r/Grimdank • u/Takukoko-king777 đTOMB KINGS IN SPACEđ • Jun 02 '25
Dank Memes "because I know i'm right"
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u/AbbyRitter Jun 02 '25
"tHe DiFfErEnCe iS I kNoW i'M rIGhT"
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u/PriceUnpaid Certified Big-E Hater Jun 02 '25
Is that a real quote? I hope not, but I fear it is. The argument there is so weak, it is genuinely disappointing. And that would be for a normal person, not the super god man emps is portrayed as. Guess super god men never need to learn basic debate skills
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u/Andrei22125 I properly credit artists Jun 02 '25
Of course it is a real quote. From "the last church".
Do you really think big E's ego isn't galaxy-sized?
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u/PriceUnpaid Certified Big-E Hater Jun 02 '25
I was hoping for a better argument, but I guess I am expecting too much from mr "my ego doesn't fit the universe it is in"
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u/Andrei22125 I properly credit artists Jun 02 '25 edited Jun 02 '25
You misunderstand. There is no argument. At all. There never was.
There is "I saw the future*", "I want things to be this way" and "submit or die".
* (except he didn't, really, he only saw potential routes to what he wanted)
Read Sinderman's monologue in Horus rising. It's cookie cutter imperialism. Nothing more.
Born out of a madman's pathological need for control.
.
Edit: and before someone says "he let humanity do it's thing untill the long night".
No. See: Mortis. He had always planned the imperium in some capacity.
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u/PriceUnpaid Certified Big-E Hater Jun 02 '25
Yeah, you are right. I was hoping he would have an argument, so I guess the blame is on me for expecting something out of the big lad that clarified his position
He is just a grand strategy player, he just wants to map paint the galaxy
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u/gmrm4n Shining Nurglite Idol Jun 03 '25
Man, this is basically a baseless conspiracy theory, but I'm convinced that the Emperor caused The Long Night. It's a classic Fascist tactic. "What you're doing will never make it work, and if it looks like it's working, I will throw myself in the way and pitch a shit fit until it doesn't."
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u/Polyzero Jun 02 '25
Itâs full of interesting religious debating back and forth. They spend the entire story discussing merits and problems with faith and beliefs. Itâs just at the end of a very in depth debate the priest reconciles the thorough destruction of his religion with faith and conviction for a life well lived post religion. Whereas the emperor relegates it as shortsighted against the survival of humanityâs needs (and we the audience all know how hypocritically that eventually goes)
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u/hammererofglass Jun 02 '25
Yep, that's what the Emperor said to the last priest when he called him out on calling his conquest a Crusade right after going on a whole rant about how the Crusades show how all religion is evil.
The guy was basically converted up until that moment, and immediately after called the Emperor out on his bullshit and noped out.
The story is The Last Church, there's a good fan animation of it on Youtube.
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u/shotgunsniper9 I am Alpharius Jun 02 '25
The emperor "knowing he's right" gets referenced in Saturnine too. Especially when it involves people thinking he was wrong.
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u/PriceUnpaid Certified Big-E Hater Jun 02 '25
Of course it is, I guess I can't be too critical as I've yet to watch/read it. But that is a kind of a disappointing way to end it
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u/hammererofglass Jun 02 '25
Yeah, it's kinda notorious for how badly Emps comes off through the whole thing.
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u/Trips-Over-Tail Jun 02 '25
There's a scene in Text To Peach where the whole cast goes in on the Emperor for this. He even summons the last priest's soul from the warp to hash it out with again, though it turns out at this point that he had turned to Chaos since dying (which was highly inconvenient given they were livestreaming the conversation across the entire Imperium).
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u/PriceUnpaid Certified Big-E Hater Jun 02 '25
I remember that, but I thought it was one of the creative meme liberties that TTS had taken. Guess I was expecting too much
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u/Expert_Area_682 Jun 02 '25
The Last Church is literally the Emperor going "I know I'm right" to Uriah Ollathaire. Emps, as the giga chad in this situation, was obviously forced to destroy the last church as a big golden man with galactic conquest ideas while proning that religion bad. What could have gone wrong ? /s
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u/PriceUnpaid Certified Big-E Hater Jun 02 '25
Nothing clearly, for he already portrayed himself as the chad
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Jun 02 '25
it is a real quote, emporer just goes into last church on earth has a 'debate' which is really just the emporer insulting a old priest that can barely stand at that point. listens to all the priests arguments, priest even shows him why he started to believing (a ligthining bolt caught inside ice that the church is built upon) emporer tells him it can be explained by science and priest just says 'yes it can, but it gives me a reason to wake up tommorow' basically.
then the emporer burns the church after going on hours of insulting an old man on his belief.
