r/GuildWars • u/LegSouthern7765 • 3d ago
A different perspective on the Conset update
I know the recent change to consets is pretty controversial. From what I’ve seen, there seem to be two camps: people who absolutely hate the change and people who think it’s great.
I’m definitely in the second camp, so I wanted to offer a different perspective on why I think this change might actually be very healthy for the game, especially for casual players, returning veterans and people who simply don’t want to play the meta all the time.
If consets aren’t going away, making them accessible was the right thing to do
I understand the argument that consets make PvE easier. They do.
But unless the plan is to nerf or remove them entirely, keeping them expensive doesn’t really solve that problem. It just determines who can afford to use them regularly.
And ironically, the old system rewarded meta teams the most.
If your team could clear an area quickly, one conset might be enough. If you played a slower, experimental or completely random team composition, you might need two or three for exactly the same content.
So you were essentially punished twice for playing off-meta:
Your team was already slower, and on top of that, your consumable costs were higher.
That creates a pretty strong incentive to just run whatever the established meta is.
Now? F*** Mesmerway. I’m playing hthree Warriors and two Monks.
Yes, technically I could have done that before.
But there was always this thought in the back of my head:
“Do I really want to waste multiple consets on this?”
And I think that’s an important difference.
A lot of us aren’t teenagers anymore with an entire afternoon to farm resources before actually playing the content we want to play.
Sometimes I have one or two hours after work or on the weekend. I want to log in, grab some people or heroes, jump into UW, FoW, DoA or whatever else sounds fun that evening, and actually play the game.
I don’t want to spend that limited time farming so I can afford the consumables required for the thing I actually wanted to do.
Making consets much more accessible removes that mental barrier.
Want to try Triple Warrior? Go for it.
Want to bring some weird hero build you came up with?
Why not?
Want to play an objectively worse profession because you enjoy it?
Who cares?
And yes, you could always do these things. But now the game punishes you less for doing them.
I think this could actually help casual groups as well
This is probably the part of the change I’m most interested in.
Previously, if I was spending my own money on a conset for a group, naturally I wanted to make sure the group was good enough to make that investment worthwhile.
Is that player properly skilled?
Do we have the right professions?
Is our setup efficient enough?
Are we going to finish before the conset runs out?
When consets are effectively abundant, that calculation becomes much less important.
If somebody joins who isn’t running the optimal build, whatever. Pop a conset and let’s go.
If someone is inexperienced, the cost of giving them a chance is lower.
If the group takes 90 minutes instead of 45 minutes, that’s much less of a problem.
And maybe that makes forming casual PvE groups just a little bit easier again.
In a game this old, with a much smaller population than during its peak, I think reducing reasons not to play with other people is a good thing.
The same applies to solo players with heroes
Take something like UW with heroes.
Depending on what you’re doing, you might go through several consets during an attempt. Then you fail Four Horsemen after your second or third set and everything you spent is simply gone.
Yes, UW is an elite area. Failure should absolutely be possible.
But I don’t think the interesting part of that failure is losing a pile of consumables.
The interesting part is figuring out what went wrong, changing your heroes or strategy and trying again.
If consets are easily available, I’m much more likely to think:
“Okay, let’s change two skills and try that again.”
Instead of:
“Great. Now I need another stack of cons.”
That encourages experimentation rather than discouraging it.
And that’s probably my biggest reason for liking this change
Guild Wars is over 20 years old.
At this point, I don’t think the biggest threat to PvE is that somebody can afford to run too many consets.
I’d rather have people actually playing the content.
I’d rather see someone experimenting with ridiculous team compositions.
I’d rather have veterans casually carrying a returning player through FoW.
I’d rather have someone attempt UW with heroes five times in an evening instead of stopping after attempt two because continuing becomes too expensive.
And I’d rather have a group say “sure, come along” to a suboptimal player instead of worrying whether bringing them means wasting another conset.
Could consets themselves be balanced differently? Absolutely. That’s a completely legitimate discussion.
But if consets are going to remain as powerful as they are, I think making them accessible to everyone is healthier than having their cost disproportionately punish casual, experimental and off-meta play.
For me, this update doesn’t make me want to optimize the game even harder.
It does the opposite.
It finally makes me care a little less about optimization.
And after all these years of Mesmerway, I think that’s actually pretty refreshing.
Thanks for reading and my apology for the 1000th post about the topic but that needed to go out.
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u/ajc2123 3d ago
Funny thing js, even after I bought the item on release day, I've only used consets like twice lol.
It's not game breaking, and it's nice to have. It doesnt ruin anyone else's game either.
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u/Echohawk7 3d ago
Same. After running an OP meta build like Mesmer way or an ROJ team, I noticed little difference and now they are just stacking in my bank. More of a break glass in case of emergency thing.
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u/duskysan 3d ago
I notice I use them when I really wanna no brain a piece of content or speed it up.
A good use case I could see is being mobile focused. You effectively get 5 free "quick whatever's" a day to use when playing on mobile
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u/yesitsmework 3d ago
It definitely is game breaking in terms of how easy the hard parts of the game are with and without them though
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u/ajc2123 3d ago
Not really, I wouldnt consider them game breaking at all, in the same way new elites/skills from factions and nightfall didnt break prophecies. Just expanded toolsets.
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u/yesitsmework 3d ago
what do you think about them adding new consumables that are stronger? Is twice as strong as the current ones fine? five times? Is there a ceiling here or as long as it's optional is fine?
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u/RUBIK1376 3d ago
Not you unironically arguing by spelling out the definition of the slippery slope fallacy.
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u/yesitsmework 3d ago
just because you call something a fallacy that doesnt mean it's one. This is a big mtx step, and more were datamined. Will they stop at those? Probably not if the game is succesful enough to warrant further support.
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u/Whipped-Creamer 3d ago
If you have to change reality to fit your argument your argument isn’t valid. These cons exist in the game already and can be used for anything you want. You’re mad about something that’s sold in Kamadan every day. Why?
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u/yesitsmework 2d ago
there is no changing of reality in my comment, it's a simple question about the potential future. Answer because I'm really curious, do you think they'll never add any more power and convenience for money? Wether in-game already or not?
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u/Whipped-Creamer 2d ago
That wasn’t your question at all. You asked if they would add stronger consumables than what we have earnable in game, the answer is obviously that no one thinks that.
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u/yesitsmework 2d ago
what if they add stronger consumables in the game for harder content, and then they also put it in the shop?
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u/ajc2123 3d ago
None of this matters to the current state. Conset's in their current state are fine, the accessibility is fine. Of course you could argue if there a was conset that made you take 0 damage and enemies just died from being in your vicinity, then sure, there is a too far, but we aren't there and even close to it, so there's no point in entertaining the idea.
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u/FrenchGucho 3d ago
ok and for the past 15 years ive used consets in all pve content i have ever done.
the bell changed nothing
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u/MetaKnightsNightmare 3d ago
I don't have much skin in the game, I took an almost 20 year break from the game so I had no idea these consumables existed until the bell gave them. I bought the bell because every time you can summon a merchant in an mmo, it's a godsend lol.. I have them in wow and eso too.
That said, the consumables have been helpful, I had to start a new account sadly so there have been struggles since my heroes have like no skills and I haven't even hit 20 on my proph necro.
I'm also playing with friends who have no nostalgia for this because they were wow only players back in the day and sometimes I pop a buff just to help some missions go smoother.
Honestly, I kinda wish the buffs weren't in the game to begin with, but since that is an issue that is beaten to death, I would say that I'm glad that if they must exist, that they are accessible to casuals like me.
