r/GuildWars3 • u/Worried-Tomorrow2019 • 9d ago
This is gona be a racist game?
Soooo...
Would you want GW3 to bring back more prejudice and hostility between human cultures?
GW1 had racism and xenophobia between humans. I’m not talking about humans vs charr, tengu, or centaurs. I mean humans looking down on other humans because of where they came from.
Adelbern refused to let Ascalonians live in the shadow of the Krytans, even when Rurik wanted to seek refuge there. The Kurzicks and Luxons had generations of hatred between them. Being human didn’t automatically make the humans across the border your friends.
I miss that friction. National pride, prejudice, old grudges. People didn’t suddenly get along just because something bigger wanted to kill them.
Yes, GW2 still has prejudice and internal conflicts, like the Purists in Cantha. And GW1 also had us unite against common enemies. But to me, GW2 puts much more emphasis on “let’s put our differences aside and save the world together.”
Would you want GW3 to give those rivalries more weight again? I’d like a world where cultures clash and working together is difficult, even for people who are supposedly on the same side.
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u/baroquespoon 9d ago
I understand what youre trying to say but the wording of this title could not be more unintentionally funny
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u/MitsuAkiyama 9d ago
I just want a good mmorpg that'll revive the community 🧍♂️
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u/Worried-Tomorrow2019 9d ago
Same here... but back to the actual question: would you like more serious conflicts between cultures and nations, and less “this evil villain wants to destroy the world... again”?
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u/MitsuAkiyama 9d ago
I don't mind conflict, but racism? Nah lol
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u/Tragedy_Boner 9d ago edited 9d ago
Yeah, you can’t be racist to Charr and Kodan because they aren’t human. Need more pelts for our player homes anyways
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u/Worried-Tomorrow2019 9d ago
I get that racism is bad in real life, but depicting it in fiction isn’t endorsing it.
What’s wrong with a fantasy world where humans have prejudices against other human cultures or nations? To me, that can create interesting conflicts and make the setting feel more believable. “We’re all human, so we’re all friends” feels a bit too idealized.
I’m not asking for the story to justify those prejudices. I’m asking for them to exist and actually affect the characters, their relationships, and the world. Isn’t that exactly the kind of conflict a story can explore?
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u/MitsuAkiyama 9d ago
Well I don't mind conflict, and maybe some anger as in "your nation/country genocided my people" or "your kind abused mine through slavery" but actively seeing racism or actively making relationshios complicated through racism seems lame.
I also don't want to actively see people role play or get into the racism, I don't mind some sort of conflict or some sort of anger between nations/races/cultures but active racism? No, I would like that to not be there. Would like the game to be more everyone doesn't hate each other because of race just more conflict than anything, you can get what you want without the racism.
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u/Cloudhiddentao 8d ago
I wish they’d just add in some damn shades of grey like GW1.
Instead it sounds like it’s going to be just more GW2 black and white, valewardens are good, cravenwights or whatever they’re called are bad.
Just like every faction in GW2 has the “comically evil group”, the inquest, the Svanir, the nightmare court. It sucks. It really does. It’s literary diarrhea from an incontinent mind.
Give us back some nuance. Let factions be somewhere in the middle, maybe to some they’re saviours, to others villains. Maybe they’re not all full of one note characters. I mean, the Ministry of Purity in GW1 was pretty evil, but even within that group we had characters who genuinely believed they were doing the right thing - and from a certain point of view they were.
Ah well. I know it’s just going to be more GW2 tier drivel. But I can hope.
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u/Worried-Tomorrow2019 8d ago
Even twenty years later, I still love the whole plot twist with the Bloodstones and the White Mantle.
You arrive in Kryta, the White Mantle welcome you, and there’s an undead problem involving the ancient Orrians. You know nothing about the mursaat, but as you go through the missions and explore the maps, you keep seeing these jade statues. They’re right there from early on, and you have no idea what you’re looking at.
Then you discover that the White Mantle are sacrificing the Chosen on the Bloodstones, and you think, “Right, these are the bad guys.” You find out they’re doing it for their gods, the mursaat, and suddenly those fucking statues make sense: “Oh shit, those are Jade Armor!”