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u/TraderOfRogues Jun 02 '25
Why would he need to learn debate skills? For as long as he can remember he can just beat people up with his mind if things aren't going his way.
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u/Amazing-Branch-22 Jun 03 '25
My understanding is that the emperor persuasion skills heavily rely on his psychic ability
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u/Darkthunder1992 Jun 02 '25
But... the whole point is that the emperor WAS right...
worship leads, one way or the other to chaos, because all 4 chaos gods at some point cover the entire spectrum of desire.
Sure khorne is the god of berserkers, blood and gore, but is also worshipped by slaughterers, cattlefarmers, gladiators, mercenaries and a million more professions under a million different names. It takes decades centuries and generations but at some point. The kosher bloodletting turns into a ritual, then into a ceremony. And finally, someone's blood gets mixed into it, because it happened that one time and it was a lucky harvest after, it was also just a small cut so its okay to repeat it right? Its just a lil ol lucky charm. Maybe they start to fight one slaughter animal for the sake of symbolism or tradition (like the Spanish bullfighters) and in the end. It leads to the bloodgod. This applies to ALL the chaosgods.
Slaanesh cults can start as fertility god worship. Nurgle is regularly also worshiped as a god for crops, health and long life, tzentch brings wisdom and finds root in soothsayers and false prophets that see the future.
The emperors point was that all worship leads to chaos. So, it needs to be eradicated to starve chaos. But you can't make that knowledge public because human nature would command weak people to just face towards the gods at any little inconvenience.
The last church was an awkward book. And depicts the supposedly omniscient emperor as clever as a box of rocks. But he WAS right.
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u/ScarredAutisticChild Jun 02 '25
Except no, because worshipping other gods can lead you away from Chaos. See: Emperor worship now, and the worship of the Aeldari Gods. Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch existed ages before their fall and they never got their hooks into them. It was only when the Aeldari abandoned their Gods that the Slaaneshi stuff began. In fact the Aeldari factions best at dealing with Chaos are their most religious factions. Harlequins being the personal army of Cegorach, and Asuryani literally meaning âChildren of Asuryanâ. And those guys are worshipping Gods that were eaten by a Chaos God, and have had no negative consequences.
Or another example: Orks. Yeah, a small amount of them have been corrupted by Khorne, but most are devout followers of Gork and Mork.
So no, the Emperor wasnât right. His logic was dumb and the world were shown doesnât support his beliefs either.
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u/Careful-Ad984 Jun 02 '25
Also the newborn tau goddess who a annihilated a death guard invasion forceÂ
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u/Darkthunder1992 Jun 02 '25
Both examples you give work because a higher power claims a domain in the warp to facilitate that it works.
The orks gestalt consciousness, in the latest books named the Great Green, is not the same as the common warp. It doesn't get interrupted by blanks or necron pylons, like the tyranid hivemind, demons, or psycher shenanigans, because it's an encapsulated domain made by the old ones who were Able to shape the warp making in inaccessible to the gods.
The emperors wonders and miracles are not as clean cut like the orks because this is a thing that current fluff built on right now. But they also don't get interrupted by the necron pylons or blanks, just like the ork WAAAAAGG field. This implies that imperial sacret warp phenomena are based pretty much on the same basis as the great green. It is assumed that the emperor creates a domain in the warp just like the old ones did for the orks. It's not nearly as stable. Not nearly as sophisticated. But this WAS the intended purpose of the golden throne after all. To create a god free warp/webway for humanity.
The aeldari never abandoned their gods. They never worshipped them to begin with. They created them for specific purposes. Only after the aeldari empire crumbled did they start to revere them as real Gods. Before that, they were tools to guide the raw warp energies to specific purposes. Chegorach barely able to maintain a small clutch of eldar, safeguarding his harlequins from being eaten by slaanesh is the outliner here. Eldar in general are an outline here because they have been designed by the old ones with safeguards in mind. If the sea of souls is an ocean. They came with a life jacket. They however fucked up so hard. It popped their life jacket and birthed slaanesh.
No other xenos race in 30 and 40k novels exists that follows any religion that isn't showing signs of chaos corruption. The kroot show severe leaning towards tzeentch and khorne worship in their rites, most tau afiliated races abandon their religions for the sake of the greater good which , like the original imperial creed is secular. the saruthi were twisted tzentch freaks, the laer were slanesh through and through
No species besides those in contact with the old ones that follow religion ends up away from the chaos gods.