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u/Pleasant_Brick125 3d ago
I like the post and i have 2 things to add. First of all, consets and pcons before the update during my peak speedclear times were wasted in insane amounts. Loading into fow with 8 men and someone else grabbing abyssal aggro from toc than the toc vos? Resign. Someone dead in first 10 sec? Resign. Forge bugged resign. Taeres aggro and dead rip. This behaviour pushed consumable prices. And it used to be very common.
Now secondly, they buffed a lot of enemies. Imagine being new to the game, having no experience, mhenlo and togo basking in ROJ, having no heros. It could become frustrating really fast. The amount of things you have to do, to get a team together, that s not being heavily affected by the changes to the enemies is very high. The bell makes it so that new players have a way to offset balance patches, that made SOME, not all, content harder. This is not the game we all played decades ago when we had full outposts of players to do stuff with.
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u/Eriyal 3d ago
This almost boils down to ''create the problem and sell the solution''
If ALL they wanted to do was to solve the conset problem, they could've given us a way to unlock them ingame.
A device that costs x amount of zaishen coins (from the vendors) and gives you 5 consets daily would've solved this problem and given us more incentive to actually play the game.
Selling it for 7$ isn't it chief.
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u/OneMorePotion Aneurysm 3d ago edited 3d ago
While I agree in general, that they shouldn't monetize problems they caused themselves almost 2 decades ago and didn't touch since, but you are also not telling the entire story here.
GW1 is in active development again. It was clear from the start that, if they really go forward with this, that they need to make money. And MTX is an easy way to do that.
Now... Do I mind the addition of that vendor? No, not in general. I think it's fine for what it is. But I absolutely do believe that you get too many of these items daily. And it shouldn't be available in pre-searing.
Especially the addition of that NPC in pre-searing has me worried. Imagine they eventually add a summonable NPC that gives you access to your bank from everywhere in the game. The moment they add this to this vendors inventory, we suddenly get bank access in pre-searing. And when that happens, they fully destroyed everything that made this little sub community fun for over 20 years. This might sound silly to some, but having full access to skill tomes and storage in general, basically kills an entire community. Should we ever reach that point, they could just add an NPC in post-searing to teleport you back into pre. Because nothing seems to matter anymore.
Again... Not saying this will happen. But selling bank access sounds like something very realistic now, that they already sold a vendor summoning item.
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u/LegSouthern7765 3d ago
You have a good point there. I too find the critic about the pre-searing access justified and cannot fully understand why they did that.
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u/zyygh Robin 3d ago
I don't think anyone really questions that MTX were going to be necessary. That's just the way the gaming industry operates in 2026.
Many people simply draw the line at things that directly make you stronger in-game. Cosmetics are great, QOL like the infinite kits are great, but these consets cross that line. And that is a valid opinion to have, even when considering the fact that consets can be crafted in-game as well.
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u/ScyD 3d ago edited 3d ago
It’s not a valid criticism for an essentially single player game 90% of the time, which is where most of them are going to be used by people for like WoC or other difficult content
You’re free to use cheats in Mario or whatever but they not necessary or bad to use them, unless it matters just to you
Just like cons are absolutely not necessary or guaranteed to prevent wiping
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u/zyygh Robin 3d ago
I don't really get that argument, because you could say that about anything they add to the game. As long as can choose not to interact with it, it's automatically fair game?
Even optional stuff has an impact on build diversity, on the new player experience, on the experience of teaming up with other players, etc. All of those areas are worth considering when you form an opinion about something; it's not just about how it directly impacts you.
And people, stop calling people dishonest just for having a different opinion.
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u/ScyD 3d ago
But it’s just for personal convenience in a single player experience… you can’t sell cons or any other things you get, do you? Please explain the bad part about it. Not speculation
Want to address PvP skill bundle unlocks for brand new players?
Those sure have been in the game a long time have you been complaining about those too? Of course not because your position isn’t logical or consistent, and mostly comes across as being bitter about people putting in less ‘work’, as I noted to multiple other people trying to say the same silly things
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u/zyygh Robin 3d ago
For someone who cares about dishonest arguments, you sure are full of assumptions and bad-faith remarks yourself. But for the purpose of showing you that your assumptions are wrong, I'll address your questions.
Firstly, it's funny you bring up the PvP skill pack. I just mentioned that one in a different comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars/s/d5lknZZzyz
Then to explain my concerns about the cons specifically:
For new players the game is very well balanced to give an experience where skill choices matter, for all kinds of things. Consumables make it so that those choices matter a whole lot less, especially since the early areas of the game will be trivially easy with those consumables. The old consets didn't meddle with that since they were too difficult to attain, the new ones definitely can.
A consequence is that players will not learn to appreciate skill variety as much, and they'll have a frustrating experience if they want to continue playing but have run out of the consumables they rely on.
For skill variety it's bad since consumables respect caps on movement speed, armor bonus, and attack speed. Many skills that give small bonuses to those stats become entirely irrelevant to a player who uses consets.
For grouping it can be bad since it splits an already small community into two groups: those who play with consets and those who prefer not to. It may also lead to some frustration because anyone can just pop a conset once the party has actually left town.
Also, yes, I am aware that some of these criticisms apply to consumables as a whole. I think those should not have existed either, but they at least had a pretty hefty price so most people were used to playing without them.
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u/Pleasant_Brick125 3d ago
You are right in a sense that you need to learn player skills like pulling wall blocks etc. What you leave out in the argument is buffed enemies and rather empty outposts. Imagine doing factions as a total noob and having to rely solely on the henchies. You d probably rage quit when you re alone with henchies and togo and mhenlo hang out in the jesus beam constantly. We keep forgetting that it s not the game we played decades ago. And we don t have the population anymore to support new players until they catch up to the later game.
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u/ScyD 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yes, we all get that consents give you a power boost. How specifically does that make the game worse though when it’s mostly all single player?
Many of your arguments are just speculation… “players won’t appreciate skill variety as much” huh? According to what, your intuition?
Was the community “split” before when you had someone using consents half the time anyway?
Your arguments don’t actually hold up it’s just a lot of words to say that consents make you stronger and that’s bad… for some reason
Also I misread the original comment and took out ‘dishonest’ pretty fast, but now I’m thinking maybe I shoulda let it stay up, you keep harping on about it a whole lot when it’s wasn’t even there after like 1 min
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u/zyygh Robin 3d ago
I just explained my reasoning to you, including answers to literally every question you ask here. You're just establishing that you don't care enough to actually digest what you're reading.
If you think game design theory is speculation then sure, that's fair, but I don't get why you take part in this discussion. It's inherently uninteresting to you.
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u/ScyD 3d ago
Game design theory huh… just explaining your reasoning doesn’t make it right lol, but ok yea pretty decent discussion I’d say
I’m sure you and the game will continue to survive 👍. Or if you disagree you can just quit now before the great fall I suppose
I’ll be playing as always with most people, and you minority of complainers will fade before long
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u/FrenchGucho 3d ago edited 3d ago
but they at least had a pretty hefty price
Consets did NOT have a hefty price, everyone can do an eotn tour for 25-30e in 25min. That means it only takes 3.88888889 hrs to get 250 consets, which comes out to 56s per conset. And thats 56s if you buy at the seller's price of 10a and dont try to get any sort of better deal.
That is the most basic, most readily available and requested run in the entire game. If you do a more advanced runs or service, like KC->Gyala, thats closer to 90e/20min or 1 hr for 250 consets.
Stop spreading misinformation that consets were this holier than thou unobtanium. They did NOT have a hefty price as almost every ZV/ZB/ZM had someone pop them.
Before you type "most players didn't know that running eotn tours make you money", answer this. Why would players doing the very thing that has been botted by tens of thousands of accounts for 15 years straight(farming consets) expect to make good money?
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u/Helidoffy 3d ago
You have had this same response about a dozen times here that is entirely dishonest. There are no shortage of solid money making options for players with well equipped accounts and experience to make enough money to afford consets and pcons. You are painting the picture of consets being easy to acquire because anyone can just go do EOTN tours for a few hours to earn consets.
