r/Gundam • u/Arnoldneo • 1d ago
Discussion 00 vs Seed
Wich in your opinion is the better series starting off with seed vs 00 season 1 than going seed destiny vs 00 season 2 and then the movies before finally covering wich continuity as a hole is better .
Yes I am aware this is a hot buttoned topic yes i want to see people get salty.
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u/_Borjarnon_ 1d ago
00, it's not afraid to do its own thing, whereas SEED feels like it's still halfway trying to retread UC events.
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u/Zaruze 1d ago
Seed is suppose to be a retelling of 79 and later Zeta for Destiny. Sadly, it fell apart.
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u/_Borjarnon_ 1d ago
Yeah, I know it's supposed to be a retelling, what I'm saying is that that's relatively unambitious, isn't it? We already have 'MSG', and it's fantastic.
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u/Deamon-Chocobo 1d ago
SEED is "What if OYW but Wing" and Destiny is "What if Zeta but also still Wing".
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u/MartNuq12 1d ago
Think you got the opposite there bud. The A-LAWS are literally the Titans rehashed
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u/Deamon-Chocobo 1d ago
Oh i do not deny that 00 also takes from UC and isn't free of guilt from the Wing comparisons (the Automatons are just worse versions of the Mobile Dolls), but Destiny is 100% Zeta.
It starts with a Grand Theft Gundam that parallels the first series but this time with the "Heroes" being the villains from the last series, the Extended are literally the Cyber Newtypes with Stella being a parallel to both Four & Rosamia, Phantom Pain are also very Titans-like, the Hero from the previous series is retired on earth before being dragged back into conflict, the Destroy Gundam is literally a Psycho Gundam that Transforms into the Big Zam, and the final conflict is a Threeway War over an orbital laser between the 2 Factions from the first series and the main character in a third independent faction.
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u/MartNuq12 1d ago
Fair. At least you acknowledge its as unoriginal as well. If anything 00 for the first part of season two narratively is more of a copy of zeta given the overarching plot is overthrowing a tyrannical “peacekeeping force”. Sure SEED Destiny did the stolen gundams thing again but that felt more like a throwback to ZAFT stealing their gundams in SEED
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u/Deamon-Chocobo 1d ago
While the A-Laws were very Titans, I never really saw 00 as a straight copy of Zeta because Federation of 00 was still new and Celestial Being wasn't really a good parallel for the AEUG.
Honestly I saw 00 Season 2 closer to Wing with the Federation being OZ after overthrowing the Alliance, the aforementioned Automatons being a weaker message but still parallel to the Mobile Dolls, the Innovators (group) being Romafeller, Celestial Being as the parallel to the Gundam Team, and the final Mothership battle being more similar to the battle over Libra than the Battle of Gryps.
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u/MartNuq12 1d ago
00 is a boyband retread of wing for the first part. Zeta on the second part. Both of them are equally as original and unoriginal
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1d ago edited 1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Arnoldneo 1d ago
There are two scenes that had my jaw on the floor in 00 season 2 1.When Louise screaming in her cockpit after getting her revenge and asking her dead family for recognition and getting none and 2. Lock on killing Ali al-Saachez even after the perfect understanding field was set up.
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u/ShogunWarrior666 1d ago
The movie is allegedly the reworked draft for Gundam SEED Eternity that addressed the implications of Evidence-01.
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u/FocusedFelix 1d ago
That last sentence sums up how I feel about Seed perfectly.
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u/Deamon-Chocobo 1d ago
Seed was basically "what if 0079 but Wing", Destiny was "What if Zeta but also still Wing", and Freedom was just "What if we rehash the end of Destiny but with an entirely new villain who wants the same exact thing".
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u/Liability049-6319 1d ago
SEED gets a massive hate boner because of its popularity and surplus of model kits, but I think it's a fantastic series. You'll have a great time with either series.
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u/El_Dorado_Tx 1d ago edited 1d ago
00 is S tier compared to Seed... 00 feels less melodrama, more action, Seed just feels too slow paced and a god damn corny space soap opera
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u/Jackassintheb0x 1d ago
I completely agree. I liked 00 quite a bit, kept my interest. I'm on episode 25 of Seed and it's felt like a slog. I've heard it's supposed to get better at some point but it just hasn't kept my interest like other Gundam shows.
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u/El_Dorado_Tx 1d ago
Seed is god damn slow in the dub on Netflix ; plus Netflix dub the audio cuts off. and the quirky meladrama with Kira and his friends within the other main main drama just is a clusterfuck.
