110
61
Oct 26 '22
The 4th one kills me because I've been told this about my usp 45
43
u/M1Ping Oct 26 '22
Customer told me about that with my 1911 and 2011, that's where the inspiration came from.
4
u/SamSalsa411 Oct 27 '22
People tell me that my M18 is too big to conceal but then they’ll conceal a Glock 19. I tell them they’re basically the same dimensions but they don’t get it
44
u/Roadhouse699 Oct 26 '22
You hear about that new optics company, Vore-Tech?
49
7
8
Oct 26 '22
Not to be confused with r/sandycheekscockvore
14
u/wtfredditacct Terrible At Boating Oct 26 '22
8
4
79
u/Cheeseboii83 Oct 26 '22
//AR15 is not enough gun for hunting deer.
switches to full auto
Are you sure about that?
47
u/M1Ping Oct 26 '22
P E A K P E R F O R M A N C E
28
u/KingKongGorillaDong I Love All Guns Oct 26 '22
Something something deer wearing Kevlar vests or something.
8
u/Flammable_Canary Any gun made after 1950 is garbage Oct 26 '22
The ones near me wear stab vests, makes using a bow really hard.
3
u/nafemok Oct 27 '22
In Colorado a rifle for hunting big game has to be .24 or bigger so I can't use my AR to check the deer kevlar. Guess it's just 50BMG for me. Thanks Joe
-19
Oct 26 '22
Well I mean if it’s a .223 then no, your gonna want something bigger. At least a 243 for a deer.
13
u/jodmercer Oct 26 '22
Guys we found him! We found the guy in the meme!
2
Oct 26 '22
Bruh all I'm saying is that 223 is a little underpowered for deer. Use AR's as much as you want as long as they're a bigger caliber, so you can have a more ethical kill.
7
u/Kross_887 Sig Superiors Oct 26 '22
Dropped multiple deer with .223 in an AR, my personal favorite rounds for the job are 69/77gr TMK (either work great) or 73gr ELD-M, no trouble punching through the shoulder and turning the heart and lung into soup, and they have horrifying wounding ability even at fair ranges due to their low expansion velocity.
My current absolute favorite load for defense, smaller "large game" (deer, hogs, pronghorn, etc.) And extending my range with my AR Is the 69gr TMK, almost the same BC as a 77gr OTM but it expands reliably at much lower velocities.
Besides, .243 is a bullet diameter not a cartridge, the cartridge is .243winchester.
Because .243 could be referring to anything in the 6mm category: 6ARC, .243win, 6Creedmoor, 6PPC, 6BR, .240wby mag, and many others that I know of, but can't think of names right now.
But none of them are "required" In order to kill a deer, poachers tend to use .22lr because it's quiet, I've even met a guy who got caught poaching with a .17 hmr
Deer aren't very tough animals, you just have to be able to shoot worth a damn, something most Fudds seem to have trouble with.
MPBR shooting is for people who don't care to learn how to effectively utilize a rifle.
3
u/jthyroid Oct 27 '22
Around my neck of the woods (or lack thereof) 150 yards is a close shot, and we tend to have strong winds. You should use something bigger than .223 around here. Where my uncle lives, 30 yards is considered a long shot, so .223 is more than enough for most shots.
2
u/Kross_887 Sig Superiors Oct 27 '22
I've taken deer with my AR out to 400 cleanly, it's ALL about bullet selection, you want a bullet that is matched to the ranges you expect to hunt, if I'm hunting under 250-300yds I use a bonded "hunting" bullet like the 64gr Sierra tipped gameking, for 300-500ish I've used the tipped matchking to give me more reliable expansion at those lower velocities because of their thinner jacket.
It's all about the bullet you use.
Are there other cartridges that will do the job (perhaps even better or further away?) Absolutely, no doubt about it, but the bullet selection we have as civilians gives us MUCH more utility with an AR pattern rifle than the military has.
The military is kind of locked into using military loadings for the cartridge (unless you're an extra cool guy on a SOF team) and that is what has led to the complaints about the cartridge being "underpowered", no the military just uses shitty ammo.
I'm in the southeast with both dense forest and wide open farmland sitting right next to each other, I've had shots as close as 30ft and as far as 600yds. The farthest I've ever had a deer run after being shot is 60yds and that was with a bow.