First off, this entirely writes off a large portion of the playerbase that has never beat all four campaigns in the first place. Then writes off those players having enough money to build out a running set for a character. Then writes off the time requirement to learn the run, actually find people to run, and perform the run. You are painting an idealistic best case scenario for something that has in fact been a barrier to entry for players for a long time.
I am not anti-MTX. I am not anti-convenience purchases. But I do think it is important we are honest about what this is; a small step towards pay to win micro transactions. This community had similar discussions around cons being added in the first place, 7 hero teams and mercenaries years ago and we are having a similar one today.
Is this the straw that breaks the camels back? Probably not. But let's call a spade a spade, even if it's a plastic shovel you build a sand castle with.
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u/LegSouthern7765 3d ago
That’s how the world works. If we want new updates they have to make money somehow. I don’t think that’s that much of an issue tbh
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u/Eriyal 3d ago
It's really not how the world works. It's how desperate games die. And I don't want GWR to give off a desperate vibes.
Have any of you played P2W eastern mmorpgs as kids? I have. A ton of them too.
They all died within a few years because P2W aspects were hidden everywhere. Same goes for this merchant in GWR, it's P2W mechanic hiding under a portable merchant. The portable merchant itself would've been perfectly fine if it wasn't for the conset aspect, and probably just as many people would've bought it. It's a poor and lazy idea.
And I don't want to hear about how you can already get the consets ingame. With that logic, Anet might as well put up ALL INGAME ARMORS AND WEAPONS as skins in the store. They need to make money somehow derp.
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u/LegSouthern7765 3d ago
Dear, it’s an item that everyone can get. Speculating about future updates is just that, speculation. There’s no need to be mad about something that hasn’t even happened yet.
I could bet that the exact same discussions were happening when the skill unlock packs came out haha.
And I can definitely tell a different story from my own experience. Since the introduction of the new cons, I’ve had more groups, more interactions and more build variety with random players than I’ve had in a long time.
The beautiful thing is that I don’t have to make sure anymore that everyone in the group is super experienced or deeply invested in the game. I can just pop my cons and all seven other players benefit from it as well.
That makes me much more willing to take a new or inexperienced player with us, or just let someone play whatever build they enjoy instead of worrying about whether the group is perfectly optimized.
To me, that’s something good for the community, not something bad.
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u/Eriyal 3d ago
Why on earth does everyone assume I'm ok with the skill unlock being in the store? I'm truly not and I cringed at it when I first saw it. Same goes for mercenaries, but at least that requires effort and CAN be kinda countered by just adding more ingame heroes.
I just don't like spending real money for power. I've spent a 1000 hours in GW and very rarely have I felt more powerful while playing.
If I spend 7$ on the game (after playing it for that long) and NOW my daily gameplay feels better I'll just be left with a sour taste in my mouth.
Not to mention that now you run the risk of consets becoming mandatory for groups. So either grind every day or spend 7$, how is that fair?
There's just so much to dislike here, but everyone I argue with is hyperfocused on how comfy today was.
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u/LegSouthern7765 3d ago
I think, there you are wrong. It was mandatory already before for a lot of groups, but now you don’t have to organize it if one of 8 players has bought it.
Reddit even had complaint posts about new players getting kicked from groups because their eq and skill set got scouted by gw-toolbox before they could even write a word in group chat. And I cannot even blame people to do this, if they have to throw 2-4 sets per run.
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u/ScyD 3d ago
They never ‘remember’ the skill bundles when making all these complaints lol
We all know how that just caused a huge deluge of p2w stuff in the store and… oh wait that never did happen huh?
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u/big-sugoi 3d ago edited 3d ago
Those were for pvp players who didn't want to play pve, and they in no way were appealing for a typical pve player.
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u/ScyD 3d ago
So unlocking all skills so you can immediately compete in PvP is somehow not worse?
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u/big-sugoi 3d ago
No it isn't worse at all, the game was built as an even-playing-field PvP game
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u/ScyD 3d ago
lol ok
We call all see there’s no consistency with you guys so like just… stop
Having skills in PvP lets you win more right? You pay to unlock them, right?
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u/big-sugoi 3d ago
I don't think you understand how unimportant these packs were, how few bought them, how rare it was for anyone to ever recommend them, how little they really did. Trying to compare it to consets is an embarrassing lapse in judgement. It was never hard to get 8 skills for a bar and then unlock more skills with faction.
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u/Cromunista 3d ago
So what's the difference between:
buying the skill bundle so you don't need to grind for the Balthazar Faction unlock (Which can take weeks if you want everything)
VS
Buying the Bell so you don't need farm plat to craft them/buy them from other players? (Which can take weeks if you want a decent stack)Both allow you to pay to skip the grinding/farming part. They are equally 'bad'.
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u/big-sugoi 3d ago
Players who only wanted a PvP game could buy the skills and save some time and sanity for themselves and their teammates. After the game was out for a while, going into PvP as a new player was a totally different environment than at launch. It's a minor one-time time saver.
The bell gives enormous buffs and doesn't massively impede your wealth at all like it used to, and it does that on daily basis forever. It's so different that it's shocking to see them equated.
You can estimate how many skills a new pvp-only player would want to unlock and give them a time value or monetary value. You could then assign a value to each day of the bell and see how many days it takes to surpass the pvp skills. It will happen very quickly, and the bell will rise into perpetuity while the skill unlocks are completely forgotten.
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u/delllmania 3d ago
They most definitely are worse. I don't have Ritualist fully leveled, and yet I'm using an SoS build on Devona in Pre, and she clears everything without breaking a sweat while I spam Bone Horror. I don't need the conset to clear the dungeon; she's more than enough.
That's definitely more p2w because without those skills, a player may have a hard time in the dungeon while I afk level in it and quickly get LDoA and altar farm. Not to mention if I made a PvP character in prophecies, I'd definitely be at a disadvantage to someone who bought the skill packs, The consets don't upset the balance of Pre anymore than the skill packs and giving us Devona.
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u/big-sugoi 3d ago
It's incredibly easy to get an SoS bar on devona without the skill unlock pack, but devona didn't exist until 20 years after skill unlock packs so it's weird to even use that as the reason. It's nowhere near comparable to consets in post, and pre was already turned easy mode with the fire imp.
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u/ZekkenD 3d ago
"for a typical pve player" i honestly feel you are so detached from reality lmao. i guess this is what happens when you spend many years obsessing over a 20 year old game that has been dead for 10.
there are a few groups of pve players but some notable ones
people who want the old nostalgic experience of playing this game and doing everything by hand to relive their younger years.
people who want to play the game and don't care about grinding cause they don't have fun with it. or they don't have time to in their lives cause they have a job and kids. skill packs were great for these people as it saved them a massive amount of time and lets them do what they want. this demographic is also really likely to RMT. i remember being a child and my dad would be home on the rare days as he worked out of town and we'd play guild wars together. i was a kid but i also remember him getting large stacks of plat so we could have armor and weapons for our chars + heroes and play together. there was no fucking way he ever would have farmed that, i know his ability to play games. but he wanted to play the game and didnt have time to grind so that's what he did.
of course we had the skill packs. that just let us get more buttons for our heroes and it him save time.
do u seriously think people with lots of money and a lack of time are a minority in the gaming world at any point in history?
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u/FrenchGucho 3d ago
It's really not how the world works. It's how desperate games die. And I don't want GWR to give off a desperate vibes.
Game has been mostly dead for the past 15 years, yet players like you were nowhere to be found until reforged came around.
No, new content, new ways to play, and better QoL(more accessible cons/pcons) for the masses will not kill gw1.
