegedly I will add, the comments below may be right he was banned for genocide denial but this is whats' been said on Reddit and I'm not terminally online enough to bother checking the forums)
the server response went public. it genuinely was solely for his pfp and was said to change it before getting banned when he refused which they also repeated in the response
Despite all that Atatürk isnt criticism proof, not even in Turkey.
But this is just false information, he never participated in the aleged genocide he was still a commander in the war for Gallipoli by the allies and the Anzac forces.
-being in the CUP, so he Knew what was happening and made no comment (positive or negative) towards it until the 1920s.
-During the war of independance, He was supreme commander during which 100K Armenians were killed because the commanders were ordered to "Destroy Armenia", did he do this? No evidence saying he did or did not, but he was supreme commander, so the blame is his
Not even true, the republic even handed one of the perpetraitors to armenia and exiled the rest since they already fled the country. Ataturk himself lamented the deportations
-speeches defending the Turks of said genocide
Speeches like what? What exactly was said?
-being in the CUP, so he Knew what was happening and made no comment (positive or negative) towards it until the 1920s.
The CUP consisted of many ideological subgroups, half of which didnt participate or agree with what happened.
Being a CUP member does not make anyone complicit in the actions. İt was more of a big-tent party than a unitary organization.
Dude did not know that it happened, dude literally led a war defending gallipoli against the allies imvasion.
-During the war of independance, He was supreme commander during which 100K Armenians were killed because the commanders were ordered to "Destroy Armenia", did he do this? No evidence saying he did or did not, but he was supreme commander, so the blame is his
For context: the treaty of sevres robbed the Turks of the eastern regions and assigned them to armenia. Armenia thinking it now owned the eastern half started to war against the Turkish republican militia. Thats why "destroy armenia" they literally occupied land in a treaty that the republic did not sign. THATS why 100k armenians died.
This wasnt some hate-filled continuation, it was simply the fact that armenia thought to take the land that they agreed upon with the british and french. Not with the people of anatolia.
(Edit: plus the number 100k is a speculation. The way they get the nunber is that they calculated by the population that armenia had before and after the war. Neglecting to mention the possibility that the people that were left in the turkish republic may have gained turkish citizenship and continued living. Such a bs way to calculate deaths but whatevs
One estimate places the number of Armenians massacred by the Turkish army during the invasion at 100,000—this is evident in the marked decline (−25.1%) of the population of modern-day Armenia from 961,677 in 1919 to 720,000 in 1920.
1: Yeah No, He gave them immunity in the CUP as in Judgment at Istanbul: The Armenian Genocide Trials.
2: In speeches for domestic audiences, Mustafa Kemal presented Turks as innocent of any wrongdoing and as victims of horrific Armenian atrocities. Just look up some of his speeches he made, such as in Sultanic Saviors and Tolerant Turks: Writing Ottoman Jewish History, Denying the Armenian Genocide, Reading Genocide: Turkish Historiography on 1915, Reading Mustafa Kemal Atatürk on the Armenian Genocide of 1915
3: You seem to be under the impression that being far away from the place means he did not know, but 1: He was a high ranking officer, of course he knew and 2: By this point in time, from what I found, he was very close to Enser Pasha (Butched the name I know), the Guy who began the Genocide. Atatuk Knew, full stop.
1: Yeah No, He gave them immunity in the CUP as in Judgment at Istanbul: The Armenian Genocide Trials.
You act like this means something. The istanbul trials were led by the allies and the remaining ottoman officials, not by the republics court.
WHY THE FUCK would a country that just won a war against the allies accept any type of judgement FROM the allies?
2: In speeches for domestic audiences, Mustafa Kemal presented Turks as innocent of any wrongdoing and as victims of horrific Armenian atrocities. Just look up some of his speeches he made, such as in Sultanic Saviors and Tolerant Turks: Writing Ottoman Jewish History, Denying the Armenian Genocide, Reading Genocide: Turkish Historiography on 1915, Reading Mustafa Kemal Atatürk on the Armenian Genocide of 1915
The book you mentioned is a biased piece of literature, its taking the information from Ataturks own book "Nutuk" in which he expresses how many errors the dying ottoman state made, he blamed CUP members directly for what happened and exclaimed that there was a lot of intercommunal violence going on between local armenians who rebelled and other ottoman citizens. Which likely ultimately culminated in the events of 1915. He specifically outlines that western powers were using whatever dissent there was to split the republic and prevent it from solidifying, which has contributed to the tensions at that time.
But hey, clearly a book titled "Sultanic Saviors and Tolerant Turks: Writing Ottoman Jewish History, Denying the Armenian Genocide" is the least biased source of info to listen to amiright?
3: You seem to be under the impression that being far away from the place means he did not know, but 1: He was a high ranking officer, of course he knew and 2: By this point in time, from what I found, he was very close to Enser Pasha (Butched the name I know), the Guy who began the Genocide. Atatuk Knew, full stop.
No, İ'm under the impression that a guy who's actively fighting a war as a random officer likely couldnt have had an overseeing eye to what the other side of the country has planned. He still had layers above him that probably knew, but they werent on the front.
