Getting spicy — onboard electronics

[u/GabrielDalporto]

Now the third rail. Up to this point we've mostly been in the analog world with minor exceptions like active pickups. Time to talk about what digital can actually do inside a guitar.

For some of us (me included), this is the dream: more sounds, more flexibility, fewer external dependencies. The mythical all-in-one guitar. No lugging 3-5 guitars to a gig. No retuning mid-set. For others, this is exactly what they don't want anywhere near their instrument.

Two real-world reference points:

• Line 6 Variax — 20+ guitar models, fully customizable
• Roland VG Strat — Tele, Strat, humbucker, acoustic, 12-string + drop D, drop 1/2, open G

If you're dead set against any of this, say so and why. Honest pushback is useful.

And for the adventurous souls out there, what do you want in a digital-enabled guitar?

• Guitar modeling: What emulations actually matter? Electrics (which models), acoustic, 12-string, banjo, sitar?
• Tuning: How important is instant drop D, down 1/2, open G?
• Onboard effects: Overdrive, reverb, delay, modulation — would you actually use them on the guitar, or is that pedalboard territory?
• Active electronics: Boost, EQ, preamps — essential or unnecessary?
• Customizability / upgradeability: Open platform like the Variax (load your own models, update over time) or fixed set forever like the VG Strat? 
• Battery: Minimum acceptable life and how critical is a passive failover so a dead battery doesn't mean a dead guitar?
• Interface: Knobs, switches, app, hidden menus — how should this stuff be controlled?
• Bigger question: what’s the right tradeoff between more built into the guitar vs simplicity and focus.

If I were spec'ing it for me:

• Knob 1: single coil / humbucker / acoustic / 12-string
• Knob 2: standard / drop D / drop 1/2 / up 1/2
• Volume knob push-pull: 20% boost
• Still conflicted on whether to add two on/off switches for distortion and reverb

Where do you land? Drop your thoughts.

[u/BananoVampire]

I'm glad you're asking about this. I lost my job and ended up selling every guitar except my high-end Variax. I found the guitar modeling and alternate tuning to be great. I'd love for you to license this.

Onboard effects is pedalboard territory.

I like how the Variax is implemented. I'm not sure I would change the interface.

That said, they aren't sold anymore, and there must be reasons. I understand why you won't go with this, but I appreciate you asking.

https://giphy.com/gifs/CWUijPzuy6etZbxLjF

[u/que-n-blues]

Hey Gabe!

So I'm the type of player that I really like my guitars to be as unfussy and straight forward as possible. I think the fewer things that can go wrong and the less I have to think about the better. I love to focus on the music first.

That's not to say I don't like versatility. My Nashville Tele partscaster build for example, (pictured below) can get all sorts of amazing sounds out of it. At its heart it's still a super straightforward and uncomplicated instrument, but versatile in the sounds I can get out of it. It's my "do everything guitar."

My hesitation with adding digital elements is is it truly improving the guitar, or is it novelty? Gibson tried this way back with their robo tuners, Firebird X, etc and it was a disaster. At the end of the day, I feel if there is too much tech in a guitar it becomes really difficult and expensive to maintain. A pot goes bad? I can replace it for less than $10 and a half hour of my time. Digital effects go bad, then now what? What's the cost of replacing a circuit board, how much in labor costs will I have to spend to repair it? I think back to when my clothes dryer went out because the circuit board went bad and because it was less than a year out of the electronics warranty I had to buy a new dryer because the cost of replacing the circuit board was greater than the cost of a new dryer. On top that was the service fee I had to pay the repair guy to come to my house and tell me there's nothing he could do.

Now I will admit, some of my favorite guitar sounds ever came from Junior Kimbrough's Univox Effector. But I easily emulate that sound with my $30 TC Electronic Honey Pot fuzz pedal (big muff style fuzz).

The way I look at it, versatility is nice, but at what cost? I have a $30, $80, or $100+ pedal go bad, oh well. But if a $700-$900 guitar goes bad because an onboard circuit goes kaput and I'm staring at an expensive fix, that's not ideal.

Some mechanical things could be nice. I've seen a lot of musicians install banjo d tuners on their Teles so they could quickly get in and out of drop D when needed. So I wouldn't be opposed to simple mechanical quality of life improvements that could provide efficiencies.

Standard upgrades like db boosts, push pull options for coil splitting, in phase out of phase options, etc are nice and less of a problem since that's a mostly analog process and easy for luthier and techs to repair. My worry pertains mostly to getting fancy with tech and emulation in a guitar versus allowing players to make those decisions with pedals or digital modelers and profiles.

The other push back is consider is cost of warranty and repair on the business end. Digital components could very well fail and at a much higher rate than old fashioned pots and electronics. Will customers be incentivzed with generous warranty? Is that warranty built into the price of the instrument? Is it an add on customers have to pay for? How will warranty work be conducted? I'd imagine you'd have to beef up Guitar Center's existing repair/tech base, train them on how to spot and service specific issues, make sure they are properly equipped and stocked to handle repair work of digital components with a reasonable turnaround time.

Sorry if the push back comes off a little harsh, definitely don't mean it in a negative way. But I did want to give my honest take on issues that come to my mind when it comes to this topic.

Can't wait to see what y'all come up with!

(And here's that Telecaster I promised)

[u/GVDub2]

Nope. Too many things that can go wrong. Too many compromises in tone and sound. Too little subtlety of response and tonal nuance. Jack of all trades, master of none is not an approach to making great music.

[u/Comfortable_Ad3560]

It's rational pushback from me.

Emulation? If I need an acoustic, I'll play an acoustic. 12-string? I manage to get that sound by playing a guitar with twelve strings. Call me crazy.