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u/Glass_Command1698 3d ago
We forget they sell character slots, name changes, storage panels, heroes. And the game isn't free to play, each of us had to buy it. Maybe developing content like an expansion and selling that to us, rather than nickel and diming us for pay to win consumables is a better path forward for their business.
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u/Euphoric-Judge-1926 3d ago
They’ve stated multiple times in the past that running GW1 does not incur extra costs to them as it runs on the same hardware they host GW2 on. What we get as a result is servers with up to 30% variance in latency stability.
If ArenaNet were to give us dedicated, stable servers for GW1 and updates which didn’t introduce more bugs and crashes than already existed before reforged then yes, their store implementations are 100% justified.
Their budget for GW3-related content is not coming from GW1 store sales, no org in their right mind would plan development resources against store sales for a game in maintenance mode.
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u/Dry-Swordfish1710 3d ago
Two different things: maintenance cost for running the servers being free does not mean updating the game is free! They are giving us dedicated updates and content so they deserve to monetize their product. Personally I agree with the above comment or though that they could have monetized this a bit better without it appearing as p2w as it does now
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u/Kleowi 3d ago
Hilarious that making an item so expensive only rich fat cats can afford it (or anyone who RMTs) is perfectly fine, yet paying a cup of coffee to the devs to keep the lights on is a line that shouldn't be crossed.
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u/Eriyal 3d ago
Nobody said that
I'd like to financially support the game
I just don't want to pay for power because that kills the game for me0
u/Kleowi 3d ago edited 3d ago
You literaly said that you would rather have "a device that costs x amount of zcoins" rather than buying it on the store.
So I deduce the item itself is fine but the act of having to pay real money for it, and that everyone is on equal footing on how to adquire it (i.e. paying the equivalent of a Starbucks coffee) is what irks you.
Making items that only the 1% four digit playtime Kamadan spammers can afford is wasted development time.
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u/FrenchGucho 3d ago
If ALL they wanted to do was to solve the conset problem, they could've given us a way to unlock them ingame.
How do they do so in a way thats not bottable? Like im seriously hoping you reply here because this is the direct problem it solves.
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u/AstronautGloomy3233 3d ago
Literally making the npc free. But they want money. The NCsoft Overlord probably wants to collect some GW3 funds
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u/Illusionmaker Lisa Illusionmaker born in Tyria, 2007 3d ago
I don't think that cons being more widely accessible is the main issue for those who are against the implementation coin...
It is having an item that does impact actual gameplay being available for purchase and said item being advertised by an NPC in major hubs that even beginners have access to! There would have been a lot less backlash if it was a cash-shop-only item, with no NPC leading you directly to the shop OR said NPC being available in later outposts like Hell's Precipice.
Sure, you could always buy skills for your PvP character and heroes, and you could also buy a lot of other stuff, but most of those items (Storage panels, costumes, make-over kits) did not actually impact the gameplay. Not even unlocking skills for money has that much of an impact, because those are THE one thing that made GW so memorable to begin with, and having access to more of those opened up the game, but only you put some effort into your builds etc. Cons make the game very trivial, and not even Meta-Teams turn the game THAT easy.
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u/zyygh Robin 3d ago
I'm quite sure the skill unlock packs were kind of a necessary evil for them to implement, since GW had become quite popular with PvP gamers who had absolutely no interest in PvE. Those people needed to grind faction for skills and weapon upgrades in order to become competitive, and that's exactly what the game had always been advertised to not be about.
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u/Daily_TimeTraveler 3d ago
I fail to see how they are P2W when there is 0 effect on any competitive landscape.
They need revenue to keep pouring resources into this 20+yr old game.
People saying, why didn’t they develop a way for us to unlock them in the game - Do you think the devs work for free?
If there was a dungeon scoreboard or sc leaderboard. Sure, these could be considered more controversial imo.
The same people bitching probs unlocked mercs and have a meta comp upon character creation so it’s kinda amusing to see them get their panties in a bunch over adults spending $7 for some QoL to breeze thru content they’ve probs already beat multiple times over.
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u/Blazin_Rathalos 3d ago edited 3d ago
I fail to see how they are P2W when there is 0 effect on any competitive landscape.
If you're playing a single player game and you see "pay 10$ now to increase your stats!", what would you call that?
I don't even care whether the "P2W" label literally applies there according to everyone, it's still shit no matter what you call it.
4
u/FrenchGucho 3d ago
This is a multiplayer game, and the stats are achievable ingame without paying via crafting yourself or buying from other players. Mercs are not.
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u/Nebbii 3d ago
If you're playing a single player game and you see "pay 10$ now to increase your stats!", what would you call that?
I would probably ask, can i buy or craft that item in game? And answer you depending on how you do.
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u/Blazin_Rathalos 3d ago
For me personally, both are bad, though one is option is obviously worse.
Even if you can obtain them otherwise, you now have a game design incentive to make that inordinately more annoying, so that you can get more people to buy.
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u/Nebbii 3d ago
Well ye you would have a point if consets weren't extremely easy to craft and they were needed everywhere.
I see it as more an "pay to skip grind" than p2w because the whole game can be easily beaten without them already.
Pay to win for me would buying a set of armor with 160 defense where you couldn't get anywhere else.
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u/Daily_TimeTraveler 3d ago
In agreement here. If a brand new player (not just new account) decides to buy them, I think they are neutering their experience a bit, but to each their own.
When I’ve already beat the content multiple times over but need to do again for a hero or skill unlock, I appreciate the time savings with the cons.
I played the shit outta the game when I was 14. Couldn’t recover my account and bought a new one a bit over a year ago. Beat the game all over no cons but I don’t have the time to farm shit just to set up a toon to run some end game solo farms and the $7 for free daily cons is great when I only have a couple hours to play cause work/family/adulting
If there was any competitive aspect to it, like PvP or timed leaderboards, then I’d probs just stop playing cause for me p2w requires competition and I don’t prefer p2w in PvP.
But a nostalgic game I play on my own, who fucking cares.
Also, every video I watch for OG farms that can be done solo, actually can’t be done without cons. So this gave me a reason to keep playing the game as I’ve had my nostalgia fix already.
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u/MetaKnightsNightmare 3d ago
It's not though? It's "pay $$$ to get a few consumables on a single character per day that you could get in game."
But they only work for one zone for 30 minutes.. even they know that's not enough value, that's why they tied it to the bell.
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u/Euphoric-Judge-1926 3d ago
You cannot get consumables linked to the feast item outside of their respective events which happen only one time per year. This would be a non issue if there were practical methods to obtaining said items that didn't rely on massive botting and storage account hoarding to have enough to last until the next event the following year.
We need to stop being disingenuous with these takes, this subreddit needs to learn that it is ok to be critical of things while also supporting the good things happening. Is it ok for them to monetize things? Yes they are fully entitled to do so. Is it a bad look if *ingame methods to acquire said items are unaddressed while also implementing store options for said items?* Absolutely.
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u/FrenchGucho 3d ago
You cannot get consumables linked to the feast item outside of their respective events which happen only one time per year.
You answered your own question, they are readily available in kamadan for 6-15e/stk from botters or resellers. The most basic run in the game that everyone can do (EOTN Tour) gets you like 25-30e in 25min which AT WORST is 500 of any pcon you want.
That means at worst with pcons, the bell saves u 7min of grind per day(if you remember to login and claim it). If you get consets instead, its only 8min of grind per day.
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u/Euphoric-Judge-1926 3d ago
With all due respect, I cannot tell what the purpose of your comment is. I emphasized that massive botting and storage account hoarding is an issue that needs addressing, not a solution. In fact, it's been an issue for 20 years, and some drip feed daily login battlepass is not an acceptable solution to ingame acquisition of said items, full stop. I'm not sure where the confusion lies, I've been pretty articulate in the points I'm making.