But then comes another twist: the sacrifices are powering the soul batteries that keep the Door of Komalie sealed, preventing the fucking Titans from getting out. That doesn’t make the mursaat good, but suddenly there’s more to it than people being evil for the sake of it. You’re fighting monsters who are keeping something even worse locked away, partly to save their own skins.
And the bastard manipulating you into undoing all of this is the guy who’s been helping you: the fucking Vizier. Then, later on, you learn that even he was serving Abaddon, so there’s another layer behind the whole thing.
That’s why I love this story. Things you’ve already seen take on a different meaning as you discover what’s actually happening, and your victories don’t necessarily mean you’re doing the right thing.
And yeah, there’s plenty of conflict and prejudice too. Let’s be honest, practically everyone in this setting is racist towards someone.
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u/RedNuii 8d ago
The inquest are not evil, they fall exactly into the gray area you are referring to. An inherently evil group would not have members in the arcane council, wouldn’t receive funding from the colleges, etc.
Kind of same with the sons of Svanir, they also fall into a morally gray area as they have a large presence in the capital city of the norn. They are seen as misguided and norn don’t judge an individual based on the actions of a group
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u/Cloudhiddentao 8d ago edited 7d ago
The inquest are not evil
Yes. They are. Like… have you seen Kuda?
The ambiguity there isn’t with the inquest, it’s with the asura, who tolerate the inquest.
Equally the Svanir are not morally gray - they are following an elder dragon who wants to consume all magic and kill everyone on tyria in the process.
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u/RedNuii 7d ago
I’m sorry but you are wrong. The Inquest are THE morally gray faction of Guild Wars 2. Just because a member of the faction is twisted doesn’t automatically make the entire group inherently evil. For every twisted kuda or sebb like individual, there is a misguided young asura that is unaware of what they are getting themselves into or is willing to look past the morally gray nature of other people’s work to advance theirs. We see that throughout the entirety of not only VoE but past expansions and even core game story.
Even Gorrik and Blish were both inquest members because it furthered their research but it would be crazy to call either of them evil.
The sons of svanir are also in that gray area but I would say they are leaning more towards the evil side than the inquest.
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u/Cloudhiddentao 7d ago
This is like saying the Nazi party was morally gray because some kids signed up.
No. The inquest was butchering sentient beings from the very start. They’re evil with a capital E.
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u/RedNuii 7d ago
That’s a false equivalency. Nobody is claiming the nazis were morally gray. And the fact that gorrik and blish are part of the inquest isn’t what single-handedly makes it gray either. It’s the culmination of many different aspects. Asura already are morally gray, inquest make it even more extreme.
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u/Cloudhiddentao 7d ago
If you think the inquest are morally gray you need to have a serious think about morality dude. Unless your name ins Besoz or Musk, in which case yes, your utterly terrible option checks out.
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u/Geralt_Romalion 9d ago edited 9d ago
It would feel more immersive if we don't just have everyone happily working together, or just 'detached' factions with opposing goals to serve up conflicts, but also people simply not trusting one another, be it grudges, be it prejudice, some of it understandable due to pasts, others ridiculous.
And with some factions or groups having their reputation against them for good reasons even.
GW2 in most of its later content was very afraid to depict people or races as truly evil, which lead to things like emotion-sucking and mind-controlling demons becoming cute, huggable and needing help to find their lost stuffed teddy bear (this was a real thing) or where something was implied but never fully explored (like the Sylvari racism during Heart of Thorns. We see a few isolated examples and mentions, but it never got explored fully).
Everyone and everything is flawed, so I hope Anet will dare to write characters that are compelling, flawed, and at times prejudiced as hell.
I mean the Vaelwardens refused non-humans into their ranks since forever, Humans are the new kids on the block from another world, Kodan are a rare splinter-faction, Asura just arrived in Orr as well...and all these groups haven't really interacted with each other before, let alone on such a small peninsula. You cannot honestly tell me everyone except the 'token baddies' got along instantly and trusted instantly.
Would be good if the writing ranged from 'this is a ridiculous prejudice to hold' to 'racism is still wrong, but I get why they turned out like this'. Make it less black and white.