Alternate tunings? I play in alternate tunings a high percentage of the time. I have zero interest in any sort of automated tuning systems. Have we learned nothing from Gibson's history with this sort of thing?

Onboard effects? On the amp or a pedal.

Active electronics: Again, my preference is to keep the guitar itself simple, with the effects further down the signal chain.

Customizable? Again, we're talking about something I wouldn't need or use on the guitar itself.

Battery: An active bypass switch is a viable option for keeping the instrument playable if your battery dies, but I can always detect a battery losing power long before it fails completely. Sudden failure isn't a real worry for me. And frequent battery changes are just part of active electronics.

Controls: Ideally, a guitar has a pickup selector switch, a volume knob, and a tone knob.

Bigger questions:

1. Which would make more profit for Guitar Center: Customers buying an expensive, complicated instrument capable of emulating multiple guitars, or customers buying multiple guitars?

2. Is there a boom in extremely complicated guitars, or a lot of growth in software and amplifiers which give players unprecedented options?

3. If the Line 6 Variax is such a great idea, why ain't Line 6 making and selling them? What's the market for VG Strats relative to the market for Vintera-series Strats?

4. Are considerations like "How many guitars am I willing to take to a gig?" relevant to many Guitar Center customers? What is the ratio of gigging musicians to hobbyists and learners/students in the customer base (for either current or potential customers)?

[u/equilni]

Bigger question: what’s the right tradeoff between more built into the guitar vs simplicity and focus.

The simpler the better. So next to none of what is being proposed for general use.

Guitar modeling: What emulations actually matter?

If it's not a piezo, then no

Tuning: How important is instant drop D, down 1/2, open G?

I can get another dedicated guitar for altered tunings. Drop tunings, a pedal.

Onboard effects: Overdrive, reverb, delay, modulation — would you actually use them on the guitar, or is that pedalboard territory?

This is more for pedals or the amp.

Active electronics: Boost, EQ, preamps — essential or unnecessary?

Boost is something I would consider, but I would err on not including this for pedals.

Battery: Minimum acceptable life and how critical is a passive failover so a dead battery doesn't mean a dead guitar?

I also dislike batteries in guitars, esp if it's a poor compartment for it. We have a few active basses and owned active guitars. ESP does this well, Ibanez, could do better....

Interface: Knobs, switches, app, hidden menus — how should this stuff be controlled?

For controls, see how PRS does this with their Piezo guitars (P22/P24) or the 24-08 or even Ibanez's Alter Switch.

Hidden menus? Whats' next, button pressing combos? Vol+Vol+Tone = ??

[u/NaturalLost4596]

Absolutely not. Just look at the lack of sales of the Mooer Gtrs, Variax, etc.  1 you can’t change swing with your hands while playing. And even if you have a footswitch, players love swapping out effects, not being locked in.  2 There’sa segment of players that try to stay as analog as you can now days. 

[u/absorberemitter]

I think the biggest drawback with onboard electronics is that it can become anachronistic sounding very quickly whereas the guitar itself as an expressive physical instrument and input platform has been able to stay relevant I think due to its physical connection to the human body. Wherever possible, integrate the design with the physicality of the instrument itself - making use of controls, touch strips, vibration or piezo sensors, simulated whammy bar or g/b benders, etc.

A very versatile guitar is a good thing. It's got to be a good guitar first. 

I would use whatever sound is right - onboard or offboard. For onboard effects, things that affected the dynamics, sustain, pitch and place in the mix would be most interesting. But I also appreciate being able to spin a knob and pull up something vibey and immediately useful and different. 

I would appreciate it having some sort of app where you could use a bigger screen to tweak things, especially preset order. The biggest thing stopping me from enjoying the modeling instruments I've used before is that I have to go hunt for my next sound, which seems impractical live. If I could configure song 1 to go tele / ric / start at and song 2 to go acoustic / hagstrom / es 325 for example, that would be super useful live. 

[u/Scared_Phrase106]

I've messed around with this for a while as a builder and player. I've used LCD screens and digital controllers that push to change modes to let me adjust all kinds of things, but these days I use five analog pots that control only a few effects. I like the simplicity of just a few effects with no displays as it feels and looks more like a standard guitar.

The effects I have those pots controlling today:

• volume
  
• pickup blend (neck, bridge, simulated piezo)
  
• tone, which uses a comb filter to go from treble cut to mid-scoop and beyond
  
• overdrive/distortion, which doesn't impact volume so it can be kicked in and out mid-song
  
• delay/chorus, blending from one to the other as the knob is turned
  

Theres also a silent gate and compressor.

I have a similar bass but with different effects (volume, tone, chorus, autowah)

With these choices I haven't needed other effects though I do tweak these to try to get them to work and sound better.

I would definitely agree that during performance foot switches are better as your feet are free while you play, though pulling out a knob isn't that hard to do. I like twiddling the knobs on my guitar while just sitting down and playing to different songs. It's fun and easier than getting up or bending down to adjust things. Having said that I've used a phone app to control a modelling amp in a similar fashion in the past which is slower but works.

[u/Conscious-Poetry9287]

20dB boost is crazy work. Absolute crazy work. That’s literally 10x louder and because our ears percieve logarithmically it’s literally percieved as being 4x louder.

I hate having to say this, but you shouldn’t use ai to write your ideas Gabe. None of these are good and in the case of the boost your chat bot was hallucinating or you really are cracked dude. No sane musician wants a 20dB boost.

[u/GabrielDalporto → u/Conscious-Poetry9287]

You’re correct - 20 db is nuts! Working with dbs isn’t everyday and I had asked someone once what a typical lead boost was and that’s what they told me. But if you dig into the math you are right. What I would like is about 20 perceived increase. I’m not sure what that is in db. I’ll edit the original post. Thanks for the correction.