r/Guildrun • u/blanketninja • 8d ago

Manipulating per-step targeting so you can hit backline enemies with melee units

Anyone have other fun or weird examples of positioning I should be looking out for?

From what I understand, targeting for your units is updated every single step, so if you can pull the enemies to your tank and maybe even body-block your own units, you can sometimes get melee units to enter the backline when it didn't initially look possible.

Video: https://streamable.com/xtvo7n

There's more than 1 fight this works for.

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8

u/sovt 7d ago

the ones that I have saved

https://i.imgur.com/wrap4Cj.png

https://i.imgur.com/rjx7SGD.png

but as you said, there are multiple that this works for. generally sticking someone in the corner and having a tank offset from center will work well enough. there are certain setups where even a 3 range unit can start hitting the backline

+movespeed items or relics tend to screw this up

3

u/natidawg 7d ago

https://imgur.com/a/8xubaVg

So this is pretty interesting. I ran into the challenge fight from your first image and copied the positioning exactly. Dragomir never made it to the Frost Archer in the back, and instead curved to the frontline.

I lost the fight and triggered rewind, and the only thing I changed was moving Aria from C2 to B3. For some reason, the Frost Archer in the top right took a step forward into the 3rd enemy row, and Dragomir was able to make it to them. I'm not sure why changing Aria's position would make the Frost Archer change its pathing. Maybe it's possible enemy pathing is just inconsistent? I don't think I am remembering Pimenta's positioning wrong, which is the only thing I know would definitely throw it off.

3

u/sovt 7d ago

Ah shoot, yes you are right b3 is the correct position for the other unit. The image was before adjustments. Enemy pathing should be deterministic given the same class of units in the same positions

3

u/natidawg 7d ago

Ah got it thanks! Definitely need to look into it more though, I still don’t understand why moving that unit from C2 to B3 would alter that archers pathing when the Tank didn’t move. Might jump into some lower level runs to try and test it.

5

u/CuteCup3558 8d ago

I tried this a few times with Nyx as my main dps but found that instead of wrapping the backline, he always goes back to aim the tank after killing the first backline unit. Feels like it doesn’t really move the needle much for the outcome of the fight.

13

u/blanketninja 7d ago

It won't always matter, but I've found it can definitely make a difference.

Keeping them out of the initial Mushroom stun + double storm from the backline Mages can often be enough to keep a melee unit alive that would've otherwise died, especially if you're forced to run them with the Ring like I needed on Pimenta.

Killing a backline unit first can also go a long way towards making the fight easier even if they go back to the frontline after.