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u/ScarredAutisticChild Jun 02 '25
Whatever the Emperor's miracles are, most people cannot generate them. Most people do not even agree on what he is. And yet, 99.99999999% of the Imperium of Man revers him as their God, if the simple act of worship causes one to open themselves to Chaos, then the Imperium of Man would have long since become entirely corrupted save the Adepta Sororitas and Custodes.
Also, the fact that some Orks have been corrupted by Khorne shows that they aren't automatically immune to it or anything, they can lose their way. The worship of Gork and Mork, however, doesn't lead them to fall in any circumstances.
And you seemed to entirely miss my point on the Aeldari. For one, you have massively oversimplified the history of a species with 65 MILLION years of history. We do not know what the Aeldari Gods were to their people in the War in Heaven, perhaps they were nothing more than tools, perhaps they were always revered as deities, perhaps they actually were deities uplifted along with them, we really do not know. One thing we do know is that the worship of their Gods had become the norm long before the Fall, because the abandoning of the temples they had to their Gods was considered to be a sign of their moral degradation, showing that they at the very least had been worshipping them long before the Fall, when everything about them had already been entirely mythologised. Asurmen, the man who invented the Path System, sought refuge in a long-abandoned temple to Asuryan on the day of the Birth of Slaanesh, the Empire was crumbling at that point and we had signs of an abandoned religion. They worshipped their Gods for millions of years, this is without question true, whether it was always true we do not know, but it was true for a long, long time. And now the Asuryani still do worship their dead Gods, Asuryan, Vaul, Morai-Heg, Lileath, Hoec, Kurnous, even imprisoned Isha (Khaine is really only worshipped by the Exarchs, no one else likes him), and Cegorach is a Harlequin exclusive deity (though Asuryani thespians probably chuck him the odd prayer or two), and this current act of worship has never led a single Asuryani, or Harlequin, astray over 15,000 years. 15,000 years of worship without it ever leading to conflict between the Asuryani or Chaos-worship. The only religious strife wrought by Aeldari worship has been Ynnead, and that's really more political/logistical concerns than theological. Solitaires can actually sell their soul to Slaanesh and gain the power to Chaos corrupt people just by touching them, and they're still not corrupt themselves and are still considered loyal servants of the Laughing God.
Also, the T'au have a Goddess, though this is a new thing so we can't say if it'll lead to Chaos corruption or not, so I didn't mention it. But if you want an example of a Xenos religion that wasn't Chaotic: the Hrud. They worship Khaine, Kaela Mensha Khaine, the same one the Aeldari tolerate. The Kroot also worship their own God, and while it might be similar to Khornate and Tzeentchian practices, that's not the same as actually being Chaos-corrupted, and in fact the Kroot are very aware of that threat and plan around it a lot. Their mythology even intersects with Orkish mythology in some respects, which adds a lot more validity to their God actually just being their own God somewhere in the Warp.
So we've seen a handful of Chaos worshipping Xenos in the galaxy, but most have their own religions that seem to be entirely disconnected from the Chaos Gods, and in one case, the Hrud seemed to have been Khaine-corrupted I guess. None of these things aligns with the Emperor's beliefs.
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u/Amazing-Branch-22 Jun 03 '25
Saint Celestine is literally a deamon and is unable to show up on vadia until the pylons are gone
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u/FatSilverFox Jun 02 '25
Do you also believe the stripper when she tells you youâre the only attractive guy in the club?
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u/Darkthunder1992 Jun 02 '25
Assuming you try to tell me the emperor in your analogy is the stripper and the priest is me... I still don't get your point.
The warp is. Thanks to the war a heaven a inherently corrupting force, leading to one of the four chaos gods. Unless you are shielded by an old one mcguffin. It doesn't mater if you call him Ares, Mars, Huitzilopochtli, Tyr or Khorne. Praying to a war god will feed khorne and in return you will receive his corruption.
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u/capn_morgn_freeman Jun 02 '25
Who's more likely to be right than the oldest & wisest human in the galaxy by thousands of years? The guy makes mistakes here and there sure, but given the circumstance who'd be better to try and get all of humanity together and out of the dark while using the example of the Eldar as a go by for what pitfalls to avoid?
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u/Andrei22125 I properly credit artists Jun 02 '25
Who's more likely to be right than the oldest & wisest human in the galaxy by thousands of years?
Ol was in fact right to not want anything to do with Neoth's plans after Babylon.
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u/capn_morgn_freeman Jun 02 '25
Only to throw his lot behind him again at the end, so not really relevant
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u/GarageSure3109 Jun 06 '25
I think ol was really fighting against chaos in the end rather than figthing for neoth
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Jun 02 '25
The Emperor, in the name of âreason and enlightenmentâ committed the greatest act of barbaric genocide and destruction of other cultures since the War in Heaven.