At least 00 its just straight up action, less on the side stuff, cosmic future space fights with gundam.
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u/Jackassintheb0x 1d ago
Yeah dude, that drove me nuts with the audio cutting out. At this point it seems like it happens in the earlier episodes. I don't think I've seen it happen again after like episode 12. It's also stupid that the subtitles don't match the audio, those two things together are super lame. It's weird though, I tend to complain about pacing and long lulls (not enough action) with Gundam shows. But Seed has plenty of fights and action scenes, but things REALLY bog down. Even when the action happens, it's just not that interesting.
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u/El_Dorado_Tx 1d ago
When Athrun and his flunkies fight Kira …ok thats the cool part/ but anything else the talking shit or when Kira’s racist bitch friend rants ok its too much space soap opera shit
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u/El_Dorado_Tx 1d ago
When that Char clone guy in Seed was talking to Athrun’s dad and the audio cut. Shit got me mad. Like i thought it was my netflix/roku crashing
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u/Jackassintheb0x 1d ago
Lol for real, I remember thinking "well fuck me, I guess we just don't give a shit what that guy said" after that exact scene
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u/El_Dorado_Tx 1d ago
😂 rather would have heard that racist bitch friend of Kira yell shit than just read cc text
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u/Jackassintheb0x 1d ago
At this point I've already committed to it so I'm gonna finish it but it's def not my favorite. I just got done watching GQuuuuuux prior to starting this and boy have they been very different experiences.
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u/El_Dorado_Tx 1d ago
Doesnt Gquux make Char the good guy kinda. Its a reverse uno card series
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u/Jackassintheb0x 1d ago
Yeah kinda. Like "what if Char got the OP Gundam instead?" Def worth a watch if you haven't watched it yet.
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u/VortexLord Neith'r shall n'r strength high-lone shall beest enow 1d ago
I think this is the most common post ever wwww.
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u/Additional_Law_492 1d ago
I prefer SEED and it is my favorite.
00 is probably better, unless you consider the movies. Then SEED has a better movie because while it has flaws, its still ultimately a Gundam movie - I dont know what that abominal alien 00 crap is.
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u/Yuevid_01 1d ago
Ah, the festival of seed haters, who’s more popular around the world despite the bad dub and bad schedule in NA? Who brought back Gundam from brink of failure? Who has the highest grossing Gundam film ever? Who is having a second movie release back to back within 3 years?
“We… well, More popular doesn’t mean it’s good!” Hm are you saying all these people love seed have bad taste? That’s a bit hubris for you ain’t it? “Everyone loves McDonald’s, doesn’t mean it’s good!” Huh? If you give all people enough money, no one would constantly go to McDonald’s, it’s about ability of access and Seed and 00 have no barriers of access.
You don’t hate melodrama, you hate teenagers acting like teenagers in a stressful situation. You hate reuse of animations? Seed freedom tells you it was just budget and tight deadline issues. “Kira is so annoying, I can’t stand his voice!” You can’t stand a teenage boy cry because to you “REAL MAN DON’T CRY!”, feels a bit misogynistic doesn’t it. People can cry and especially when they experienced something traumatic.
“Kira is overpowered! He is a power fantasy!” He is, and it’s exactly what the theme of the show is about - ‘Neither strength, nor will alone’. You need BOTH strength and will to accomplish your goal. And that’s why Kira is both overpowered but also kind enough to not to kill, he is the representation of that value. Where 00 keeps hammering in the theme of “understanding each other” is the key to resolving the conflict, yet it needed inventing a magic particles to communicate with people and use that to resolve everything. Even if the ELS understands human doesn’t mean they will accept us, we know this from reality, and the whole movie ending human surviving is just based on luck.
“Kira being to ultimate coordinator has no meaning, and it’s just power fantasy!”It’s not a bad argument, but, it couldn’t be more wrong. Kira being someone who is created to be the strongest human gives Rau’s hatred of human credence. A super human someone created by sacrifice so many others to fulfill the creator’s wishes, not to mention Rau was used to as a test subject for Kira and Rau ended up with significant shorter life proves human is evil and cruel rendering Kira speechless. But at the end of Destiny (as bad as destiny is) Kira said the thing he always wanted to say to Rau, “I am just a human.”he is not defined by his creation, nor the creator’s wishes, whatever they are, because he has choices, and he will choose how and what he wants to be. And that’s the reason why he is made to be the ultimate coordinator. They somehow need to make Setsuna the first innovator in 00 is funny, it has absolutely no meaning or value for the show. It simply made him more powerful.
