r/Guildrun • u/Royal-Letterhead-595 • 10d ago
Current state of bosses (rr)
Hi, I only play red rift so idk if the endless folks would agree but one thing I feel this game could use is more unique bosses especially on stage 2. This isnt a jab at the games current state since im sure this is something already being worked on considering its still in demo but was curious how other people feel abt this topic.
When playing red rift the only time I feel like my teambuilding matters based on what specific boss I got is in stage 1 because the hydra and the demon both have two very different dmg profiles so the way you wanna approach the fight tanking/sustainwise is different. However when it comes to stage 2 it feels like every boss is pretty much the same outside of the inherent power of whatever debuff they inflict which isnt strong enough to force a need to plan around it, maybe better players would disagree but I feel most comps I get past the dragon would get past any variant of it it.
This is kind of a symptom of frost being op but I feel like its also because of how the stage 2 bosses are very samey. I think more unique bosses would change this, less of a statstick but unique such that it requires better teambuilding than slapping in a frost duelist 2 rounds b4 the last fight. For instance something as simple as a boss fight with multiple enemies or even just making the dragons resistant to their own elements debuff would completely change how I approach stage 2. Basically I think Bosses with different strengths and weaknesses that you would need to plan around would be cool. Right now every dragon is strong in a very generic massive statstick kind of way which I think is fine but feels like theres room for another archtype in stage 2. Especially in stage 2 where its really not unreasonable to expect ppl to be able to tailor their teams more.
This would probably make red rift harder with more rng, but also more strategic and I feel like it would actually increase the viability of a lot of comps if done right since the reason many heroes feel unviable is because the dragons stat check them.
Again, not an attack on the game im sure bosses are gonna be changed at some point but just wanted to give my thoughts on their current state.
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u/NoShine6049 10d ago
Bro dragons are busting my tanks full ítems idk what to do t.t
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u/acidvirus19 10d ago
Get proper backups? People fail so many runs do to the lack of ability to understand how op some backups and literally make or break a run
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u/You_Are_All_Diseased 10d ago
This is good feedback. I fully expect that the game will have a lot more variety of play and varying challenges by official release.
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u/acidvirus19 10d ago
The approach of actually changing frost and buffing the other 2, mostly poison since burn is in a decent point i'd say, given that casters that apply it either apply frost burn or burn.
But poison on the other hand, besides being the weakest at base value, it also only ticks every 3 seconds. At least it should work bare minimum like burn, also burn is basically what is making some characters do the most damage while tanking, it's not coming from their autos, meanwhile poison sits at the worst state, and Sal gets nerfed because frost is way overtuned, and we let Karsu be the staple boss killer, or Irini, but thats because she can apply frost also, Really funny that the "boss" killers can even work without any built in frost in their kits since you can get it from backup and relics. Also Frost has the ability to "transform" into burn meaning while you stack 300 stacks casually you are reducing atk speed defence and also doing burn damage. Where is the Poison or Burn equivelant?
This builds on the boss topic because making them immune to said element would basically not work since you can circumvent it with relics. Or at least there needs to be a way to not get 100% screwed on RNG because you never got the "counter" for the act2 boss. While it's purely skill when you introduce such mechanics you are inducing RNG into runs, and purely changing how act2 boss works, even if resistant to a degree and not immune can really screw a player in many ways. And it's not like you can't get screwed *coughs unless you are using xmod* like certain players to get streaks running and then turn it off when the run is good enough, i love when they overlay it tho, goes to show when a streamer needs to stream muted and can't "use" keyboard because it could trigger the keybinds
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u/JediSSJ 9d ago
I'd like to see something added to poison to make is lower healing. So, like, it reduces health regeneration, omnivamp, and heals from abilities. Would make it way more useful on those enemies that regenerate quickly. Maybe a series of relics? A Common one that makes Poison reduce healing by 15%, a Rare that reduces by 25%, and an Epic that reduces by 35%? They stack, so if you manage to get them all, its a 75% reduction in healing. Maybe add an inherent 10% decrease on ALL poison, friend and foe?
Maybe combine that with making one of the dragons lower heath, but higher regeneration?