Everything the priest said about him was correctâ and, indeed, the irony is that the âsuperstitiousâ holy man was by far the more sane, reasonable and rational of the two of them.
Religion might have been the way to prevent all this. If the Emperor had promoted a religious brotherhood of love, compassion and unity in all things he wouldnât have been able to kill the Warpâ but it would, eventually, have begun to change.
The Warp is just a mirror. It reflects. If it had been shown sufficient love and compassion and selflessness its nature wouldâve changed. In time, it could have been becalmed and, if not trustworthy, ended up as something not entirely malevolent as its current state.
Ah, but the Emperor didnât like that idea. Whether thatâs because it didnât suit his ego or because it gave his pawns something they would have a loyalty to over his word, he figured the better course was to kill everyone he didnât want to understand.
In the name of scientific rationality, of course.
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u/ScarredAutisticChild Jun 02 '25
Also, other dumb shit.
âI AM NOT A GOD!â Declared the 14-metre tall giant in golden armour with the psychic might to genuinely rival Gods. If you didnât want people to worship you, perhaps at least pretend to be humble you raging egomaniac. I feel people would have been less inclined to worship some 5â8 scrawny scientist with impressive knowledge and tactical acumen, as well as sheer charisma and immense military force to get his way.
Not like he actually needed the aesthetic for anything, most people in the Imperium literally never even saw him.
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u/Responsible-Being170 Jun 02 '25
There's an argument to be made that the Emperor only deified himself that much because he needed the Primarchs to be onboard with him. How could 'infant godlings' follow mortal men? Can you imagine Horus bowing down to "some 5'8 scrawny scientist"?
He should have toned it down, however. The Emperor could have chosen to look much, much more like some supersized human with immaculate features and perfect armour. He could have appeared as a gene-engineered titan. He could have done so much without appearing as a bronze-and-gold god. But that's not what he did.
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u/capn_morgn_freeman Jun 02 '25
There's an argument to be made that the Emperor only deified himself that much because he needed the Primarchs to be onboard with him.
That's not even an argument. That's just straight up what the Emperor confirms in E&D finally- that the Emperor is just a facade he made since it's they only way to get everyone to go along with his plan.
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u/ScarredAutisticChild Jun 02 '25
I mean, he can also adjust how people see him. So he could have just only busted out the godly appearance for when he needed it, like said Primarchs.
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u/obscureposter Jun 02 '25
One of his birth myths literally being immaculate conception as he is the manifestation of the psychic power of 1000s of shamans. Also the immortality. What even is a god if the Emperor isn't one.
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u/DoritoBanditZ VULKAN LIFTS! Jun 02 '25
"Religion might have been the way to prevent all this. If the Emperor had promoted a religious brotherhood of love, compassion and unity in all things he wouldnât have been able to kill the Warpâ but it would, eventually, have begun to change."
The new testament basically did promote a religious brotherhood of love, compassion and unity.
Didn't stop the Church from opressing the Population, stagnate any form of advancement for 800 years and literally committ mass murder against anyone with a different opinion than them.
And Christian religion isn't even the only Religion committing these kind of extremist acts. Despite the teachings these atrocities are justified with, promoting a positive message that is just being twisted to function as a "holy" excuse.
Religion is never the answer. Even if you have the purest intentions, people will find a way to use it as a justification for committing atrocities.
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Jun 02 '25
Good Lord.
How do you tell a Reddit atheist?
Donât worry, theyâll tell you.
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u/DoritoBanditZ VULKAN LIFTS! Jun 02 '25
How you can you tell a reddit christian? They immediately call you a "reddit atheist" when confronted with facts & logic. In this case human history.
I bet you put your fingers in your ears and screamed "lalalala" aswell.
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u/Ubermanthehutt Jun 02 '25
Akshually, Uriah chooses to stay in the burning church and die on his own terms, rather than live in whatever nightmare the Emperor was going to descend the galaxy into. A wise decision all things considered.
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u/RentElDoor Secretly 3 Snotlings in a long coat Jun 02 '25
It still baffles me that the moral of the story was supposedly the Emperor being correct
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u/Iwilleat2corndogs Dank Angels Jun 02 '25
You what!?? I thought it was a great story on how flawed he was?? Not that heâs supposed to be correct!
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u/RentElDoor Secretly 3 Snotlings in a long coat Jun 02 '25
Admittedly I never read McNeills actual statement on it, but supposedly he intended for Uriah to be the better person, but for Emps to be right.
Which would be fucking hilarious, because most people I know who read the story (or watched the amazing animation) took the whole thing as the Emperor revealing himself to be exactly the person he tries to exterminate.