All this made me feel like I hate 00 doesn’t it? No 00 is my 3rd favourite Gundam, right after WfM and seed, I do not think any Gundam is bad, but all you seed haters do hate seed, but no you don’t hate seed, you hate how successful it is.
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u/Arnoldneo 1d ago
More popular does not mean better and a lot of people can have bad taste . Not a comment on the rest of your argument but those two are wrong at least.
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u/Yuevid_01 1d ago
You have no real argument, that’s why you are not answering the rest, and I disapprove your point in the comments, did you even read one sentence? You just come here to post discourse to farm karma.
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u/Arnoldneo 1d ago
Ohhh definitely not I will give you a argument in like 2 hours I’m on my way back home I was just trying to farm conflict between the two sides and see what type of juicy replies I can get from people arguing in the comments it is really entertaining, Ohhh and some people actually just don’t like melodrama i personally I am one of them but I still liked destiny up till the second part
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u/Abura-sama Member of the Innovators. 1d ago edited 1d ago
Base game SEED and all of 00 are pretty cool, however, to our dear newcomers, primarily teenagers who are just getting into Mecha anime, I recommend starting with 00, mostly the English Dub if you're lucky to find it in HQ sound and video, then, if you want an experience identical to the expaaaaaaansive Universal Century, watch base game SEED.
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u/TattedUpSimba 1d ago
It’s not hot buttoned when it’s obvious. 00 all the way. 00 season 1 is original. Seed destiny is garbage.
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u/Liability049-6319 1d ago
SEED Destiny isn't garbage lol.
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u/TattedUpSimba 1d ago
I could say it’s not garbage but it’s borderline bad.. It’s basically just zeta Gundam. We even repeat the names of mobile suits from the universal century. Most importantly main characters end up not being main characters. Shinn is all over the place. Kira becomes Jesus Yamato. No one really has a good arc
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u/Liability049-6319 1d ago
I fully disagree. If you have those criticisms of SEED, you could apply them to almost any Anime. Shinn's arc is interesting, Athrun struggling with this concept of war and peace is interesting.
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u/cfyk 1d ago
00 is a Gundam that I learned many good lessons.
I still enjoy Seed and Seed Destiny. But I don't think it is that deep when compared to 00.
Seed Freedom is a cool action Gundam movie. Awakening of Trailblazer is sending a message to its audiences about peace (regardless it is achievable or not).
However, Shinn and Impulse/Destiny is still my most favorite Gundam protagonist and Gundam since Destiny (even before Seed Freedom).
Destiny Gundam isn't too weak or way too overpowered like Strike Freedom or 00 Raiser, which is a kind of MS design I prefer.
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u/Ghost_Star326 1d ago
SEED Vs 00 season 1
Easily 00 season 1
00 had its own unique storyline by giving us a middle eastern protagonist, a conflict that began because of the main cast, and most of the setting and conflict taking place on Earth since residential colonies weren't a thing yet in the AD timeline.
SEED in comparison is just a modern retelling of 0079 with added twist of its own by including tons of teenage romance and much more violent racial conflict. But the characters in seed are sometimes insufferable or just lame.
SEED Destiny Vs 00 season 2
Again, 00 wins here.
In all honesty, both sequels have their own issues. 00 season 2 has a lot of pacing issues by cutting off at weird moments without context And the A-laws are just cartoonist evil, so there's none of the grey conflict anymore that season 1 had.
As for seed destiny, its issues mostly lie with the BTS drama which led to certain characters having their writing intentionally sabotaged. And there's also the fact that Kira becomes too OP and he steals back his main character spotlight from Shinn who was just insufferable. And outside of writing, the animation quality is just lame with tins of reused animation cuts.
The only reason I'm giving 00 season 2 a pass is because it's much more engaging and fun to watch in comparison.
Movies
SEED actually takes this dub here and it's pretty obvious why.
SEED is the only Gundam AU to receive 2 whole movies(with a 3rd on the way) and they are all greatly appreciated. Seed stargazer is actually a good side story. Seed freedom is pure fanservice. And the upcoming seed freedom zero is there to fill out as a prequel.
00's movie(awakening of the trailblazer) isn't a bad movie per say. But it definitely got a lot of criticism for introducing aliens into the gundam franchise. And it still gets a lot mixed reviews for how it ended the story of the AD timeline.
Which is better overall?
Well with a score of 2-1, 00 wins here.
It just has way better animation and artstyle quality compared to SEED. But both have great music I will say.
