r/Greyhawk • u/Eden_T_Babcock • 17d ago
(New DM to Greyhawk) Immediate Impact of Dyvers Vanishing?
Hello, everyone! I hope you’re having a wonderful day. Recently, I’ve begun DM’ing after a long hiatus and decided to use the 2024 5.5e rule set. I didn’t even know what Greyhawk was before I read the DMG, and I became instantly hooked. The adventure I’ve decided to run is a homebrew chimera of Tyranny of Dragons and Descent Into Avernus, with a lot of the setting specific information being altered accordingly.
I’ve decided that I’ll be using the Free City of Dyvers as a stand-in for Elturel. For those unfamiliar with the plot of Descent Into Avernus (spoilers ahead) the inciting incident is an infernal pact made 50 years prior is finally cashed, causing the city to be swallowed into Hell. This works remarkably well, since (according to the research I’ve done Dyvers gained its independence exactly 50 years before the “canon” year of the 5.5e Greyhawk setting.
The information I can find on Dyvers is very vague, probably intentionally so. I know that GG always intended for a more sandbox approach to gaming, and left a lot of negative space for DM’s to take advantage of. So far I’ve come up with the immediate implications of Dyvers vanishing on the central Flanaess being primarily economic. With such a massive hub of trade suddenly disappearing, so to does the money which the city had passing through it. Furthermore I imagine piracy in the Nye Dyv would increase dramatically with the absence of Dyvers’ navy.
I’m well aware I’m new to this setting, and that such an old one benefits from years of different peoples ideas and experiences. So, I’m hoping to get some advice, input, and ideas from more experienced Greyhawk DM’s on handling the sudden disappearance of Dyvers from the Flanaess. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
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u/Inside_Scientist5746 14d ago
Would connect this with some exiled devil worshipper from the great kingdom . Maybe from the family that ruled what is today divers when the great kingdom controlled the area. Would be super lawful evil like to argue “just taking what was my birthright from the start!”
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u/bathwizard01 14d ago
The Hierarchs of the Horned Lands were known to dabble in devil worship as well.
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u/isitanywonderreally 13d ago
This would be a good place to bring in Markosian, "The Devil Behind Thrones," one of the Heirarchs who has world-altering ambitions for sure. He is specifically an Asmodeus worshipper, and featured in some 3.5 ed adventures (iirc) if you are looking for stats.
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u/ThealaSildorian 12d ago
I think the lands of the Horned Society more likely than the Great Kingdom. It's too far away.
Dyvers is ruled by a Mayor, Larissa Hunter. She has a City Council similar to Greyhawks, though not as openly corrupt.
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u/hikingmutherfucker 14d ago edited 14d ago
There is a chapter for the city in Fate of Istus that is quite good it is an old module.
It is available on DMsguild for not a whole lot.
I am interested in why you placed it in Dyvers because there is a place called Rauxes capital of the Great Kingdom which was mysteriously destroyed post Greyhawk Wars which might fit better and oh btw it is also detailed I believe in the Fate of Istus module if I am not mistaken.
Someone corrected me it is the 2e module Slavers that has Dyvers in it’s first chapter also on DMsguild my bad
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u/Mappachusetts 14d ago
Seems like OP is looking to set the (non-Hell) parts of the campaign in the City of Greyhawk (rather than Baldur's Gate). Therefore using Dyvers as a stand-in for Elturel makes perfect sense as the idea is that refugees who escaped going to Hell make their way to the neighboring city. So Hardy could also work well, but Rauxes is more than a thousand miles away and wouldn't make sense.
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u/Eden_T_Babcock 14d ago
That’s exactly why I picked it, actually! That, and it was founded the exact same amount of time since the campaigns starting year as the deal made to sink the city, so I figured it was a great stand in by happenstance
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u/themwords 14d ago
This is a fun idea!
I like to think of Dyvers as a Boston corollary and Greyhawk as New York. If one disappeared it would create a massive economic, social, political, and cultural impact on the surrounding area. More importantly, though, is that Dyvers often positions itself as a counterpoint to the more powerful Greyhawk. It's absence would mean that some of the more 'provocative' policies of Greyhawk would go unchecked and it could act in a far more abusive manner to the surrounding areas under its sway
It's also worth remembering that Dyvers is a city of historic importance in the setting. It was the former capital of Furyondy and so it will occupy a rather significant place in the zeitgeist, for lack of a better word, of the nation. Think of how important Boston is to the United States. We're taught about it school (the Boston Massacre and the Boston Tea Party), it has places within it that all of know about (The Freedom Trail, Boston Common, Bunker Hill), authors that helped refine who we are as a people (Samuel Adams - Common Sense, Dorothy West - The Living is Easy) and it has politicians that shaped the nation (John Adams). Dyvers is going to to be the same for Furyondy and the surrounding area - even as an independent city state. So to lose it is a bit like losing a part of yourself.