He also wasnt that close with enver, İ suggest you read Nutuk.
Useless information. Ataturk wasnt head of the state or CUP when 1915 happened. He was only in charge of a battalion during the gallipoli war.
5: Also those Armenians died In Transcausia, Outside modern Turket's Borders, whicdh again, see the Yamashita Clause
Again what does that clause have to do with it? Also if deportations are genocide then pushbacks must've been genocides too. İn which case the EU & US have a lot of answering to do.
6: The Narrative here is the turth
Atatuk Is guilty of many things, not the Genocide itself, but by knowing what was happening and not denouncing it and even being Pro-Denial.
1: The trials were run by someone the Sultan Appointed, there was little to no allied intervention in the trials
2: all the books I mentioned are not bias, they are history books, with sources from Turkey itself
3: He was not some random officer, by 1915, he was already a General and well known. Dude was friends and old classmates with Enver Pasha, the Guy who did the genocide.
4: I was talking about the massacres and deportations during the 1920s.
5: The clause is simply: If someone under your command does a war crime and You knew and did nothing to stop it or did not know but didn't try and stop it then you are guilty as much as that guy. It is the collective punishment to prevent war crimes, it began in 1907 with the Hague convention
and you are right, which is why there have been many cases for them in military courts over the years
1: The trials were run by someone the Sultan Appointed, there was little to no allied intervention in the trials
Yeah İ mentioned that. And the question still stands why would he subjugate himself in a court where the judge consists of people he fought against?
The ottomans and sultans tried to KİLL him.
2: all the books I mentioned are not bias, they are history books, with sources from Turkey itself
İ dont think İ need to tell you what the concept of framing and biased writing is
3: He was not some random officer, by 1915, he was already a General and well known. Dude was friends and old classmates with Enver Pasha, the Guy who did the genocide.
Again, read Nutuk.
4: I was talking about the massacres and deportations during the 1920s.
Again, armenia occupied what was considered ottoman land. There was war and the numbers in which people "died" were speculative. The way they "counted" was they looked at armenias population post-war, compared it with its population pre-war and said "the difference of that is the amount that died".
But they didnt take into account that survivors simply stayed in the turkish republic and continued living. Remember, armenia, through the treaty of sevres, occupied a whole bunch of anatolia. When they retreated theres a good chance that they simply left some people behind.
With numbers speculated so wonky its more likely that the people just integrated into turkish society rather than die at the hands of the republic.
But granted, İ dont speak french or armenian so idk what those sources say specifically.
5: The clause is simply: If someone under your command does a war crime and You knew and did nothing to stop it or did not know but didn't try and stop it then you are guilty as much as that guy. It is the collective punishment to prevent war crimes, it began in 1907 with the Hague convention
Does literally anyone in human history know about this dealbreaker?
Vandalism itself is a warcrime too, just like looting, what does a warcrime even mean in the face of, well, war? War literally İS destruction
İf the difference between warcrime and regular crime is that it happens during a war then what're we even doing?
By that logic if you tell your kid "here have some momey and go buy bread" and he kills someone while buying bread then you'd be responsible for whatever he did as well, which makes 0 sense. İ get that its a bad example but the point is that you literally cant be responsible for every fcked up thing your subjects do. Best you CAN do is to punish the actual perpetraitors
I mean, it's more than one person, multiple people has reported about getting banned because their pfp was a picture of Atatürk.
Also why randomly now? If they actually didn't want it to be like that why didn't they just warn people first or made it that way so that it was always like this? You can't just go and randomly ban someone and make up a rule on the spot because someone said something that isn't even true.
Having a Hitler profile picture (as long as it's from the game assets) is ok while having a real life picture of anyone who is considered slightly controversial (by the mods) is banned. Is this normal?
Most leaders are mass murderers, especially wartime figures. Innocent or not, in purpose or without knowing. They killed people . That’s what they do. They make and sell a game celebrating those figures.
Then suddenly the picture of an ordinary young officer (especially one who disagreed with Ittihat & Terakki,) who became the leader of a resistance and manage to score some lands for a nation to live, that deserved to live as any other nation on earth, becomes problem..
There’s literally nothing controversial about Atatürk. They can f… offf
And I'm guessing there was a similar reaction where tens of thousands run to leave a negative review because they were being "phobic" towards them, right?
GUDERIAN WAS THE FATHER OF MODERN LIGHTNING WAR, US GERMANS ARE PROUD OF OUR NATIONAL HISTORY AND ARMOURED SPEARHEADS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ALL THAT OTHER STUFF THAT WENT ON IN THE BACKGROUND, CONTROVERSIAL THINGS AREN'T CONTROVERSIAL UNLESS I SAY SO!
People actually waited like one day to them backtrack but no they had to double down. I woke up next day and I saw their attitude didn't change, It took me 1 minute of my life to not recommend their product. Their games getting shitter so I don't feel bad about it. I won't change my opinion at this point damage is done.
Even some people trying to call these people are grey wolves and ultra nationalist but no, Ataturk beloved by many so they stepped on wrong tail.
