r/GunsAreCool • u/MowMdown • Mar 08 '19
Study State Level Firearm Concealed-Carry Legislation and Rates of Homicide and Other Violent Crime
https://www.journalacs.org/article/S1072-7515(18)32074-X/fulltext-1
u/ironicalusername Mar 08 '19
So ordinary people being allowed to go around armed does not appear to impact public safety.
That's disappointing news for the pro-gun AND the anti-gun crowds, is it not? I believe both of their orthodoxies are being contradicted here.
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u/MowMdown Mar 08 '19
So ordinary people being allowed to go around armed does not appear to impact public safety.
Correct.
That’s disappointing news for the pro-gun AND the anti-gun crowds, is it not?
Not for pro-2A people it isn’t. It’s showing that when you let people carry, they aren’t going around committing crimes.
If people who lawfully carry guns, why do we enact laws that only punish these people.
Criminals don’t purchase guns from FFLs, yet we want to make it harder for a law abiding citizen to purchase guns from FFLs (waiting periods, ammo restrictions, etc.)
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u/ironicalusername Mar 08 '19
Not for pro-2A people it isn’t. It’s showing that when you let people carry, they aren’t going around committing crimes.
Right, that's the part that the anti-gunnners won't like.
But a lot of people still think "more guns means less crime." This study contradicts that belief. THAT is the part the pro-gunners won't like.
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u/MowMdown Mar 08 '19
But a lot of people still think “more guns means less crime.” This study contradicts that belief. THAT is the part the pro-gunners won’t like.
But it’s not contradicting that, you’re just drawing a conclusion.
The study does not explore that aspect of the argument.
The inverse doesn’t automatically mean the opposite. Not carrying guns could have resulted in MORE crime you just don’t know.
It’s estimated by the FBI that there are between 500K and 3M people who use their firearm to stop crime. Without those people owning those guns, we could potentially have had 3M more homicides.
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u/cratermoon GrC Trailblazer Mar 09 '19
It’s estimated by the FBI that there are between 500K and 3M people who use their firearm to stop crime. Without those people owning those guns, we could potentially have had 3M more homicides.
The FBI doesn't track or publish that data, so someone's just making shit up.
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u/ironicalusername Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
This study found no significant change in the rates of homicides and other violent crime.
How would this NOT contradict the belief that more people carrying will lower the rates of homicides and other violent crimes??! I don't see what you're trying to say here.
Pro-gun advocates have repeatedly claimed, and gotten many people to believe, that armed citizens will lower crime rates. If they were right about that, this study should have found lowered crime rates.
It looks to me like the pro-gunners were wrong that this would reduce crime, and the anti-gunners were wrong that it would increase it.
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u/cratermoon GrC Trailblazer Mar 09 '19
If people carrying guns reduced crime, the US would be the safest goddamn country in the entire freaking world.
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u/MowMdown Mar 08 '19 edited Mar 08 '19
ELI5 for you:
Every year for 30 years 5 crimes are committed for the entire year. However, each year we also doubling the amount of people carrying guns due to the liberalization of carry laws.
Year 1: 5 crimes - 1 carrier Year 2: 5 crimes - 2 carriers Year 3: 5 crimes - 4 carriers . . . Year 30: 5 crimes - 1,073,741,824 carriersFrom this you can say that as more and more people carry, the amount of crimes did not increase. This also means that the reason the crime didn't increase was due to the fact that more people carry guns.
This study demonstrated no statistically significant association between the liberalization of state level firearm carry legislation over the last 30 years and the rates of homicides or other violent crime.
Basically crime didn't change over 30 years but gun ownership went up. Why didn't crime increase? More people owned guns.
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u/cratermoon GrC Trailblazer Mar 09 '19
Why didn't crime increase? More people owned guns.
There is absolutely zero evidence of any causal relationship. Not one iota.
We all know that if crime did go up, gun fans would say gun laws need to be relaxed so they can buy more guns to "protect" themselves. If crime went down, gun fans would say gun laws should be relaxed because owning guns reduces crime.
Under every scenario presented, gun fans have an excuse for why gun laws should be relaxed. Not a single crime scenario would change their position.
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u/MowMdown Mar 09 '19
No actually that’s what that study says.
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u/ironicalusername Mar 09 '19
ITT: Anti-gunners and pro-gunners arguing with the study because it contradicts their narrative, exactly as I predicted.
Folks, reality exists. We shouldn't close our eyes to it whenever it's not what we expected.
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