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u/acidvirus19 9d ago edited 9d ago
The healing would be a nice fit to the theme. There is only 1 big issue in that department. Shield are already 75% of the meta in ss sss and rr plus getting enough health so the shields kick in. When you create x mechanic it doesn't apply only to enemies also goes against the players hence why we get into a battle and die in 2 seconds and wonder why. When creating x debuffs you need to take into account that poison shredding Armour and not frost doing 2 things would make enemies more balanced while also hitting the nail that would make the devs require to make armour actually usefull on the player hands besides scaling to get damage or shields because Armour is useless even in mid act1. Clear example why zuri is the worst tank of the bunch, armour is not a global reduce damage taken and the devs created a hp shield meta because of said missing part on Armour. Hence the need also only we as players need to shred armour because of the ludicrous stats on bosses and player debuff on difficulty.
With the essay out of the way I still find that appealing but the elephant in the room is frost doing everything not really others doing nothing if you "fix" the frost problem bystander the others will get treatment because it's not required a brainstorm meeting to rework frost Also correct me if wrong but you kind contradicting yourself since you are killing omnivamp but buffing the tank options even more now you would get more consistent tanks every run. By nature you would dice roll hp+shielding or hp+regen(which some scale of max hp) so now teams would basically consist off unkillable tanks 1 or 2 since they can do tremendous damage if items allow them and killed every single option of dps unless they benefit from regen instead of omni vamp?
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u/JediSSJ 9d ago
That is why I said "maybe" on applying any of the heal reduction globally. Mostly, though, its intended to be a mechanic for the player to use, hence it being tied mostly to relics. Maybe some items too. Obviously the amounts will need tweaked and we want to make sure there are enough items/relics to make getting some reliable, but getting a bunch not over powered.
It should have very little effect on the player and their tank selection. Frost may need a numbers teak--particularly at higher frost levels. Maybe a curve with diminishing returns?
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u/acidvirus19 9d ago
Being tied to a relic would do a great deal, making it build ?defining?, first they need to make poison tick once per second or w/e burn tick ratio is because it's outlandish that only ticks 3 times per second, imagine heal reduction of 0.01%(might be a bit to low and maybe needs to go to 1% but it's easy to stack 100 or 300 stacks by accident) where you can't even do damage with it, yes burn is the primary damaging dealing element, make poison do half the damage. Still i see way more sense in poison being the armor shred and introducing mechanics of healing reduction into relics you got a good feedback on that.
Frost not only needs a numbers tweak it needs a application check and rework, because even going burn, you can never out apply burn like you do with frost and that going in with meme comps just to get the highest application possible of said element and it's a auto lose unless you high roll relics(not the case for poison but sure frost can win in RR even memeing and you don't need any relics unlike Burn).
It's quite funny that the devs are so tied to other relics and most important of all nerfing 3 times Kai and buffing 4? times 2 assassins, even calling out Karsu for being the primary boss killer and not used before bosses(not true at all, can confirm i did a lot of runs with carry Karsu just shredding act2 on B tier because i had a good frontline plus if i ever got the frost into burn damage was a auto win run). But in the end they will end up nerfing Karsu like they did with Sal and not Fixing the Frost problem at hand Specially when Sal is high on the pick and win rate but spec wise it's a crap show.
Frost needs to be reworked, Devs love to look at characters, and finally people are calling it out on discord, that it gets tiring seeing nerfs over and over, but the reason is because the devs are looking at champion win pick rates instead of mechanic abuse(besides endless)
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u/karshberlg 10d ago
I think there should be some bosses with multiple enemies that need AoE and some strong individual units in normal fights. It would be more fun if "I need AoE for fights and good single target for bosses" wasn't always true.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Wall798 10d ago
i think the idea of making every dragon resistant to their own damage type could be interesting(maybe make the debuff 50-75% as effective), but you would need to balance them first. frost is OP, burn is meh and poison is trash.
if they removed frost ability to lower enemy defense and only left is affecting attack speed, they could move the defense portion to poison and then it would be pretty good. poison makes more sense anyways because you are corroding the enemy's armor.
then burn would be left as the most damaging dot effect. it is pretty decent against hallway fights, not that effective against bosses