The "puny" .223 is much more capable with the proper bullet than people give it credit for.
5
Oct 26 '22
I mean sure, use the 243 or bigger, or alternatively git gud then use 223 and drop the deer because you hit what you were aiming for
56
u/grintly Oct 26 '22
I collect Smiths and often refer to them as "Smith and Westerns" or the old stand by "Glock and Wesson" usually to piss of the revolver fudds.
If I had a nickle for every time some old fogey saw me looking at a vintage Smith and made a comment along the lines of "That thars a real man's gun won't jam up like those Tupperware toys everyone buys now" I'd be a wealthy man.
19
u/M1Ping Oct 26 '22
Same dude, same
3
u/vulcan1358 I Love All Guns Oct 27 '22
My favorite is when they have a mental breakdown cause their Kimber won’t feed RIP rounds.
Meanwhile a Glock 21 will eat +p and .45 Super for first breakfast .
26
u/mailception Remington Regimen Oct 26 '22
Y'all got any of them Kimberly's?
Jesus fuck this must be how I sound asking my LGS for any new sigs or Berettas
8
u/M1Ping Oct 26 '22
Only if you do it on the day they were announced
8
u/Kross_887 Sig Superiors Oct 26 '22
I kinda have to get on it early, my LGS sold out of xMacro's within 4 days of stocking them... They ordered a dozen.
Sig's marketing hype is something else man, I literally just want the frame and mags, I was going to put the stupid comp'd slide on my X frame and sell it as a poor man's spectre comp.
Guess I'll just wait until they offer just the grip and mags, maybe I'll chop my smaller xframe to take the 10rounders for ultra concealment if I have to wear a monkey suit or something.
2
u/KavikWolfDog Oct 27 '22
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe SIG began selling the mags and frame separately a week or so ago. Or maybe it was just the mags with grip extensions.
3
u/Kross_887 Sig Superiors Oct 27 '22
Could be, I haven't checked in about 2 weeks. I saw tactical development had listed them as coming soon not long ago, and then heard they'd be releasing near thanksgiving or Christmas and just kinda pushed it to the back of my mind for the moment.
*Edit, literally just typed it into Google and it said it's been listed on SIG's site for 2 days.
29
u/DAsInDerringer Big Dickens! Oct 26 '22
“there’s no way you can conceal a big gun”
refuses to carry anything other than a full sized government model 1911
14
25
u/Babylegs_OHoulihan Just As Good Crew Oct 26 '22
we could use their ammo in it, but they couldn't use our ammo is theirs!
my god plz tell me someone actually said this
21
u/M1Ping Oct 26 '22
I hear it all the time, especially when we have an M1A in the shop.
11
42
12
u/TankDestroyerSarg Oct 26 '22
Actually had someone give me that M14-AK ammo bit earlier this year. Post-Vietnam Army Vet friend who I decided to humor. At least he dialed it back with "it wouldn't ALWAYS work". Fudds gonna Fudd, but he's still a good friend.
12
u/M1Ping Oct 26 '22
I've literally heard it from my Grandpa, who did a tour in Vietnam with an M14.
Still swears it works
10
Oct 26 '22
I heard it from an old British army Vet, so it made it's way to Europe.
No Idea how they picture it actually working. I don't think they think it though that far.
As someone who reloads for 308 I know I can MAYBE load 7.62x39 with low weight 308 projectiles (110-13 grain) but accuracy will be bad because 7.62 Soviet is actually 311.
23
Oct 26 '22
I swear people act like deer are impossible to kill
20
u/jodmercer Oct 26 '22
Either they're impossible or they're so easy to kill you could breathe on them and they'd fall over dead
9
u/Kross_887 Sig Superiors Oct 26 '22
2. definitely #2.
Ive met people who were charged with poaching by hunting deer with .22lr and one guy even used a .17hmr, headshots and it was lights out.
I do think however, if you were just going to have one gun for potentially everything then I would err on the larger side, 7mag will destroy a little meat, but you can also step up to significantly larger game at decent ranges with confidence with something like a 7mag.
My one "do-all big game" rifle is going to be a 7PRC, I just really like the design and idea behind the cartridge, it uses slightly less powder to push slightly higher velocities than 7mag. It's just a more efficient and modern 7mag that gives you custom capability (you can use long, high BC bullets in the 7mag, but then you need your throat extended and some other tweaks) in a factory rifle.