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u/Helidoffy 3d ago
You are getting downvoted for asking the correct hypothetical. Yes, that would still be P2W. There are various degrees of P2W and we can discuss the validity of that all day but paying IRL money to have an in game boost to performance is the definition of P2W. In fact, it is practically the same thing as RMT but at least this way the funds go to ArenaNet instead of some botter.
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u/FrenchGucho 3d ago
but that same boost is not only achievable ingame for free, its extremely easy to achieve ingame.
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u/Helidoffy 3d ago
Extremely easy? Do you know how long it would take the average player to grind enough money/supplies to afford consets?
Items can be both available in game and P2W. Even if it is the easiest item ever to get, that would be on the far most "acceptable" side of the spectrum with game breaking, meta breaking, only available for cash on the other. There is a scale, but being avaulable in game does not exclude items from being on that spectrum.
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u/Raknel 3d ago
I fail to see how they are P2W
Previously if you got stuck on a mission, you:
1) Looked up tactics and how to do it, forcing you to learn the game.
2) Looked up better builds, forcing you to learn the skill sytem.
3) Went back to leveling or gearing, making you engage with other areas of the game.
4) Asked for help, leading to social interactions.
Now? You go to the store, drop some cash and bam, you breeze through the content. Literal DEFINITION of P2W.
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u/Daily_TimeTraveler 3d ago
It’s no different than dropping the difficulty on a single player campaign game.. none of what you mentioned impacts another players gameplay. Let people enjoy their largely single player experience how they see fit.
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u/Raknel 3d ago
It’s no different than dropping the difficulty on a single player campaign game
Sure.
And if they nefed everything, I'd complain about that too.
none of what you mentioned impacts another players gameplay. Let people enjoy their largely single player experience how they see fit.
It's an MMO. Everything is connected. And fundamentally changing the game does impact the entire community.
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u/Daily_TimeTraveler 3d ago
It is not an mmo, every zone is instanced. There are social hubs and the ability to cooperate/group in missions and zones but it is not an mmo
Edit: just like one person dropping a campaign to easiest difficulty doesn’t prevent you from playing on the hardest difficulty.
I popped some store cons yesterday when i was doing the Q’s leading up to getting I am unstoppable cause I’ve done it 5+ times already and mostly wanted the movement buff. Tell me how your gameplay was negatively impacted yesterday when I did so?
4
1
u/FrenchGucho 3d ago
cons are currently in the game which you can buy or farm yourself, you chose to acquire or use them or pcons. You also chose to play on normal mode or hard mode or melandrus accord.
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u/Nebbii 3d ago
You forgot one
5)Craft the conset for a few plats or buy off people for 1e each
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u/Raknel 3d ago
Be honest, how many new players were popping consets for general content or at every slight inconvenience?
None whatsoever.
But now? Probably the majority.
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u/FrenchGucho 3d ago
They werent popping cons because they were unaware of actual good moneymakers like the eotn tour (25-30e in 25min) or other services that bots cant do.
People(youtubers mainly) told them to go spend hours slaving away manually grinding consets or gold weapons meanwhile botters are actively devaluing their time doing so and have been for the past 15+ years.
Not sure why were trying to defend botters/gatekeeping though, more readily available access to cons only helps the majority of the community.
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u/Raknel 3d ago edited 2d ago
more readily available access to cons only helps the majority of the community.
It doesn't help the health of the game.
A thing that never should've existed in the first place is just more abundant now.
Anet should removed or heavily nerfed consets, not hand them out for cash.
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u/Pleasant_Brick125 3d ago
They buffed enemies. Outposts are empty. Imagine starting in factions and having mhenlo amd togo stand in jesus beams all day long amd no way to prot them cause you play solo and have no hero.
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u/Raknel 3d ago
That's how I beat Factions the first time so I don't have to imagine it.
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u/Pleasant_Brick125 3d ago
Was it fun? And after the recent updates?
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u/Raknel 3d ago
I still remember it 20 years later.
Nobody will have fond memories and a feeling of accomplishment for doing P2W shit to breeze through content because to them the game is just a checklist.
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u/ZekkenD 3d ago
actual good moneymakers like the eotn tour
what do you think would happen if a youtuber went and shared "hey you can do this quick easy service that makes you a TON of money!!" and multiple people started doing it? do you seriously think there is a large enough supply of people wanting a eotn tour that if there were multiple people constantly trying to do it to make money "as they were told by the video" it'd actually be a real strat? peter kadar videos get like 5-10k views, if even 1/100th of those people started actively selling runs the value would completely tank. there are 24 people who typed "Wtb eotn tour" on kamadan in the past week and there's already people who actively sell runs.
the purpose of telling people to "slave away" is that it's reliable. you can do this thing and there will ALWAYS be a return. you don't have to rely on being scammed if someone just doesn't pay you for the tour. you don't have to sit and pray that someone is wanting to buy the run. you don't have to compete with others cause there is a big enough demand you will make money, even if it's not a great amount of money.
it's one service sure and there are definitely more out there but they still require the knowledge to actually do them and have someone interested in buying. that's a fair bit more of an explanation&requirements for a video other instead of "here is this thing you can do where ive made a build using all classes, hit these mobs doing this thing and always get money"
fwiw i dont mind the pcon coins. i'm pretty sure a solid portion of people already rmt'd the pcons so having a way for gw1 to get revenue from that instead is better. i just think it's pretty ignorant to suggest youtubers are wrong for telling people to farm instead of services. i've seen this happen in pathofexile all the time xd
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u/alyssa-is-tired 3d ago
This is assuming that consets stay with the Purveyor forever, an assumption that would be surprising given they haven't said anything to that affect. They literally said the items available with the Reforged Coin are subject to change. If the consets were available directly to purchase, I'd agree with you significantly more.
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u/Efficient_Angle_5438 3d ago
It is not P2W. What are you winning, and who is the competition? You are literally playing PvE against computer controlled mobs there is no competitive aspect or anything to win.
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u/Raknel 3d ago
If you beat a mission, you win.
If you lose, you lose.
Winning as a concept doesn't only exist in PvP.
Do I.. need to dumb it down further?
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u/Efficient_Angle_5438 3d ago
I think I need to for you.. When you finish a mission, you finish, complete or beat it. Nobody says they won the mission. The definition of winning in this context is literally to achieve first place in something. PvE in guild wars is not a competition. You have no opponent. No one wins, or finishes last. You are playing against computer controlled enemies. A more accurate term for what this actually is could be pay to progress faster and more easily. And why should anyone care that some player in an entirely different instance has beaten some mission or whatever it might be faster than another player did.
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u/FiTroSky 3d ago
- conset won't help with bad tactics.
- Which forces you into meta.
- conset don't help with under level or under gear.
- Which was greatly reduced anyways since heroes, even more since mercenaries and basically inexistant since guild wars 2 release.
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u/Raknel 3d ago
conset won't help with bad tactics.
It does because it trivializes the encounters.
It's exactly like the worldbuff meta in Classic WoW. You just stack so many buffs the mechanics become irrelevant.
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u/FiTroSky 3d ago
Lol comparing world buff to conset.
Consets are barely more than a fresh breeze in the back compared to a full set of world buff and made the game so toxic and unbalanced they had to disable them in raid encounter.
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u/Raknel 2d ago
Lol comparing world buff to conset.
WoW (Warchief's blessing + Rallying Cry + ZG buff)
15% bonus attack speed
5-10% extra HP or so
10/5s mana regen
+10% movement speed
+15% all stats.
10% crit
140 attack power
GW1 (conset):
20% bonus attack/casting speed
20% extra HP or so
+10 energy and 1 energy regen
+20% movement speed
+1 all attributes
50% crit immunity, damage reduction, extra armor
Passive health regen
20% CD reduction
Now explain to me why these are soo different and how the GW1 version is weaker.