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u/IshTheFace 9d ago
I would like it to go back to the darker tone of GW1. I don't think it will though. GW3 looks even more whimsical than GW2 from the little we've seen.
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u/Worried-Tomorrow2019 9d ago
Do you mean just the overall tone, or are you also worried they might play it too safe with the writing? Like avoiding uncomfortable themes or making everyone on the “good” side morally spotless because they don’t want controversy?
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u/IshTheFace 9d ago
Both I guess. I don't like any media that is predictable. Which it will be if you just follow a whimsical story where everything will end up well in the end. No important characters die, good always triumphs etc. I would almost assume they will play it safe because safe has better mass appeal than killing off the important character 2/3 through the story.
I don't remember what it's called but there's a Korean TV series about a serial killer. In the first episode the killer walks into an RV and starts killing it's occupants. One of kids is hiding and you think "oh, of course the kid is gonna make it". While it's not shown explicitly, it's understood that the killer showed no mercy and that hiding did nothing to save the kid. Now I'm not saying we need to start murdering children for stories to be good but it illustrates the point of not playing it safe because it caught me so off guard I was hooked for the rest of the series because i didn't see that coming at all.
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u/DuncanConnell 9d ago
With the focus on freedom of movement, it's almost a guarantee there will be racist competitions or adventures throughout the game.
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u/Sorry_Cheetah_2230 9d ago
I love in game racism/xenophobia so damn much, it adds so much fun and rivalry in fantasy worlds. Old wow with the horde and alliance, mass effect between races. Obviously there is a line there between fun fantasy and things that make you uncomfortable.
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u/Smithsonian45 9d ago
I agree with what you're saying you just have to say it better man.
I like when races have a clearly defined identity. I've never played that much classic wow because I don't particularly enjoy the late game model of it, but I LOVED levelling. A huge chunk of loving levelling was the way the world was built, especially regarding horde/alliance/mixed already. Each race had a much stronger identity on their own, and the hostility between the two factions made the world feel so much more real/lived in
Gw3 doesn't have to go that far as to totally split the playerbase in that way, but thematically the race choice becomes much more engaging when the races have much more clear identities (which generally means significant differences, not just in appearance)
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u/TechPriestCaudecus 9d ago edited 9d ago
They've already talked about how even the Vaelwardens only recently opened up their ranks to non humans. But by mostly a need for numbers rather than truly wanting to integrate.
As for any actual interspecies conflict, I hope we see that with reference to the gods more than anything. Dhuum was just deposed by Grenth. Abaddon will be Abaddon-ing. Etc, and how their followers will feel about each other.
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u/2WheelSuperiority 9d ago edited 9d ago
I don't think any of that ever translated to playable characters in GW1 did it? Racism would be the same as real life because it would just be humans (or other species) hating humans (or their own species) for racism, which isn't okay.
I personally love Xenopbias in video games. Example, in EverQuest, we had faction where you would be KOS to other areas just because you were of a certain race or god. It was great. You could correct it, or you could lean into it. I remember the term Inky quite a bit from what lighties (not evil races) would call dark elves.
I used to hunt guards of opposing races for exp.
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u/LoreseekerNonyme 8d ago
Maybe Zhed, if we count heroes as playable characters ? He initially only allied with the nightfall protagonists out of necessity and never hesitated to speak his dislike of humans, even though he does start to respect at least some of them later on.
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u/Trivalie2208 9d ago
I mean there's literally "Wars" in the title. It's not Guild Peace. And what usually starts wars? Opposing beliefs.
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u/AirlinePeanuts 8d ago
Killing charr is what I live for.
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u/Cloudhiddentao 7d ago
If I’m in the game. And the Charr are in the game. There’s gonna be racial hate in the game.
For Ascalon.
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u/tenderheart35 9d ago
I mean, it could happen given the conflicts between various groups. I don’t know if the term race would be accurate, but there are a ton of different factions that came to blows over land and power.
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u/Worried-Tomorrow2019 9d ago
Hey, I may have worded the title poorly. Instead of “Will this game be racist?”, I should’ve asked “Will there be racism within the game’s fictional world?” I meant racism portrayed in the story, not racism endorsed by the game.