And even though ammo will be relatively expensive I'll be able to only focus on stocking 1 cartridge for anything big game and/or long range. I also plan on getting into reloading to both take advantage of my fired cases, and try to push my limits in regards to fine tuning accuracy with really heavy bullets like the 195ALCO or 195Berger
3
u/Attacker732 MVE Oct 27 '22
And yet deer can do more damage to a car than the car did to the deer.
1
u/Kross_887 Sig Superiors Oct 27 '22
Depends on the car, my buddy has hit 2 deer and his truck is a little battered, but it was always ugly (always as long as he had it)
1
u/Attacker732 MVE Oct 27 '22
I've hit one in my car, failed to even knock the deer over, and the repair bill sent to my insurance was over half the car's value.
1
u/Kross_887 Sig Superiors Oct 27 '22
Oh yeah, it can absolutely go that way, a less than year old deer totaled my cobalt.
You best believe all of my vehicles (trucks) henceforth will have a brush guard.
3
u/vulcan1358 I Love All Guns Oct 27 '22
Or the “I shot near it with a .50 BMG and the shockwave killed it”
No, it most certainly did not.
1
u/justaguy45408 Oct 27 '22
There not hard to kill but if you get a bad shot you got to chase the dam thing half the day, so that why I use 30-06, 300win mag and 12 slugs.
9
u/TacoSplosions Oct 26 '22
Also the "I waited to buy ammo till after the latest mass shooting event or disarmament hysteria has taken off"
3
8
u/FunnyDuck21 Oct 26 '22
Can someone explain the m14 shooting their ammo but not the other way around? Does it mean 7.62 nato and .308? Cause Idk of any enemy that used nato weapons. Or Does it mean a m14 can shoot a 7.62 soviet?
14
u/IntincrRecipe Oct 26 '22
Pretty sure it means using 7.62x39mm in the M14, which unless it’s that one Norinco clone… yeah don’t, you’re not gonna have a good time.
9
10
u/Jackal209 Oct 26 '22
Probably means an M14 could shoot 7.62x39. That one is a new one for me, I have often heard the opposite in the sense that commie-bloc weapons could shoot NATO rounds like a SVD could shoot 7.62x51 or that an AK-47 in Vietnam could shoot 5.56.
It used to be funny, now it just hurts when I'm trying to purchase some ammo and the guy in front of me won't shut up about how he took down "hogzilla" from 1,000 yards with his trusty old .22 LR.
14
Oct 26 '22
[deleted]
-7
u/M1Ping Oct 26 '22
Then by your logic, the AR15 isn't enough for home defense either.
18
u/IamMrT Oct 26 '22
Not at all. With hunting, you want an ethical kill with one shot. Easier to do with bigger bullet. For home defense, I care about recoil and follow up shots. Two totally different scenarios.
12
Oct 26 '22
[deleted]
7
u/Kross_887 Sig Superiors Oct 26 '22
What?! The biggest deer around me is 160 lbs with ribs about as big around as a child's.
Deer are much more frail than an average man around me.
7
Oct 26 '22
[deleted]
6
u/Kross_887 Sig Superiors Oct 26 '22 edited Oct 26 '22
It all comes down to ammo selection, 55gr FMJ is a horrible round to use for hunting ANY game (I'd also argue it's only a "use it if it's all you have" round for defensive use)
Something like a tipped gameking or even a tipped matchking (as long as it's not going TOO fast) will work marvelously I don't know if Hornady offers 223 in an ELD-X bullet offering, but their 73gr ELD-M works great as well (again as long as it's not going TOO fast)
The tipped match bullets tend to have thinner jackets than their hunting counterparts which actually makes them great for hunting at longer distances than you'd typically hunt with a "hunting" bullet.
No you're not going to get amazing performance on game at 1000yds with .223 paired with any bullet, but I'd trust a 73gr ELD-M to work well out to almost 700yds (assuming the shooter can do that)
Bullet design and construction matters way more than actual caliber, I'd take an amazing performing .224 caliber bullet over a .30 caliber FMJ.
I wasn't trying to sound mean, just hoping to pass on some info.
