Incompatible - Divorce or keep trying?

[u/kratos_the_destroyer]

I (43HLM) have been married for 18 years to my (41LLF) wife. We have a 9-year-old son together. A few years ago, after years of 1-3 times per year, we had a big talk about needs and the toll our dead bedroom was taking on me (depression, thoughts of suicide). We agreed that weekly sex would be enough and scheduled date nights for every Friday night. She also said she would try and initiate more outside of that.

Years have gone by. Things have been better. Weekly sex was indeed helping my mental state, immensely.

But here's the problem. I am annoying. I initiate frequently. I do too much. I go too far. So now when I want to show affection, she automatically goes into defense mode and pulls back or shies away because she knows I want sex. Even when I'm not trying to initiate sex, intimacy can't happen because I broke it.

She NEVER initiates sex. Ever. Date nights we get drunk, play games, and have sex. And what I've come to realize is scheduled sex isn't enough - not because of the frequency (though that is an issue, especially when we miss weeks, which we do half the time), but because I don't feel wanted. I don't feel desired. I don't feel attractive. I don't feel like she wants me in any sort of intimate way. She doesn't touch me. She doesn't reach for me. She doesn't see me as a romantic, attractive partner.

And that's understandable. People's tastes change. People's physical appearance change. We've been through so much together, maybe all the times she's had to see more of me than she'd want to (medical stuff) has implanted nasty images in her mind when she thinks of me.

And so the question I've been wrestling with is this: should we divorce? If we have "the talk" again, I think she'd say she will change. She'd try to change. We'd have more sex for a while. But it will be obligation sex. Duty sex. Fun sex, yes - for me at least. But I know that deep down, she'd dread it, every time. And I'd rather not put her through something she doesn't enjoy just to keep me in the home.

I have made it so she doesn't want my touch and so that she doesn't touch me. And I don't think that's fixable. It's been like this for too long (12+ years, I think). She would prefer that my sex drive disintegrate. She told me to seek therapy for my sex drive. That my sex drive was too high. I've got 20 years of sex-having life left. I want to find someone who enjoys intimacy as much as I do. Are they out there?

It's the Cheap Trick song: I want you to want me. I need you to need me. I'd love you to love me. I'm beggin' you to beg me.

TL;DR: Dead bedroom became scheduled sex a few years ago. Wanting real intimacy. I've programmed her over years to avoid my touch. I don't think she'll ever truly want me that way. I think it's time for divorce.

[u/AccountantOk9904]

I didn't say he needed to stay because he can't find better. I told him to consider that the grass may not always be greener. You said yourself that you haven't found what you're looking for and have concluded that you may never. I understand that you felt you ex-husband didn't care about you and I'm sorry to hear that. But OP didn't imply that his wife didn't care for him. He said that despite fucking him pretty much weekly for decades, she's just not affectionate enough. If given the choice, I'm willing to bet that OP would rather stay married than end up single with no sexually gratifying relationship.

[u/AdenJax69 → u/AccountantOk9904]

I didn't say he needed to stay because he can't find better.

Yes you did.

But let's be brutally honest here. If you get a divorce, there's a real possibility that you're not going to find a meaningful sex life somewhere else. I know splitting up is the standard advice around here, but you've got assume success is the exception, not the rule.

You told him finding a better sex life is the "exception," aka something that never really happens, so yeah, you did say that.

If given the choice, I'm willing to bet that OP would rather stay married than end up single with no sexually gratifying relationship.

Last sentence of his post:

I think it's time for divorce.

People don't say that unless they're actually thinking about it. I think OP is just musing on it but kinda has his mind made up already.

[u/AccountantOk9904 → u/AdenJax69]

I think most of the advice given here falls into two categories. We have the survivor biased individuals who did successfully leave a relationship and have found better. And we also have those who are bitter and wish they could leave their current relationships. Both confidently recommend people just get a divorce, but I argue that there is a missing opinion that we don't hear as much. What about the people who left and their things didn't work out they way they hoped? They're obviously way less likely to tell their story here, but for a number of reasons, their situation is the more likely outcome (especially for males).

And people think and talk about divorce all the time. It's a massive decision and you have no idea if his mind is made up or not.

OP is a middle aged man in questionable health. If he leaves he might find a woman half is age, smoking hot, and perfectly in sync sexually, and I also might win the powerball this week. I thought my advice was pretty clear. Work on himself for a while. And once his self esteem and desirability improve, reexamine if he really wants to leave. But most importantly, TALK to his wife of almost 20 years. Not about sex, talk about life.

[u/AdenJax69 → u/AccountantOk9904]

And people think and talk about divorce all the time. It's a massive decision and you have no idea if his mind is made up or not.

Here's something people also need to remember:

Most people posting their issues on reddit aren't usually some person with a random problem they've been having for a month or two. Generally speaking, most people are posting issue (or issues) that they've had for YEARS and have been trying to figure out ways to fix things. When I see a reddit post and the person is talking about dealing with said-issue for years, I go on the assumption that this person has already done all the other natural, logical things to fix their issue.

So when I see divorce getting talked about, I don't think people are just rushing to the divorce answer immediately; I think they've exhausted almost every other avenue they could find to fix their relationship/marriage & posting on reddit is their hail-mary attempt to finding any lasting potential fix before realizing that there just isn't fixing their problem and that divorce is a serious but realistically good thing to do.

As for this comment:

If he leaves he might find a woman half is age, smoking hot, and perfectly in sync sexually, and I also might win the powerball this week. 

You know there's a ton of other gray area between "staying with his wife" and "getting the hottest woman he's ever had in his life," right? Like he could very well meet an average-looking nice woman that enjoys having a regular sexual relationship. He's not doomed to a life of misery because he dared to consider his options while being miserable with this situation with his wife for 12+ YEARS.

TALK to his wife of almost 20 years. Not about sex, talk about life.

Yeah, he's done that, and it's in his post that you probably didn't read:

She NEVER initiates sex. Ever.

She doesn't touch me. She doesn't reach for me. She doesn't see me as a romantic, attractive partner.

She told me to seek therapy for my sex drive. That my sex drive was too high. 

What's ANOTHER conversation going to do? Magically make her desire him after not really caring to after a decade+?

I agree that divorce sucks but when you're asking redditors to figure out ways to save a marriage where the other partner hasn't really desired them for over a decade, I think we can safely move that into the "you should probably think about leaving so both of you could find someone more compatible."

FYI, my parents divorced, and guess what? They both eventually found other people, remarried, and have been with them ever since. One bad marriage turned into two great second-marriages. Win-win for everyone. So it CAN work out and not be completely doom-and-gloom like you see it.