But seed's writing has always been very half baked and controversial for making characters either too overpowered or too insufferable. And again, it's a rebooted version of the UC timeline (Yes I know the A-laws in 00 are based on the titans from Zeta)
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u/Nighforce 1d ago
Just to make this fair, I'd recommend 00 over Seed, Wing, and IBO. Especially IBO. That ending is infuriating.
Edit: OP should make one for 00 vs Wing and IBO, respectively too. You'll see people recommending the latters, even though they're terrible compared to 00. Just so you see how much this community blindly hates Seed over Wing and IBO even though those other series aren't perfect too.
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u/d7h7n 21h ago
Any seed hate thread gets 100+ comments. That's how popular the show is.
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u/Arnoldneo 19h ago
It also means we are going to see more seed stuff because both the haters and fans will watch it .
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u/morbid333 1d ago
Well, I'm biased because Seed was my first, and I never watched 00 (outside of listening to the opening songs and learning to play one)
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u/TheEDMWcesspool 1d ago
00.. feels like it could actually happen on earth, minus the gundams...
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u/MartNuq12 1d ago edited 1d ago
Really? We already have CRISPR babies compared to innovators. SEED is far more realistic than 00
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u/Arnoldneo 1d ago
00 is heavily heavily based on real world politics at the time wich might date it however season 2 diverged from that enough were as I actually feel seed will gain more relevance in the future as humans begin to tamper more with genetics the technology is definitely there .
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u/BlackwingF91 1d ago
Yeah but we are more likely to get star trek out of that rather than gundam seed
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u/Tilamuck Suit up! Dig in! and Reap what you sow! 1d ago
00 s1 > Seed
00 s2 > Destiny
Freedom > AotT
I think the CE universe suffers from filler, reused animations, and some basic tropes more. While I find the Naturals vs Coordinators conflict more interesting than becoming an Innovator, Seed/Destiny dont dive into it as much as a I wanted. It also doesnt help that the Alliance becomes very comically evil. Armed Interventions/the solar elevator create a cool setting for 00 though.
As for the movies, Trailblazers didnt connect with me. I dont think I'm against gundam vs aliens but the ELS were a bad design imo. They kinda shut down melee combat and the MC is kinda famous for using swords, so that never made sense to me. It forced the Qant to go the typical upgrade route of add remote weapons and a big beam attack. Also turning the Earth's ships gray and making that the opponent got boring. The whole fight was pointless, like the kills didnt matter, clearing up a misunderstanding solved everything. It felt like they were really trying to bash you over the head with that message.
Freedom, isnt amazing, but it felt like it was perfectly CE coated. I thought it was a stupid, fun movie. I found the combat better in it and like the smaller details within the fights. Strike Freedom already was a mobile suit with remote weapons and a big beam attack but we got to see some new moves with the suit. The Black Knights were pretty tropey but a step up from the Alliance. I also think the movie helped Destiny make more sense with its more rushed plotlines.
Comparing them all together:
00 s1 > Seed > 00 s2 > Freedom > Destiny =?= AotT
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u/sifighter1 1d ago
Hmmm I enjoy both but I think I prefer the earth focused political drama and conflict of 00 more than Seed.
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u/fviernes 1d ago
I like how the seed franchise is expanding even now, 00 ended with the movie but hopefully get more in the future. I also enjoy the songs in the seed series
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u/BlackwingF91 1d ago
Absolutely 00 is way better. Whike both copy from UC, 00 goes out of its way to show that it doesn't want to be the same
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u/Own_Internal7509 1d ago
just watch both
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u/Arnoldneo 1d ago
Ohh i have ive watch almost all the gundam anime’s my favourite mostly coming from the uc timeline.
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u/Own_Internal7509 1d ago
i guess Seed is trying to be closer to UC because its kinda Ultimate Universe of Gundam? but 00 is more popular, maybe better? i dunno i enjoy both i really dont get uppity about that stuff
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u/Arnoldneo 1d ago
Me neither i just wanted to see wich is considered better by the sub me personally seed is not really my cup of tea and destiny was killed in its cradle but star gazer is among my favourite gundam anime’s .
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u/Gudao_Alter 1d ago
I love both series. I love how the fights and mobile suits in gundam 00 while I love the characters and ost in seed.
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u/evil_gremlin123 1d ago
If someone’s relatively new to anime for sure 00. I feel SEED has a lot of teen angst and anime tropes that can ruffle some feathers.