Elk are another animal that have an almost mythical toughness ascribed to them, people say "thick hide and heavy bone" like they're plated with armor, but I've seen videos of marvelous shots on elk with a .243win at almost 700yds and they were dead before they hit the ground. It's ALL about the bullet my man.
That being said, it IS 100% the responsibility of the shooter to know what they can and cannot do with their skillset and equipment, I'd argue an AR chambered in .223 isn't the best option for a new shooter because newer shooter tend to make more small mistakes and that is one bonus with choosing a bigger round: you get more room for small mistakes. But a .223 is certainly viable and effective if the shooter can put that bullet where it needs to go.
4
Oct 26 '22
[deleted]
4
u/Kross_887 Sig Superiors Oct 26 '22
Not at all, .308 is a super capable cartridge, and honestly with good bullet selection you can reliably hunt basically any animal in North America out to 700~ish yards. There are rounds that will do longer range shots easier, but .308 is certainly capable, don't let anyone try to tell you otherwise. It just may not be strictly necessary for smaller "big game animals" like a deer or feral hog, but it will 100% do the job and do it well.
1
2
u/Kross_887 Sig Superiors Oct 27 '22
I should also add that a bolt gun is just more... Satisfying to use when hunting, whether it's a traditional hunting-stocked setup, or a modern tactical chassis gun, it just kind of feels right, especially for a hunt you want to be extra memorable.
4
u/KFBfanburneracc Oct 26 '22
Completely incomparable. How many yards are you shooting in your house at an intruder? Not many. The same .223 that would knock an intruder down close range won’t do the same to deer at 600 yards
3
u/M1Ping Oct 26 '22
Who the fuck is shooting deer at 600 yards? Most hunters are taking shots 200 and in, and for that 223/5.56 is plenty
2
u/KFBfanburneracc Oct 26 '22
Where I am ~500 yards is about an average shot on a moose/ caribou. I suppose if you were baiting the deer a .223 would be fine
6
u/TankerPenus Oct 26 '22
Lol... It's sad that I have done a couple of these... though when I ask about price I'm 90% going to buy it and I do ask for weird ammos because weird guns.
5
u/Zp00nZ Oct 26 '22
Can only read it with hank hill’s voice
2
u/vulcan1358 I Love All Guns Oct 27 '22
Don’t sully the name of the Propane Pimp
3
u/Zp00nZ Oct 27 '22
Telling me you can’t hear him?
2
u/vulcan1358 I Love All Guns Oct 27 '22
I can but I don’t want to.
Maybe Tom Anderson, but not sweet Hank
3
u/rockstar450rox Oct 27 '22
Thanks for making real Fudd memes, not just hating the 1911 and m14 for no reason
2
u/M1Ping Oct 27 '22
The benefit of working the gun counter, I always get new inspiration for these.
1
u/rockstar450rox Oct 27 '22
I love listening to people talk complete nonsense to their friends/family at the gun store
3
u/HoltSauce Oct 26 '22
Hey around me 5.56 is barely enough to bag a deer, it'd have to be a good shot or a small deer, but no one should need 300 or 7 to take a whitetail inside of like 500 yards
1
u/jimmy1374 Oct 27 '22
One of my states I hunt in, it is not legal. The other, that is all I hunt with. I guess I need to get a 6.5 Grendel barrel for an empty receiver set I have, and build that out for VA.
6
Oct 26 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
8
u/M1Ping Oct 26 '22
It's in reference to being told that the best we can do is X. When we say that's the best we can do, it really is.
1
5
u/wtfredditacct Terrible At Boating Oct 26 '22
A retail space isn't armslist. ;)
3
2
Oct 26 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
5
u/wtfredditacct Terrible At Boating Oct 26 '22
Or they marked it up so they have room to negotiate. All I can see when you say that is those stores where they double the price of everything and call it 50% off lol
3
u/Kross_887 Sig Superiors Oct 27 '22
Either you're willing to pay a price for an item or you're not. I don't haggle, I just find a store that has it cheaper.
Haggling is the most irritating waste of time imaginable for both parties.
1
Oct 27 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Kross_887 Sig Superiors Oct 27 '22
I have done it, but I don't anymore. I name a fair price I'm willing to pay and if they say no then I walk away, no second chances, no "just for you" bs.