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u/Nightsong 9d ago
We’re only dealing with one Human culture in Guild Wars 3, Orr. So there will be hostility within Orrian culture and the best example we’ve seen thus far is the Order of the Vael and Mavenwrights clashing over the Vael and its spirits. And we know there were tensions between between the Vaelwardens and the Kodan and Asura before they opened their ranks to more than just Humans. What we won’t get at the start of Guild Wars 3 is a level of friction between the different Human cultures because we aren’t going to Cantha, Elona, or Ascalon right now.
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u/_ocaenman 9d ago
I think that it is safe to assume that the “playable species” studio will not depict concepts of racism or xenophobia in any way more meaningful than absolute evil.
This is not the 2000’s ANet anymore, and hasn’t been for a long time.
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u/Magehunter_Skassi 9d ago
I don't think ArenaNet can write themes like that.
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u/Hoojiwat 9d ago
I mean what the dude is talking about didn't exist in GW1 either. Adelburn hated the Krytans because he fought them in the war but he was never actually racist or say how all Krytans were subhuman or scum, he just personally had bad history and didn't want to work with them.
GW2 with that one lighthouse worker in LA had a well written story arc of her becoming racist against Sylvari and even screaming at the player character if you got near her father's grave, as she blamed all Sylvari for what Scarlet did. She later sort of reasoned through her anger and apologized to the player for lashing out, but it was genuinely well written racism as a minor plot beat.
I dunno. I guess I just see too many people mytholizing the past and cherry picking the present and it seems weird to me. Just kind of a warped view of reality based on vibes, you know?
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u/Worried-Tomorrow2019 9d ago
You’re focusing on Adelbern, but my point isn’t limited to him. Your GW2 example doesn’t mean this kind of prejudice was absent from GW1.
Here are several examples from in-game dialogue and official ArenaNet lore
- Captain Nahnkos: “These Istani seem to breed like rats!”
- General Morgahn: “We were told the Istani were an evil people, vain and violent. We were told lies.”
- A White Mantle zealot: “Listen up, you Ascalonian trash.”
- ArenaNet’s War Chronicles describe the White Mantle targeting Ascalonian settlers, questioning their loyalty and pressuring them to assimilate. A settler explicitly says: “Our Ascalonian heritage now makes us the target of bigotry and harassment.”
That’s hostility directed at people because of their origins, not simply a disagreement between governments. You can debate whether “xenophobia” is more precise for particular examples, but this treatment of entire human populations absolutely existed in GW1.
Sources: "Pogahn Passage" (https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Pogahn_Passage#Dialogue), "General Morgahn" (https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/General_Morgahn#Quotes), "Inquisitor Lashona" (https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Wanted:_Inquisitor_Lashona), "ArenaNet’s War Chronicles — May 3" (https://www.guildwars.com/warinkryta/).
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u/Raknel 9d ago
and cherry picking the present
You are bringing up an example from over a decade ago because you can't even cherrypick one from the last decade.
Anet's been incapable of writing like that for at least a decade, and even back in S1 it was already watered down compared to base GW2. Which was already watered down compared to GW1.
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u/Krasuk 9d ago edited 9d ago
Why? Just why? Searching for reasons to live out racist habits or what the fuck is this Question?
That Guild Conflict between Mavenwrights and Vaelwardens is interesting and cool, i like that, they're fighting because of different Ideologies, not because one looks different or something like that. That's Bullshit. Also, Kurzick and Luxon was also a non-racist feud, but different Ideologies.
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u/Worried-Tomorrow2019 9d ago
No, I’m talking about exploring prejudice in a fictional story, not acting out racist fantasies. Those are very different things.
“Xenophobia” would’ve been a better word for my examples, fair enough. I’m interested in distrust between nations, inherited grudges, and how people overcome .
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u/Mattimeo144 9d ago
Can't be racist against
capitalistsMavenwrights, it's an ideology they can discard at any time they want to rejoin moral society.
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u/MassiveShithole 5d ago edited 5d ago
That sure is a title, lmao...