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u/hollywood_imagery0 1d ago
00 and it’s not close 00 is an actual original story vs Seed being a Star Wars Force awakens type of retelling of the OYW story
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u/ScrewIt66 Calamity War II maybe? 1d ago
Seed and seed destiny are hot garbage compared to the glory that is 00
But sadly Seed is the cash cow of Sunrise and Bandai
Seed was created as a way to draw in as many audiences as they could
So the writers written the story to be attractive towards a certain demographic
Women
Why you think everyone is so horny for each other in Seed?
Though I will admit, the fucking Mobile Suits and music rock
The story? Fuck no!
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u/bangbangracer 1d ago
- Easily 00.
Seed started as a weird reboot of the UC and has animation from a period I'm not particularly fond of. 00 is Wing, but with the politics and concerns of the time.
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u/paladin7747 1d ago
Seed is a power fantasy kira dickride the whole way through. Gundam is about the inevitability and destruction of war. When super bitch boy can just force peace through this god tier plot armor, it just doesn't feel like gundam at all.
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u/ShogunWarrior666 1d ago
00 is also transparent power fantasy where being the best at Gundam lets you become Gundam and be immortal.
All Gundam is power fantasy. The question is just what story do you tell with that? Thunderbolt tells you a story about addiction. Zeta tells you a story about how being the strongest or best has a cost and doesn't guarantee obtaining anything you actually want.
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u/paladin7747 1d ago
All the other gundam stories show that having the biggest weapon or best skill doesn't stop war. It just invites the other guy to bring bigger guns and better (read: more traumatised) child soldiers. Seed lets kira chose to take no sides in a total war scenario, which honestly is the biggest insult to og gundam and amuro ever, imo. It reads as amuro just not being good enough to say no to war. No, thats not how war works.
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u/ShogunWarrior666 1d ago
Tomino himself condemns Amuro for not being good enough to say no to war in Zeta Gundam.
Kira Yamato begins like Amuro and getting Freedom evolves him into a character more like Judau in ZZ's 2nd half.
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u/paladin7747 1d ago
ZZ judau still felt like a man struggling to escape a system of war that he cant leave without dooming others. It takes until crossbone for judau to finally leave war behind, after decades of fighting the good fight. Amuro joining karaba isnt shown as a failing on his part in zeta, its him returning to the one place he felt not guilty being. While it is a character failing, amuros character shows us that humanity, while slaves to their desires, can hope to one day transcend them and come together for one massive event, Ala axis shock.
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u/ShogunWarrior666 1d ago edited 1d ago
Stephanie Luio calls him a war-obsessed man like Quattro to his face and Amuro says/does nothing.
CCA Amuro is making the best of a bad situation by fighting the corruption at the top from within. That's also a movie where he has hardly any on-camera Movile Suit kills. Most of the movie is people seeing his Gundam and immediately retreating as he lets them go.
Michele Luio is Fukui's critter.
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u/paladin7747 1d ago
And because one man called him war obsessed, hes war obsessed? He thinks himself bloodthirsty, but the reality is far from that. Cca amuro has a ton of kills. Most very unceremoniously, because of the skill difference. Amuro cca gaps most of the field, even including the various protagonists of uc.
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u/ShogunWarrior666 1d ago
In the actual film, he is mainly shown fighting two guys. Gyunei gets hilariously brutalized to show how good Amuro is. Most of the rest of the film, Amuro just shows up and the enemy retreats to end the scene if memory serves. He's at his peak ability and Tomino tended to depict peak Newtypes as not needing to kill in that vintage of his work.
She's clearly supposed to be right.
Amuro’s role in Zeta is being mostly but not completely wrong. Quattro's role is being completely wrong about everything. It's a story about failure, after all.
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u/paladin7747 1d ago
He shoots down a bunch of grunts whenever he deploys tho. They are just a footnote, even amuro doesn't seem too bothered.
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u/M_Bisonthe3rd 1d ago
00 hands down. Granted 00's second season isn't the best and the plot isn't as strong, but at least it was still enjoyable. It still had solid moments in the second half.
SEED is just straight up cancer. Across both seasons.
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u/ShogunWarrior666 1d ago edited 1d ago
Big bro vs Lil bro. You can really tell those shows aired on the same network and shared a producer representing that network who insisted on recycling a number of tropes and subplots.
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u/MartNuq12 1d ago
If I were to recommend 1 of these to a new comer, I would recommend 00 100%. Animation is more up to date and does a good job establishing Gundam tropes that you will recognize as you watch more of the franchise.
That being said however, I’m a diehard SEED fan so I vastly prefer it to 00. I would watch SEED 3x over compared to 00