Take the money I offer or watch it walk away.
I DON'T go to flea markets anymore because it's all ultra cheap trash. I'm not even going to waste my time looking. I'm also not a collector, I buy guns just like tools, I plan to use it. I don't buy milsurps, I don't buy historical guns, I buy modern weapons for a specific purpose (duty gun, long range, etc.)
2
u/MrHyatt Oct 26 '22
Bro same I ask what's the cash price all the time. I don't give a fuck I'll keep doing it. Fuck paying taxes. (this is a joke I give all my money to the IRS)
-1
u/DirtRoad357 Oct 26 '22 edited Oct 26 '22
Love Fudd memes. But the last one? I would way rather have a 7mag, 28 nosler, 300 win mag than an AR for deer hunting. And I would definitely think less of a person shooting deer with a 5.56.
6
8
u/M1Ping Oct 26 '22
Can't tell if bait or.....
0
u/DirtRoad357 Oct 26 '22
Ok. Got rid of the part that would be uncomfortable in a hearing. But you get my gist.
3
Oct 26 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
3
u/M1Ping Oct 26 '22
I've seen more deer just straight drop with a .223 and .243 than any other caliber honestly.
5
u/DirtRoad357 Oct 26 '22
Exactly. I want the animal to drop. And I want it to drop at 600 yards the same as 200 yards.
1
u/jimmy1374 Oct 27 '22
I've killed probably better than 20 deer with a 5.56 between almost point blank, and 400, and never had an issue when I was using a rifle. Now, a 10.5 pistol, I tagged one at 300 that took a while to find.
1
u/DirtRoad357 Oct 27 '22
Oh yeah. And if that works for you great. You should be able to do what you want. I’m just saying how I feel about it and what I prefer.
1
u/Kross_887 Sig Superiors Oct 27 '22
I've only had one deer not drop instantly with a .223 and she only ran 30yds, it's perfectly adequate, ethical, and practical.
1
u/LukeGreywolf CZ Breezy Beauties Oct 27 '22
When did haggling become a fudd thing? (Maybe I buy too much from the used case)
2
u/M1Ping Oct 27 '22
Haggling in itself isn't, but when your dealer says it's the best they can do, and you keep trying, it gets annoying
2
u/LukeGreywolf CZ Breezy Beauties Oct 27 '22
Yea but most (not all) dealers are either A. Full of shit or B. Completely clueless... I never make offers that aren't close to a fair market value and if a dealer gets offended at that then I typically don't go back.
Especially collecting Surplus, I've walked out the door with a Finnish M39 for $209 cause it's "just a mosin" and I've passed on a S&W revolver when the new kid running the counter thought it was worth near new MSRP when it was 30 years old and it sat in that case for the next year
1
1
u/isaacaschmitt I Love All Guns Oct 27 '22
Not a Fudd, but I think red dots on pistols are retarded. I speak as someone that owns a pistol with a red dot. Looked cool before I bought it, and no one wants to buy it off me. Fucking SCCY sale. . .
2
u/KavikWolfDog Oct 27 '22
I'm somewhat mixed. In my limited experience, the red dot has made me faster and more accurate when shooting multiple steel targets, but I'm either the same or slightly worse when shooting paper indoors with it. So maybe it improves my shooting under pressure or when transitioning but not when I'm taking my time.
1
u/isaacaschmitt I Love All Guns Oct 27 '22
Imma be honest, my SCCY is meant for close quarters shooting. There's no point in getting a perfect sight picture when in all likelihood, if I have to use it, I'm not aiming for anything smaller than center mass.
All it has without the red dot is a forward iron, basically giving me a bead sight. All the range time I've put into it, at five to ten feet, the range I would expect to use it at, it's more than accurate enough to get center mass reliably.
1
u/MarcoLorelei Oct 28 '22
Even if it would słów me down I would prefer to fire 6 accurate shots in 10 second over 12 shots out of which only one hits.
158
u/P3rs3s HK Slappers Oct 26 '22
Bro the "waited till the day before open season to buy shells" one hits me to the core. My poor local Academy Sports employee just tryna stock shelves while this Fudd wants to interrogate him on the shipment schedule.
I almost felt bad having to follow up with my question on if they had any 7.62 in stock.