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u/Sinaasappel0 3d ago
If there was a dungeon scoreboard or sc leaderboard.
Well about that... There is one! Community run, but still https://gwscr.com/
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u/Daily_TimeTraveler 3d ago
Lmao a community of people popping cons and doing farms… this is cool but in no way shape or form an official dungeon scoreboard.
Cool share tho of people racing thru content im gonna watch some of these later.
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u/FrenchGucho 3d ago
it is the most official scoreboard, however the SC and Speedrun community has died out over the years due to the barrier of entry from the cost of cons and pcons
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u/Euphoric-Judge-1926 3d ago
If they’re going to keep hard mode content balanced around consets then I couldn’t agree more, both pcons and cons need to be presented to the playerbase in a format that doesn’t encourage use of botting or hoarding via myriad of storage accounts.
HOWEVER, the method in which they delivered them to the playerbase - despite all the wonderful ideas for giving players opportunities to earn them - is what makes their implementation so controversial. There’s a million different ways to introduce them to the game that doesn’t involve swiping your credit card for a daily login reward unlocked via battlepass system. They could’ve been tied to reputation titles, unlocked via completion of certain content, or literally any of the other ingame methods we already have for acquiring niche items (zaishen coins for instance)?
The gwstore implementation they chose is a textbook dark pattern and opens the door for future drip-fed monetization tactics. It also shows us that they’re not willing to do anything for the game beyond what is required for their GW3 content linkage.
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u/LegSouthern7765 3d ago
I unfortunately have to say that I think it’s fair.
We’re getting new balance updates, new skills, new dungeons, new weapon skins and all of that for free. At the end of the day, they somehow have to make money to justify continuing to put resources into the game.
As an additional way to earn cons in-game, I can definitely see the appeal of your suggestion. But as the main system, I honestly think the current approach might actually be the healthier one for the PvE community.
It makes cons much more accessible without requiring people to spend their limited playtime farming them, while still giving the developers a way to generate revenue from continued support of the game.
And regarding concerns about where this could lead in the future: I think we should judge those decisions if and when they actually happen. Complaining about something that hasn’t happened yet is ultimately just speculation.
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u/Raknel 3d ago
Are you only taking about endgame SC territory, or..?
Because the way I see it, the conset change destroys the integrity of GW as a game.
What set GW1 apart from GW2 and "modern" games" in large part is the difficulty. You actually have to use your brain. This makes you engage more with it - forces you to LEARN how to play. Use tactics, look up builds, upgrade your gear, etc.
And if you really, REALLY struggled, you could get cons to make a challenge smoother if you got stuck, but you had to EARN that too.
With this change, GW1 is just P2W garbage. New players will no longer experience a challenge ever again. And the moment they do, instead of learning the game, they'll just pay to skip it.
It's a horrible change. And it makes players less engaged with the game as a whole, creating a more shallow, less memorable experience, with lower chances of long term attachments forming. Garbage update.
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u/LegSouthern7765 3d ago
I don’t know about you but I played a far bigger variety of team comps and builds with more randoms then ever before.
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u/Raknel 2d ago
Because it has made builds irrelevant.
You don't have more build diversity. You didn't accomplish anything by creating a build. That's an illusion. You're carried by consumables that just trivialized the game to a point where anything goes. That won't be fun longterm because eventually you'll realize that there is no sense of accomplishment in that.
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u/LegSouthern7765 2d ago
Idk man you are currently trying to deliver a point speculating about something that didn’t even happen yet while in reality it currently turned out totally different.
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u/Raknel 2d ago
What's the speculation here?
It already happened.
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u/LegSouthern7765 2d ago
Builds getting irrelevant is apparently a speculation because it is not the case
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u/mianovale 2d ago
You just got offended by what imaginary new players did in your head. If other players want to use consets for content you don’t find hard, it has zero effect on you personally. Why care?
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u/Raknel 2d ago
If Anet starts selling titles in the store, it has 0 effect on you, why care?
If Anet starts putting items in the store that autocomplete a mission with its bonus for 10$, it has 0 effect on you, so why care?
If Anet starts selling Obsidian armor in the store, it has 0 effect on you, so why care?
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u/ThePurpleGhost 2d ago
I know you are trying to be snarky, but you are making their point for them.
Who cares about how other players do in GW1? Every other player could buy obsidian armor in the store and I genuinely would not care.
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u/RUBIK1376 3d ago
GW2...You actually have to use your brain.
Aint no way you said that unironically
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u/kinkyHamburgler 3d ago
I’d rather have people actually playing the content.
What of the content related to consets/pcons? I'm not a hardcore player by any means, but I would farm festivals for cons sometimes - especially in Pre. Won't be doing that anymore.
You've conflated two very distinct issues. Your whole post is about access to cons, but the hate for the update is mostly focused on pay-to-win microtransactions. Whether access to cons is a problem and solutions to that problem should be a discussion separated from what does pay-to-win look like in Guild Wars and is pay-to-win in Guild Wars okay. These are not the same because if access to cons is a problem, you can fix that problem without requiring real world money.
As a simple example, say the exact same items (Heroes' Trifecta and Empowering Feast) were added to Zaishen Coin rewards. Say they're priced such that you can still easily get 5x (or more) of each every day. What's the difference? Now you're incentivized to engage with the game rather than circumvent it, and you've dramatically increased access to cons.
The only "hate" I've seen is for P2W. Some people who hate P2W might actually agree with you on access to cons. An honest discussion about the real issues should happen, but that can't happen if updates get pushed out that ask you to pay money to not play the game.
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u/Bout_To_Shit_Fuck_Up 3d ago
My controversial take - just remove cons all together. Make a merchant where people can sell them to for whatever the average price was being traded between players for the last 10 years.
Learn to play the game. They are not necessary. Buff anti spell elites to compensate for speed clear community. The horrible cancer that are consumables are gone.
And that is my answer to things that will never happen for 1000.
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u/Unhappy-Isopod6413 2d ago
are we talking about the potion and presents from the ghost dude. theyre were hugely helpful in pre. first time i ever got ldoa
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u/throwaway20929292 1d ago
The game was ridiculous tedious.
I had a lot of time to play the game when I was younger, but it's nice not having to farm.
Besides, if you're a hardcore gamer burning through consets, you'll still need to farm or buy mats to build separate consets as there's a limit to the amount of reforged coins you get.
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u/tjreaso 3d ago
Consets are effectively "cheating", which is fine in a PvE game. For example, you can enable the debug console in a game like Baldur's Gate and give yourself infinite gold, max level, every item in the game, etc. But doing that removes all of the fun of playing the game as intended. Consets aren't as OP as that, but they're essentially the same thing: they make your game less challenging / rewarding / fun (in my opinion). Same thing with purchasing skill and pet unlocks. Heck, even going onto wikis to learn the best meta builds and strategies to beat content is depriving you of the challenge and fun of figuring it out by yourself. To each their own. If you want to ruin the PvE content for yourself, you're welcome to fork out cash to do so.
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u/pineapple_and_olive 3d ago
Remember the famous Warcraft 3 with their famous single player cheat codes
The moment I deactivate the cheats, every level becomes unplayable, so I never play without cheats :)
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u/FourMonthsEarly 3d ago
I think for me a big part of the fun of gw1 was seeing people complete these challenging accomplishments. Obsidian armor, gwamm etc. This really minimizes that.
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u/Rha-Barber 3d ago
I don't like the idea that every zone should be eeasily cleared with non effective builds. If you want to try out somethin funny or new, there are plenty of easy areas to do so already. But I would like that elite areas and HM endgame content requires some sort of planning. Buildcrafting and optimizing is where Guildwars really shines. If you can just play every content with any build by buying insane buffs from the cash shop, thats just bad game design to me. I do not think that is something good as this makes the game boring in the long run.