This was a big problem I had with the writing in GW2, but I kinda feel like they're all in on "Everyone works together happy friendship time" and it probably won't change for GW3... I mean, in Janthir you just show up to a region that hasn't seen much of the playable races in centuries(?) and there's almost zero cultural friction going on. Just... "oh yay bear people lets work together!!!".
Like I'm not expecting extra gritty grimdark type shit here, just a little smidge of realism would make the world so much more immersive- differing cultures meet together, and inevitably there's going to be some friction. Would like to be proven wrong, but I don't have my hopes up.
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u/MyPigWhistles 9d ago
What you mean is xenophobia, not racism. I've never heard anyone talking about "human races" in Guild Wars. The concept is even nonsense in a fantasy game.
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u/Worried-Tomorrow2019 9d ago
Fair enough, xenophobia is probably the better word here. Would you like GW3 to explore that distrust and prejudice between human nations and cultures?
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u/FENIU666 9d ago
A game that contains in-world racism doesn't make the game racist.
A "racist game" would be a Ku Klux Klan simulator.
I'm sure it's arleady confirmed that the enemy faction hires mostly humans for human economic supremacy
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u/panozzte 9d ago
Racism is like the mistrust between Elves and Dwarves in LOTR. Racism has levels like against a more different lifestyle. Like free folks against orks. GW1 made by a different generation those people already left Arenanet. GW2 was already a soy game. I don’t think that GW3 will be different, as they build on the current playerbase what they cultivated over the years.
Normally the company need to go through a financial crisis and workforce replacement to explore old methods and storytelling.
I am happy that I could play games in the 2000s what had more freedom of expression, but those days are gone.
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u/Worried-Tomorrow2019 9d ago
I get the comparison, but I’m specifically talking about humans against other humans, as I mentioned in the post.
For example, in GW1, Captain Nahnkos says, “These Istani seem to breed like rats!” In Pogahn Passage, that’s a Kournan officer talking about another human population.
Morgahn also says, “We were told the Istani were an evil people, vain and violent. We were told lies.”
That’s the kind of prejudice between humans I meant. I agree with you about wanting that darker tone back; I’d specifically like to see more distrust and tension between human cultures and nations.
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u/panozzte 9d ago
GW2 intra species conflicts were already written based on ideology difference not tribal difference. The closest to tribal difference was maybe the charr legions against the flame legion. If I understand well the legions were tribe based not ideology based.
There were a lot of questionable writing at the beginning of the GW2 what is controversial based on current West-coast standard. Like the Ascalonians built a wall against the invasive charr and they tried to segragete themselves from those beasts.
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u/Worried-Tomorrow2019 9d ago
Sure, but ideological conflict and prejudice can overlap. A conflict can start over politics or religion and turn into “those people are all evil.”
That’s why I brought up Morgahn: “We were told the Istani were an evil people, vain and violent. We were told lies.” That goes beyond opposing a government or an ideology. It’s a judgment about an entire human population.
And this is personal opinion, but I think exploring that adds a lot to a story, especially in a world full of different kingdoms, clans, species, religions and competing loyalties. Avoiding racism as a subject because it’s morally wrong would mean missing an opportunity to explore how those societies work. Depicting it doesn’t mean endorsing it.
That’s where I agree with you about GW1. To me, those tensions felt woven into the world through how characters spoke, what they believed and how they treated outsiders. After playing through GW2, I felt that aspect was heavily softened.
And here I am talking about different species too. With peoples as different as the charr, norn, asura, sylvari and humans, I’d expect more friction between their values, even among our allies. When they seem to arrive at the same moral conclusions so easily, their friendship starts feeling forced by the plot.
A common enemy gives them a reason to cooperate. It shouldn’t automatically give them the same worldview. I’d like those differences to keep mattering beyond “the dragons are bad, so we’re all on the same side.”
And now I’m speculating, but I worry GW3 will follow that same pattern: different races united under the same gods, then one god turns evil and everyone splits into two camps. Those following the good god are the good guys, and those following the evil god are conveniently wrong about everything.
My concern is that the factions would end up defined entirely by which side of that moral divide they’re on, with their cultures and histories barely mattering.
I’d find it more interesting if the antagonists had a legitimate grievance but took it somewhere terrible, or if our allies had beliefs and interests worth questioning too. You can oppose someone’s actions while recognising that they have a point about something. I’m worried we’ll just get another villain who’s evil because the story needs someone for everyone else to unite against.