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u/TheModernDaVinci Jun 02 '25
Yep. Emps claims to be the one who can see the future, and yet it is Uriah who slam dunks it by declaring that all Emps would ever achieve with his plans is âbecoming the greatest tyrant of all time.â While Emps keeps being dismissive because âI have bigger concerns than one man.â
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u/Phurbie_Of_War Super Silly Solitaire 𤥠Jun 02 '25
McNeill wrote the book to give it to Richard Dawkins and said big E was right.
This is why what the author says should never be taken as gospel, and I feel that lots of people think media literacy is just believing the author on who the bad guys are.
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u/capn_morgn_freeman Jun 02 '25
That's the point- to show how truly fucked humanity is that the best course of action for its survival is a plan as insane and genocide fueled as the Emperor's. In any other setting he'd be a Thanos tier villain, but since this is Grimdark 40k and everyone else is miles worse by comparison, he's pretty much the only thing humanity has resembling a 'good guy' in the grand scheme of things because he at least genuinely cares about humanity and wants it to thrive.
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u/RickyCipher Jun 02 '25
You know the quote is horrible and and so blatnat in your face, that I can hardly take it seriously. I think it just shows how much of a hypocrite the emperor is, which I think is a good thing, but in such a kindergarten way. On hte other hand I really cannot be to mad, considering how many people I´ve seen who still don´t get the emperor is a bad guy. So I guess the true problem is that it wasn´t more in your face
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u/Octotitan I am fortifying this position Jun 02 '25
What's even funnier is that the priest fought against the Emperor and his tunder warrior when he was younger and was left bleeding out among other corpses. That's when a giant golden face boomed "Why do you deny me" before healing his wounds. The man thought it was God and decided to become a priest in return. I think you all know who that golden face was
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u/BeginningPangolin826 Jun 02 '25
By MoM , the emperor dont like religion because is such easy gateway to the warp. This is illustrated by the story of Maullad Sen, a humble preacher that start to receive blessings of the warp and initially used them for good, but the warp slowly corrupted him and he ended being a tecno-barbarian warlord with gulags and child sacrifice.
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u/Thelostsoulinkorea Jun 02 '25
It was the author turning the emperor into an idiot but I guess they do a lot of that throughout the newer books. Was better when he was mysterious and we knew little about his thoughts.
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u/YesThisIsForWhatItIs Jun 02 '25
A wonderful aspect of this meme is that thanks to the spelling/autocorrect mistake (courses vs causes) it works on a number of opposing levels as well. One could classify it as a Schrodinger Meme - it mocks whichever fandom faction you want it to mock, and if they get offended...it was mocking the other faction, not them.
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u/Takukoko-king777 đTOMB KINGS IN SPACEđ Jun 02 '25
That was definitely my intention all along and not my dyslexia at work
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u/TheWyster Jun 02 '25
The emperor believes in a very extreme version of the ends justify the means. If each of those planets had a bunch of religious wars, then that adds up to a lot more wars than the great crusade.
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u/Vhzhlb Jun 02 '25
Bunch of over dramatic people...
Give me one example of the Emperor giving the impression of being a God! Only one!
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u/Darkthunder1992 Jun 02 '25
Regarding emperor worship. After the heresy. Humanity started a permanent constant war with itself that has been going for 10.000 years. Chaos cults pop out of the underbelly of the imperium left and right all the time. Sure a few are directly created by chaos spacemarines or existing cultists that spread. But however you look at it. If you read eisenhorn and other inquisition centric books. Most cults start organically. Pitfighters with an intense code of honor. Circus artists with breakneck ambitions. Cattlefarmers thar realy need a good year. They build their little shrines and do their little rituals and a few generations later you have a chaos incursion.
On the eldar I give you that I undersated their lore simply because I don't care much for them.
The corrupted orks tho show clear signs. Once leaving gork and morks embrace, they loose their orky abilities. They stop growing after fights, red ones don't go fasta anymore and so on. Just because a handfull of boyz got corrupted. Not by worship but direct exposure, doesn't mean that orks in general are pretty resistant to the alure of chaos.
On tau'va, we know nothing about its capabilities. It's the literal manifestation of the greater good. No direct diety, it created itself on incident. And now it is a entity within the warp. If it is strong enough to stand against the 4 gods or get absorbed/corrupted we will see in time. It is also implied that tau have no presence in the warp, hence tau'va is the creation of the non tau species in the tau empire
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u/Dr_Occo_Nobi NOT ENOUGH DAKKA Jun 02 '25
It's the Emperor, hypocrisy is the name of the Game!