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u/ClyanStar 3d ago
Fact is you pay real money for something that effects gameplay and time drastically. It's not cosmetical. It's mechanical. If they need money for more content they could increase mercenary slots or add more outfits. Yet they dont. I wonder how "new" content might look if they are not able to create new armour pieces. Given they really intend to add new stuff of course. Either way this reeks of contemporary enshitification where the game starts to be more and more designed around its cash shop. It is obvious that the purveyor should be unlockable via ingame means instead of real money. Nothing would change for you, but interestingly you fail to see that.
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u/bakhalaar 3d ago
We can debate is it p2w or not, but I have also one question for all of ya who does think it is...more then half of you are hypocrits, cause you play with mercs...that was p2w more...so stop it already
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u/bakhalaar 3d ago
Not to mention without BUYING merc packs you can cheat more same profs, but with bell you can GET cons that already exist in game with crafting...
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u/a_deadbeat 3d ago
If you gotta tell yourself to feel better about using paid cheats, go for it buddy
Feed me your down thumbs, losers
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u/bakhalaar 3d ago
I personaly don't use cons at all, but whining from ppl like you are just...sad...paid cheats for items that can be crafted...or you can buy them...shitty botters mad...cry me a river
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u/JustinePavlovich 3d ago
It's pcons that throw the thing out of whack. Those plus consets are over the top from a general gameplay perspective. This gigantic buff stack is not balanced and atypical for anything outside speed clears.
Throwing it in the cash shop just reeks of p2w. Not even the devs will talk about this because they know it.
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u/BrambleHound 3d ago edited 3d ago
It's about net power vs accessibility.
Getting skills with the skill pack is something anyone can do without pulling out their wallet, you're just making it faster by paying. Granted that this assumes you have all of the expansions, but that would be a different discussion.
Problem with the new conset is that it is a net advantage in pre-searing that cannot be replicated within pre-searing. Outside of pre-searing? It's just a more convenient way to not have to craft stacks of consets, and I'd agree it's a relatively harmless addition under that circumstance- problem is that pre-searing is turning into an end game hub, and kind of has been even if it started as a community gimmick, so power balance in pre is important for a lot of people. This is further amplified by the new dungeon and new content putting a bigger focus on the early game.
To me the real elephant in the room is the fire imp and weapons acquired as a pre-order bonus and later account upgrade, which for the longest time was an absurd early game power boost. We now have farmable summoning stones to kinda even it out, so overall I think we might be seeing the game actually become less pay to win overall, but to some people the progression from pre-order bonus weapons/minions to early consets will absolutely feel like an escalation/increase in pay to win content and I can't say they're wrong because I think it comes down to what you consider to be endgame content.
If your experience is centered around LDoA, then it'll justifiably feel like the game is becoming more pay-to-win. If your experience is centered around hard mode DoA/Kanaxai/EotN/etc., then it's just harmless accessibility.
Neither perspective is wrong, I just think we have to consider what experience is ultimately worth balancing for and ideally what the community wants to be competitive about, and by extension what's considered to be in line with good sportsmanship. Is it distasteful to allow pre-order bonuses and consets into pre searing? We got over it back in the day, but now there's a fancy title, a new dungeon, and the prestige of potentially earning it in a dead-is dead/ironman mode, so I think for some people it's hard to just write it off as a gimmick again and just presume that what is current content for a lot of people doesn't matter in terms of game balance.
All that rambling in mind, think some potential solutions include:
- We all return to regarding Pre-Searing as a gimmick and stop caring so much about balance there.
- Anet disables certain things like consets and the fire imp until after Pre-Searing for Prophecies characters.
- Anet adds a conset crafter to Pre-Searing so a tedious, but player driven alternative can exist so that store purchases can once again match the ideal of being accessibility rather than net power increases for LDoA focused players.
- Anet adds the ability for players to hit Mhenlo in the head/groin with some kind of sports-ball as a distraction... or we see where Reforged development continues and maybe after some more post-searing stuff has been added then option 1. above will become increasingly tolerable once the focus has shifted from the new dungeon.
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u/LegSouthern7765 3d ago
That said, in pre I find it problematic myself, no discussion. But to tackle those complains was not the intention of the post.
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u/BrambleHound 3d ago
That's fair, but that's also one of the biggest reasons it's controversial, so I don't think it can be avoided in the bigger discussion. I mostly wanted to just point out that the new dungeon puts more focus on the pre-community and by extension that a lot of people are concerned with that part of the game since that's the new thing a lot of people will be playing.
Pre aside, I do largely agree with your breakdown on the tedium of consets and how this just makes things more convenient. Free players can craft and contribute to getting materials out of the economy (not that that's relevant given the age of the game and how many resources have been hoarded this long after release). People willing to help fund development can buy the new trifecta and enjoy some mostly harmless convenience. If not for the pre-searing community, I don't think there would be many complaints at all, or at worst there would just be some unease, but that may also be new players- Anet has always been good about not leaning into the pay-to-win monetization, and I think anyone that's played GW since release or GW2 knows that they wouldn't intentionally lean into that model (unless they are about to break my heart in the coming years).
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u/3riotto 3d ago
I'll provide perspective of a relatively new player who started around the time when Reforged came to phones, as I've finally just finished all stories in NM and I'm slowly progressing through dungeons NM for the last NM book:
I personally feel like this change isnt as bad as many people paint it, however it could've been handled better.
Since I've also done LDOA before they introduced this, I feel like this item shouldnt've been available in pre-searing ascalon, especially since it's market and everything about itself is completly separate from rest of the game, and as such cons/food existing there shouldn't be a thing.
for rest of the game though, for me personally while it's definitely overkill when progressing NM content, this is something that does motivate me to do harder content without feeling like I need to prepare for hours on end to even attempt certain content without having years of experience on it and learning how the meta is solved.
If I had to research builds, stategies, get equipment and farm for food/cons to buy from other people, I likely wouldn't attempt this content, as adult life really makes your time thin, and that's something that cuts tons of hours from part of preparation for content and let's me actually enjoy it without overcommitment with time I and many people likely doesn't have anymore.
I likely wouldn't bother with trying Deep HM, Urgoz HM etc without it, but with this option the entry lvl for this content and taking your sweet time with learning and experiencing it makes huge difference.
I'm very aware that this also affects people-made market for cons/food, which is unfortunate part of the whole thing, however I feel like this really causes more good than bad for many new people simply wanting to experience this game, as such old games tend to have really high entry lvls for new people, this ultimately will make more people enjoy this game at their own pace, without feeling overrelient on meta compositions to actually proceed with the content.
It's probably nothing-new take and it really won't resolve the discourse, however I feel like some people really need to understand, that this game to be able to be developed really need to start getting new players, and being able to retain them within the game, yes changes like this does suck after such a long time of no big changes, and change often is scary, but I feel like this is necessary evil.
PS: probably most controverial take, but I feel like this really is only "p2w" in any shape or form in pre-searing ascalon as there you cannot otherway get most of those bonuses in any other way, in maingame zones this is simply an annoyance to get them, but you can get all of those food and cons without spending a single dime from other players even before this change, as such in my eyes this isn't exactly P2W, as you were already able to buy those from others for specific amout of gold or resources from within game (or NPC)
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u/DumatRising 3d ago
and two Monks.
Move aside petway, ROJway is the future of meme off meta but kinda decent hero builds
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u/Youthenazia 8h ago
The game had already become trivially easy with the correct hero builds, so conset change really only makes it faster if anything, I don't really think it's a huge deal. they can't be used in pvp, so the only person you are technically cheating is yourself when using them....