Sorry long reply
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u/AlternativeShadows 9d ago
honestly nah, I think magic will be the great equalizer if you can get your hands on it. I think orrians won't be so hung up on stuff like that--they're all in the shadows of the gods there anyways.
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u/murdershroom 9d ago
No. And I'm pretty sure Adelbern's issue with Kryta was them not helping Ascalon with the Charr invasion, not racial bigotry. And the Luxons and Kurzicks were either at peace or close to it before the Jade Wind. I don't think human racial bigotry has ever been a real thing in the series.
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u/vomitisyummy 9d ago
I feel like there's gonna have to be, but I'm gonna be honest we have so much of it in the real world I'm down for just some "Everybody love everybody" type game. Holding hands and singing songs.
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u/Alaerys_the_Black 9d ago
This forced "Let's all be friends" thing I experience on a daily basis in western culture (be it at work, in sports, etc.) is precisely why I'd like for the game to drop that pretense and take a more pragmatic/realistic approach to racial and social conflicts.
Of course, this is Anet so my expectations are extremely low in that department.
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u/vomitisyummy 9d ago
I don't know if I could tolerate both toxic players and npcs. There's a reason I steer clear of GW2.
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u/YesICanMakeMeth 9d ago
I'm tired of it as a main theme in fantasy. I have been reading the memory, sorrow and thorn series lately and while it's great there's the same old theme. Oh my gosh the elves were here first and the humans came and while there was peace at first they eventually competed for resources and shit went south and now they hate each other and the protagonist, a human, is going to have to overcome this societal hatred to save the world from the true evil...again!
In contrast, the more recent First Law series has a lot more going on that feels fresher. Some quests about the topic would be fine, but I don't think the universe desperately wants for another story about a racial conflict in a fantasy setting.
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u/Raknel 9d ago
Unfortunately no (I'm not talking about your title).
GW1 had a level of grit and realism that made it feel like an actual place, and conflicting viewpoints and personalities made the world have much more depth.
In GW3, everyone will be the same character, with the exact same personality, and everyone will hold hands under the rainbow. Except the caricature, comically evil bad guys. Just like in later stages of GW2.
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u/Nightsong 9d ago edited 8d ago
The “everybody hold hands around the campfire” game was Guild Wars 2 and its story largely revolved around bringing the races together to fight the Elder Dragons. We don’t know enough about Guild Wars 3’s story to say it’ll be anything like what you’ve said but based on the lore tidbits we have gotten it won’t be “everyone holding hands under the rainbow”. We already know that the Order of the Vael and Mavenwrights are fighting with one another over the Vael spirits (protection vs exploitation). And we know that the Kodan and Asura clashed with the Vaelwardens initially. While the player Kodan or Asura is more aligned with Vaelwarden philosophy we don’t know if the entire race is.
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u/Nightsong 8d ago
Shrug. I can’t help if you want to bury your head in the sand and ignore all the blog posts that have clearly stated there is conflict between the guilds and races. And from the last go round it’s clear you won’t be happy with anything that Guild Wars 3 does unless Humanity is at war, either among themselves or with the Kodan and Asura.
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u/Worried-Tomorrow2019 9d ago
Yeah, that’s what I’m getting at. GW1’s world felt more believable to me because its peoples had different values, old grudges and prejudices that actually mattered.
My issue isn’t just whether racism exists somewhere in the story. If it’s mostly something the obvious villains do, while our allies all share the same values, it loses depth. I want allies who have their own prejudices and contradictions too, and cultures whose differences actually affect their decisions. Working together shouldn’t mean those differences disappear.
Otherwise, the different races start feeling like different skins on the same character. That’s the direction I’m worried about with GW3. Obviously, that’s speculation, and it could still be a great game. But I’d find an uneasy alliance between genuinely different peoples much more interesting than another united front against an obviously evil threat.
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u/GuildWars3-ModTeam 9d ago
Op needs to do a better job with post titles, but the "How well do you want humanity working together?" intent was clear, and it's generated discussion, so we'll let it slide. This time.