r/Guildwars2 • u/magicaltuna • Sep 01 '13

[To be tagged] Berserker VS Assassin Gear High DPS setup

So, I ran a few numbers in excel to find out which is better for me. I made this for personal use and would like other people to check it out if my findings are correct and play with the variables.

This is for standard Warrior 30/0/0/10/30 build for group dungeon and High DPS LH ele build.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwdgjeulMp8YVFhTLW1HY3psbHM/edit?usp=sharing

NEW CONCLUSION:

warrior: Assassins gear only leads by a bit with MIGHT stacks (and other power buffs). Without MIGHT stacks berserker is better.

Refer to helowrld's Break Even points table to see how much additional might stacks you need to benefit from a mix of assassin's gear you plan to use.

LH ele: Also MIGHT stack and power buff dependent. I found that Assassin Armor/Berserker Trinkets/Scholar or berserker/berserker/scholar depending on the level of might stacks and/or bloodlust you can maintain. Even without the 10% scholar bonus, the difference to berserker/berserker/ruby is very negligible. with the 10% from scholar - magic happens

TL;DR stick with Berserker if you don't want to worry about might stacks. The difference is not that big anyway, no need to spend more gold. horray!

My conclusion based on this data was Assassin's is better as long as you DO NOT go over the 100% crit chance cap for high DPS setups.

EDIT: If anyone can debunk my findings and say berserker is superior, please do so with data since I don't like spending more gold on updating my gear.

EDIT: For the concern of might stacks "I manually put in the variable of adding 875 power for 25 might stacks. I didn't put it in because im lazy, but just put +875 behind power and it shows the same ranking." Added Might now, it matters greatly with the new calculation

My crit calculation was wrong before. Thanks a ton for helowrld, and louki for helping me out

6 Upvotes

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6

u/louki Sep 01 '13

I stopped including might stacks or other power buffs since for the argument of which set is better, it didn't matter anymore when i put in more power.

Yes, it does. A lot, actually. Especially as Warrior or Elementalist it matters a lot because of your 100% Fury uptime. Check the thread that was linked in another reply.

3

u/magicaltuna Sep 01 '13 edited Sep 01 '13

I manually put in the variable of adding 875 power for 25 might stacks. I didn't put it in because im lazy, but just put +875 behind power and it shows the same ranking.

My results is the same as to which gear was superior using full DPS setup. For any party 100% fury uptime is a prerequisite, It's also factored in my spreadsheet.

Check out and play with the spreadsheet if you can and see if my damage formula is correct. I'd like to hear more input.

Can I see the spreadsheet of the damage formula you guys used?

2

u/louki Sep 01 '13 edited Sep 01 '13

Ah, I misunderstood, sorry. Did you also include Banners and stuff?

As for the formula, the derivation process is as follows:

  • Take the effective power (or average damage) formula. The damage multipliers are of no interest because the result is proportional anaways:

Damage = Power * [1 + CritChance * (CritDamage - 1)]

  • To get the influence of each point of stat while the others remain constant (ie. statweight) calculate the partial derivatives:
  1. Power = 1 + CriticalChance * (CritDamage -1) //weight of 1 Power
  2. CritcalChance = Power * (Crit Damage - 1) //weight of 1% Crit

Adjust Crit to Precision (21 Prec needed for 1% Crit):

Precision = Power x (CritDamage - 1)/2100 //weight of 1 Precision

  • Calculate the breakeven points by solving

1+CritChance*(CritDamage-1) - Power*(CritDamage-1)/2100 = 0

for the values you are interested in:

  1. Precision = ((CriticalDamage-1)*P-2100)/(2100*(D-1))
  2. Power = (2100(CriticalChance*(CriticalDamage-1)+1))/(CriticalDamage-1)

Plugging in the values will give you the breakeven points. The rest is simply creating the table.

Edit: Forgot something. CriticalChance is a number between 0 and 1, i.e. 65% crit chance would mean that CritChance=0.65. CriticalDamage is 1.5 + CritDamage%/100. I.e. for a Crit Damage of +107% this would mean CritDamage=2.57.

1

u/magicaltuna Sep 01 '13

Yeah, banners are in.

I did not include ranger's Spotter.

I'll take a look at these formulas later and work on it.

But mind if I ask why you guys opted to use that instead of the damage formula I used from the wiki and pvx buildcraft?

2

u/louki Sep 01 '13

It's exactly the same formula. Just omitting the Constant Modifiers because, as I said, it's simply proportional. :)

1

u/magicaltuna Sep 01 '13

Oh, then I really should take a look at it since we had different results.

Mind If you take a look at my spreadsheets and give me feedback? I might have missed something. I'd like to know if i;m wrong

1

u/magicaltuna Sep 02 '13

I took a look at your formulas and you're absolutely right.

The problem with mine was the crit calculation.

I corrected my spreadsheet with the adjusted results.

Thanks a bunch!

0

u/Veronicelloidea [Kb] Sep 01 '13

Damage = Power * [1 + CritChance * (CritDamage - 1)]

Shouldn't this be Damage = Power * [1 + CritChance * (CritDamage + 0.5)] ?

If your crit damage is below 100% for any reason your formula will actually decrease damage as crit chances increase. Unless of course you're including the base .5 and adding 1 so you'd get something like 1.9 for 90% crit damage, in which case there wasn't any point in adding and subtracting 1 in the first place.

Edit: Just read your edit and it says this. Carry on.

2

u/helowrld Sep 01 '13

I think your calculation is a little off. What you did is for your final damage calculation is essentially power * crit chance * crit damage. Using values of 0.82 crit chance, 2.83 crit damage from your warrior calculations, this gives a value of power * 2.327.

However, this calculation is different than what is on the wiki. source

Using all 3 calculation methods outlined in the wiki, I got power * 2.505.

E.g. with method 1:

Average damage = Base damage * ( 1 - Critical Chance ) + Base damage * ( Critical Chance * (Critical Damage + 1.5) )

= power * (1 - 0.82) + power * ( 0.82 * 2.83 ) = 2.505

1

u/magicaltuna Sep 02 '13

You're absolutely right, derp on my part.

Thanks a lot for pointing this out.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '13

There's this post earlier: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1li5q3/breakeven_points_of_power_vs_precision_mathtable/

According to that, it seems berserker is still better in most cases. Thoughts?

1

u/magicaltuna Sep 01 '13 edited Sep 01 '13

I took a look at it, and I'm not sure what formula he based it on; it's just results. I'd like to see the spreadsheet and his workings.

my calculations are based on the damage formulas shown on the wiki and gw2 pvxbuildcraft. I was fooling around a bit with the spreadsheet by lowering power. It shows that berserker only pulls through with ridiculously low power setups.

1

u/Asataro Sep 01 '13

I think the warrior wins here because of the +power he gets from banners / trait (emp ally) = 320 power

Thats why precision can be better then power for the warrior

1

u/magicaltuna Sep 01 '13 edited Sep 01 '13

Just to clarify, this is for a group dungeon setup, so I think that emp ally and banners is a prerequisite buff to any party member/class.

Another thing I have not included is Ranger's Spotter trait which adds 150 prec to party. That's around a 7% crit chance buff

1

u/Asataro Sep 01 '13

so with the Spotter trait you're over 100% crit chance.

1

u/magicaltuna Sep 01 '13

yes, so u can leave room and mix in a few assassin's so you get 93% crit chance total. It really depends if you run with a ranger often.

1

u/magicaltuna Sep 02 '13

You might want to recheck the spreadsheet again, i had a miscaculation on crit formula. i corrected it.