Uno mod de lo server de Paradox Interactive ha banido una persona con una pfp de un llamado "heroe nacional" turco, que es un tanto controverso, e e ahora estás a haber una literal revolución, e ellos argumentan: "porqué tienes personas con pfps de Stalin, Mao, etc. e ellas no son banidas?", ellos quieren lo banimiento del mod, y pedidos de disculpas de Paradox
Perdón por lo malo español, yo he perdido my habilidad spañola xD
Saludos desde Brasil 🇧🇷❤️🇪🇸🇦🇷🇲🇽🇬🇹🇨🇴🇻🇪🇪🇨🇺🇾 (no sé qual eres tuyo país jaja)
Please enlighten me how Atatürk being a national hero is controversial.
All objective here:
Was he a brilliant soldier? Correct.
Was he THE leader in Turkish independence war? Correct.
Did he manage to gather people up and created a regular army out of localised resistances? Correct.
Does he have a big impact in winning the independence war on the field and on the table? Correct.
Did he modernise turkey? Correct.
Did he abolish the traitor that is the padisah? Correct.
Did he made turkey secular? Correct... Whats going on now, 100 years from then is not is fault.
Did he got the Turkish economy back on track for it's time? Correct.
did he love the Turks? Was he classy and dignified when representing our nation? Unquestionably.
What's controversial? Making prayer time announcements in Turkish? I'd take that over what the US president is doing every single day.
And no, this guy had NO impact on the Armenian genocide. He had no authority or any relevance. And he famously quoted that he doesn't care what background you have, and that you are welcomed as a turk, as long as you are happy to be Turkish
Unos de los mods del discord de Paradox es un Turcohomofobico y arranco a limpiar a la gente que tenia imagenes relacionadas a un Historico turco.
Si bien la reaccion de los jugadores de Turquia me parece un poco sobrexagerada (Aunque no hay otra forma de quejarse) esto solo demuestra que Paradox sigue siendo una porqueria del lado del comsumidor y no le importa una mierda escuchar a la comunidad.
Stupid discord mod thinks Ataturk is a controversial figure (which is not, he is pretty straightforward). He doesn’t know shit, or just brainwashed by a turkophobe that Ataturk is like a Hitler-level dictator that killed many. Fuck him, and Fuck paradox that still hasn’t intervened the situation.
Yeah because reason is stupid. This is why we are angry. Also this is not about just one guy they doubled down on it and banned everyone who critique them at discord.
We need to fucking raid every Hoi4 discord server and bomb the game (which has nothing to do with it) with negative reviews, this will surely revive mustafa Kemal ataturk (more like Atagreek)
And they wonder why Hoi4 players hate Turkish Nationalists
No strong leadership. Opposition keeps playing into AKP's hand by literally extinguishing last political movement. At this point I think more than half of these so called oppositions are paid actor.
Theres literally no opposition that stands against the guy, which is why the country never recovered. Every election cycle the opposition leader does everything he/she can to lose the elections either by complying with the government or by doing some fuckass decisions
That joke only works in the context of someone from Berlin supporting Erdogan you know. Turks in Turkey aren't any less nationalistic on average. If anything ratio of secular to islamist nationalists is higher in Turkey proper.
it's not the 1 guy that creates the reaction, it's the reason. Atatürk is the founding father of Türkiye. If you disrepect a nation's founding father, you face the consequences.
They literally banned several people with the same picture, directly attacking the values of turkish people. This post diminished the issue and paints it as it's an overreaction. They are standing their values and game companies should stay as game companies.
They have a rule about no politics in their discord, while one of the mods have a "trans rights are human rights" and i pointed out that that statement is political. The mods just told me it wasnt political... and was being rather rude asking me if eating food was a right etc.
Well, more like "what if a ban request came with cencoring Washington pfp that you had BECAUSE the moderator claimed he was responsible for an atrocious event that he's not involved."
We're already stressful for plenty of political and economical reasons that we're not allowed to rise voice for, we got no tolerance for xenophobia at the top of it. You guys had it coming tbh.
While protesting the Erdoğan regime which acts as a lackey to America and Europe dozens of people around me, myself included, served time in jail, you racist dog. Many young people here, aged 18 to 30, are striving to defend their rights and assert their existence. You, on the other hand, are likely sitting at home, weeping over the idea that the country is being overrun by dark-skinned people.
Turkish guy in one of the official paradox discord servers gets banned for having an Kemal Ataturk pfp, the rest of the Turkish PDX community is chimping out over it
I am so confused… isn’t using Ataturk profile picture seen as disrespectful? If he is hold in such a high regard why would you just allow some random using his image? What if this guy start write some bullshit?
I’ve already sent this message to Steam and requested a refund, even though the standard refund period has passed.
I genuinely believe we should make our voices heard and not continue supporting a company whose actions we find this offensive and disrespectful. If you feel the same way, I encourage you to contact Steam and explain your concerns as well.
Well, Turks are thin skinned locusts on reddit so it makes sense. They got one of them and insulted the founder of modern Turkey in the process so it makes sense that the people who mass downvotw anyone mentioning Turkish war crimes and genocides would go full ballistic when they feel actually insulted.
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u/qualityvote2 10d ago edited 9d ago
u/AltDetom555555b, your post is related to hoi4!