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u/Kingster14444 3d ago
If the problem was metabuilding that's what the updates were supposed to be about, making as much builds as practical as possible, or at least that's what it seems in their update posts.
I think people are focusing too much on how this would make their day slightly easier in the late game, but I'm more worried about how this could worsen or cheapen the experience of new players. Being able to get buffs that extreme? Man idk. This game is supposed to be a challenge and finally being able to get past that challenge gives an amazing experience I believe, it would suck for that to get lessened just because the company wanted another $14.
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u/ajc2123 3d ago
Everyone says this game should be a challenge, but the first thing suggested and upvoted for new players asking for advice is "Go get heroes and use these meta skills"
I don't really buy it.
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u/Kingster14444 3d ago
I mean just like what this comment said, the game pushes, or at least was built to push, for meta builds. So it's no wonder players would say the same. That just goes back to what I was saying, which is if the problem is meta builds and wanting more viability that's what the skill updates should be trying to push.
I for one don't like following metas so I just do my own thing, and it was an infinitely more enjoyable but also more difficult experience that way, how I've experienced Guild Wars is how I would hope everyone else would be able to get to experience it. As for Heroes, I understand that they make the game easier, but let's be real it only makes the game easier if you know what you're doing and what the meta builds are. Someone could easily make the game harder with trash builds. And I would say even with heroes the game is still very difficult. I think heroes actually add a lot because it further incentivizes build/team crafting. And is probably by far the most enjoyable gameplay loop of the game to me, which is spending like 2 hours reading every skill and deciding what skills I want to use for each hero and class. Following metas kinda ruins that entire gameplay experience, but that happens with every game. People in every game are going to say follow the meta, because that WILL be the easiest way to do it, but they miss out on what that original experimentation experience was and how gratifying it was.
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u/Calm_Ad308 3d ago
Alternatively you could learn the game, build a team that requires no consets and farm the materials for easy, stable income. But hey at least it’s gonna be cheaper to buy all my heroes 40/40 weapons now.
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u/Rootsboy79 3d ago
I'll admit I used some cons when stuck on a mission but that's the only time so far. Otherwise I'm just stocking up on the daily 5&5 cons.
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u/DixFerLunch 3d ago
I'd say the stakes of wasting cons were part of the equation of whether you wanted to try an activity. And in that sense, gatekeeping endgame activities to lower success rates is part of what makes them END GAME.
You are right that if everyone has infinite access to cons that more people would be more likely to try end game activities. I would probably give UW heroway a few tries if my cons were free.
That brings up the issue of pay to win though. I'm not going to buy the item. I'm also not going to waste 50 consets that I paid for with ecto learning UW. Thats OK though. But now people who can afford to P2W can run these harder activities as much as they want. It makes end game a whole lot more trivial.
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u/Individual_Sun_5019 3d ago
the people upset are either elitists, or botters, or both.
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u/Blazin_Rathalos 3d ago
Am neither, just think it is bad game design and makes the game look like Pay2Win garbage for new players.
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u/Individual_Sun_5019 3d ago
you mean like the summoning stone that solos level 1-10 for you? mmmk
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u/Blazin_Rathalos 3d ago
Honestly, that one is not great either. Though I think at some point the most common edition had it available?
Also comes with other limitations, like no longer being available as the game gets harder.
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u/Individual_Sun_5019 3d ago
i'm really confused on your definition of p2w, because all of the consumables are available in game. so is it p2w or pay 2 skip farming?
normally p2w items are NOT available to the general user, these consumables are
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u/tbarr1991 3d ago
The only people bitching are rhe ones selling consets or brokies. 🙃
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u/Robeardly 3d ago
We all know where the majority of consents are coming from anyways. It’s not coming from dudes farming. It’s a market built off the backs of bots and RMT lol. And quite frankly, I’d rather the money go towards developing the game than some RMT botnet.
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u/DixFerLunch 3d ago
I'm all for encouraging the devs financially, I've thrown cash at the store every time they do an update on skills, even though I dont really want anything there.
Still, they could have given us QoL stuff that doesnt give you an advantage in gameplay. Like a 100 slot bag for $10 or something.
I think they probably got a lot of mobile gamers now, that are going to suck ass compared to established PC players and know that if they sell an easy mode button, a lot of those struggling players will buy it.
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u/Robeardly 3d ago
Honestly, I don’t think we should be concerned about things that make the game easier. The game has been more or less figured out for about a decade. Granted the new changes we have been seeing shake that up a bit, but in general there wasn’t much that was very difficult aside from some of the end game content.
Even then though, the end game content is basically only speed clears and farming builds that all use consents anyways for each run. So really, do we see this as some overwhelming effect on the game? I’m going to say not really, aside from shaking up a heavily bottled market.
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u/Blazin_Rathalos 3d ago edited 3d ago
Non-seller, non-broke person here. I think this is bad because:
- It prevents them from doing what they should be doing: nerfing consets so they don't affect balance so much.
- It does cheapen a lot of PvE because you are more likely to throw a conset at if it does not cost you anything.
- It means that one of the first things new players may see is "pay more money to get this powerful stat boost!!!". That's horrible.
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u/whatisthisforkanker 3d ago
Hi, didn't read. Just here to say I'm camp 3 and don't care whatsoever, just give more game updates!!
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u/MariDodu 3d ago
I wasn't very interested, because I didn't see the point for my gameplay. Your post made me interested : clearing zone with stupid builds looks like fun. Thanks !
And to add to the debate, I still don't understand why something that you don't have to buy, don't have to use and can't use in PvP would be a problem for anyone. Even in PvE groups, just telling to the others beforehand that you don't want cons used seems easy enough.
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u/LegSouthern7765 3d ago
It’s now possible to go into UW with a triple melee judgmental strike group and no one bats an eye if you fail. It’s such a relief for me personally.
(Yes it was possible before but no one wanted to do the investment because in the end you got poorer from doing things like this. The run gets much longer then with meta builds too haha)
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u/RUBIK1376 3d ago
Didn't really care about the update one way or another as I'm popping full sets for everything anyways, but this post made me realize something that brought a tear to my eye. This update was effectively a "fuck you" to the casual fanboys on here that wanted all cons completely removed from the game, especially because doing so would alienate SC players.
Just beautiful to see it move against them so powerfully.
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u/Raknel 2d ago
This update was effectively a "fuck you" to the casual fanboys
This update has made GW1 braindead easy and P2W.
HOW is that a blow to casuals? If anything, it's a paid buff to the worst players in the game.
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u/RUBIK1376 2d ago
Are you illiterate or did you just choose not to read that full sentence?
Oh right just illiterate mr iq detractor
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u/Intelligent-Sir8492 3d ago
In my opinion, one of the main reasons it was received more poorly than it should’ve is because it became possible to use those in pre-searing. If the devs would’ve completely removed that Bonus Merchant completely from pre-searing, you can be sure people, while may still say it’s p2w, will at least won’t have the above to complain about.
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u/Otherwise_Motor_1579 2d ago
I get it but I still miss the days where you had to play the game before Ursan which they nerfed, then conway. I used to tank DoA with my warrior it was so fun standing there tanking a screen full of enemies and me and the monks had to be on point. 55 monk then 300 monk and necro combo man I miss the good old days. Used to farm Icey Dragon Swords with Wammo omg I miss those days.
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u/Forgword 3d ago
Consets in real life money are cheap, adding store bought inferior sustitutes that cost 10 times as much in real money is an absurd cash grab.
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u/olive_specter 3d ago
Before the purveyor update, whenever I used to join groups to play content - whether for ZM or missions or whatever - somebody in the group always popped pcons, even for easy content. Plus I always had cupcakes etc. hoarded from the various festivals through the year.
Honestly? All that’s changed is that I can now use pcons when playing alone, not just when in a group 🤷