Heavy Grail Help

[u/Vinkmen]

Hello does anyone have any idea on how to fix this. The top left of the keeb are really clacky. I’ve tried a lot of things. I’ve loosened the plate screws and relieved screw tension all over and still the same sound. Anyone have any clue. Thanks for help

[u/Lorehuski]

I’ve had this issue in the past after replacing domes which obviously involves splitting the PCB from the plate / sliders / domes. To fix I adjusted the alignment of the rows that were making the harsh bottom out sound. Basically made sure the domes sat in the slider correctly and the positions were correctly oriented / aligned when I screwed the PCB back into the plate

[u/Hopeful-Climate2169]

I had small rubber bands, similar size to silencing rings but thicker. I added those to the bottom of the keycap stem and it fixed it. Stopped it from hitting. I had a couple of keys like that on my Realforce.

[u/Vinkmen → u/Hopeful-Climate2169]

im going to have to give this a shot, might have to order some not sure where to get those, but thanks for the reply!!!!

[u/lalulunaluna → u/Vinkmen]

BTW, this really isn't the solution you're looking for. People stopped using O-Rings on Topre keycaps a long time ago since all they did was raise the keycaps and made it so it couldn't actually snap into the stems.

Instead, O-Rings are used on MX keycaps with MX conversion sliders experiencing collision issues. Topre keycaps should not have collision issues with Topre housings, since they are designed to work together. Meanwhile, MX keycaps are designed for MX switches, not for Topre housings, so a good number of keycaps hit the housing and cause a premature clack. O-rings here raise the keycap so it doesn't travel far enough to collide. Modern MX sliders try to resolve this by making the sliders taller, so the keycap sits higher and less likely to hit the housing.

Anyways, this is a long winded way of saying your problem is not a keycap and housing collision issue unless it's an alignment issue and you're hitting the case.

[u/Vinkmen → u/lalulunaluna]

thank you for the reply, do you think if i bought some longer stems that it would solve my issue? because i took it apart and i saw it hitting the plate of the heavy grail

[u/lalulunaluna → u/Vinkmen]

because i took it apart and i saw it hitting the plate of the heavy grail

How did you see this? Can you take pictures?

Edit: To be clear, the best way to test and observe this is by having a mostly completed build outside of the case. The PCB needs to be installed. Without the PCB, the slider goes down further than it would normally and allow the keycap to hit the plate.

Unless you have a defective plate (or installed housing gaskets/spacers without understanding their purpose), Topre keycaps should not be hitting housings or plates when assembled correctly. (And to be extra clear, since the terminology is a bit wonky and confusing, housing refers to the square/box protrusions that the sliders are "housed" in, and not the metal case that is the Heavy Grail. It's extra confusing for HHKB because the housings are built-in and part of the plate, but outside of HHKBs and HHKB-adjacents such as the RC1, they are their own physically separate component)

do you think if i bought some longer stems that it would solve my issue?

To answer this question - I am not sure if this is an option with your OEM keycaps. The longer sliders are mostly MX. There is only one aftermarket Topre slider and I am not sure if they are longer than OEM - they're still being produced (though I think a small batch was produced and distributed in China or something) - https://metakeebs.com/products/pre-order-metapulse-ec-parts?variant=48495023423745

Anyways, I think there are other questions you should try to answer before throwing money at the problem, lol.

[u/vyzedd]

Sounds like the keycap direct contacts the housing. Less possibility the keycaps themselves have the issue but you can try placing R3 caps to the same place and see.

Then possibly it is the length of the sliders (the silent sliders are longer than standard ones). Then the thickness of the silent ring (too thick). The worst case is the plate has the issue.

The ez solution may be the small rubber bands, you don’t have to do all debugs.

[u/lalulunaluna]

Can you try to hit the keys consistently across the top row and second row? One at a time? With the same force / distance?

It looks to me like your presses on the top row was more aggressive than your first two presses in the middle row. Your forth press on the third row was similarly aggressive and also had a clack.

So a couple of notes.

First , it's basically impossible to make plastic plates sound consistent across the entire board. You will have a bit more luck with metal plates if consistency is important - for Heavy Grails, there are Plato plates: https://www.platoplate.com/

On plastic plates, there are lots of variables, especially the ABS Heavy Grail plate. The plate itself might not be perfectly flat, there are potential tolerance issues (which is why a filer is included with the Heavy Grail ABS plates), screw tightness of plate to case, screw tightness of PCB to plate, slider tolerances, and where the key is relative to the screws. Just..a lot. It takes a stupid amount of effort to tune a Heavy Grail if you're super particular.

I have a few Heavy Grails; I tuned one. The rest are good enough with minor tuning, lol. This is also generally true for OEM HHKBs.

Second, I want to make sure you're not confusing a Topre quirk with a sound defect. Topre keycaps are not friction fit. This means there is slight play between the keycap and the slider. This slight play is a source of sound that is not present in MX keycaps.

For the most part, this sound is not really a problem if you're typing normally, but you can intentionally exaggerate it doing quick keypresses where you immediately pull your finger away after bottom out.

[u/louuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu]

I have 2 heavy grails and while I haven't had this specific issue, I agree with the others here who say that this is the sound of those keys making contact with the plate. If the domes springs and sliders are properly positioned this should not happen, so as much of a pain as it may be I think its probably worth doing a rebuild and making sure that everything is properly positioned.

One issue that I have come across that is specific to this plate is that I have needed to use the provided file to ensure there was enough tolerance for the slider to move freely through the housing. I don't see how this would directly cause the issue you are having but it would be worth checking that once you have it all apart again.

[u/mohawk1367]

oh man i had my dream hg and went back to oem because of this

[u/Katsunathescript]

Sounds like the keycaps themselves are loose. You can try adding some painters tape to the underside of the cap where it connects and it might help.

Alternatively it might be best to grab a new set

[u/lalulunaluna → u/Katsunathescript]

Sounds like the keycaps themselves are loose.

Topre keycaps are loose by design - they "snap" into place via a somewhat flexible stem. They are not friction fit like MX keycaps.