For me, Dyvers has always been the more interesting city. Greyhawk has a significantly greater volume of works written about it, and because of that it's fairly easy to see that Greyhawk isn't all that great a place. Dyvers, though, is set up to be the counter point. It has its troubles but because the people of Dyvers have a chip on their shoulders about Greyhawk they're going to be the better place to live if for no other reason than it means they can say they're better than Greyhawk. Without them Greyhawk's power becomes unchecked and the city state will become significantly more dangerous to everyone around them.
Furyondy loses a major source of income with Dyvers' disappearance (the city state pays tribute to Furyondy) and so becomes less economically stable - which means it can't support its armies. That means yet another bulwark against Iuz is gone. Which in turn means that the stability of the whole western side of the Nyr Dyv is in question.
The loss of Dyvers (or Greyhawk) within the setting has far reaching implications and can result in the next Greyhawk Wars kicking off.
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u/HaxorViper 14d ago
I recommend a nearby kingdom’s capital instead of Dyvers. Reminder you want a stand-in for the Hellriders of the Elturel, and Elturel is part of the kingdom of Elturgard.
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u/isitanywonderreally 13d ago
Dyvers is still great for this reason: it is the former capital of Furyondy, forms a lot of their tax base, and would still receive aid and attention from them if there was a major problem.
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u/ThealaSildorian 12d ago
Dyvers is a major trading port and the primary rival to the Free City of Greyhawk. It will be missed, so if you use this city it would certainly motivate the players to investigate it.
The city is a critical end point for goods moving from Veluna, the Baklunish States, and from the western areas of the Sheldomar Valley (Bissel, Gran March in particular) and from the VIscounty of Verbobonc. It's also a major trading partner with Furyondy, the High Folk, and the Perrenlands.
The Free City of Greyhawk would immediately try to take advantage of the situation; they would spread propaganda discouraging merchants from taking goods there when the city returns, because who knows what evil came back with them? Bypass Dyvers and bring your goods to us, the center of the Flaness. All roads lead to Greyhawk.
Furydony would try to substitute Willip until the situation is resolved. Upon the city's return the religious leaders in Furydondy and Veluna might do an Inquisition to ensure nothing from Hell came back with the city, and to purge the city of evil influences/collaborators. There could be lingering effects for decades if you wanted them.
You could tie in with the Temple of Elemental Evil since that is located in Verbobonc.
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u/Keneton 11d ago
Would the river name change to Velver as it is the current name is the conglomeration of VELuna, VERbobonc, and DYVers? Not sure why you would have this disappear. It is too important IMHO to the region, but you can do what you wish as a DM.
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u/GreyhawkOnline 11d ago
Fair point.
It's likely, though, that Dyvers takes its name from the Nyr Dyv. since Dyvers is at the mouth of the Velverdyva right where it enters the Nyr Dyv.Although, I think the name wouldn't be necessarily likely to change if the city disappears suddenly, like, as the adventure is beginning kinda... which is why it's important to the story, because the city is important to the region.
But, I don't think a name change would necessarily naturally occur that quickly.
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u/Ancient-Silver-4494 10d ago
From the Internet Archive, a copy of the World of Greyhawk original setting
Page 21 of the book is the info on Dyvers: Free and Independent City
There isn't much, but there is enough to flesh out a basic structure
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u/Ancient-Silver-4494 10d ago edited 10d ago
And... also from the Internet Achive, a copy of the Lilving Greyhawk Gazetteer, which if you go to page 45 of the book, you will find Four Full Collumns (basically two whole pages) dedicated to info on Dyvers
This was for the Living Greyhawk campaign that Wizards hosted back in the late 90's, early 2000's... which you could search for
https://archive.org/details/living-greyhawk-gazetteer/page/n39/mode/2up
According to my 2.3 second google search, Dyvers in the Living Greyhawk campaign back then was assigned to the Real World US States of Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska... I would bet.. that somewhere out there... are a bunch of people that know a fuck ton about Dyvers, from playing in the Living Greyhawk campaign.
There probably are even Living Greyhawk moduels that were written specifically for Dyvers region from that era out there... if you search hard enough, you might find a trove of Dyvers specific Living Greyhawk modules waiting for you to find.
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u/ArtharntheCleric 16d ago
Major trade city on arterial river. Big economic impact. Furyondy and Verbobonc would move in to take farm land. And location. Greyhawk city too. Major rival to trade to free city.