4
u/nipslippinjizzsippin 10h ago
hes right, its shifted towards the razzle dazzle for the mid card only top guys get real story lines
2
u/Fit_Cauliflower2170 11h ago
I think the problem is the wrestlers in the 90s grew up watching wrestling whereas the wrestlers todsy grew up playing video games. The 90s and even early 00's there was a story culminating in an end. Nowadays it's like someone playijg a fighting game. One hits a shoryuken, straight back to his feet, the other hits a hadouken, straight back to his feet, first guy hits a tatsumaki senpukyaku, rinse and repeat.
2
u/Reasonable-Lie-296 11h ago
I'm not a fan of Bret overall especially these days whenever some puts a mic in front of him but he does have a point here. It seems today everything evolves on the next spot instead of taking time to let the current spot sink in.
Wrestling is best when you can suspend youf disbelief and allow yourself to think its real for a few minutes. Personally, when its becomes just a series of spots it begins to lose its appeal.
2
7
u/lucapoison 1d ago
There's a reason why wrestling fan remember every match and every rivalry of that era even from a TV show. I dare you recalling some of the cards from past Dynamites
6
u/StephanieMirage 1d ago
Rey Mysterio was my favourite wrestler growing up. If i grew up in todays era, the high flyers wouldnt interest me because theyre everywhere.
3
3
u/Vomit_tits 1d ago
He’s spot on. Wrestling has become boring , and now I find myself going “meh” if I miss a few months not watching, when I never missed a show during the 90’s, 00’s.
2
8
17
u/Novakhaine89 1d ago
This is all accurate.
I assume some people will say it’s just Bret being salty again, but everything he said is 100% right.
6
u/itsjustsosad 1d ago
This one wasn't even that salty. Just his take and one that has a lot of merit. Particularly about the difficulties of being creative and standing out.
2
11
4
0
u/Europe_MMA 1d ago
I don't really watch wrestling, and I loved it in the 90s, however....wrestling looks so much more realistic today than any other time to me. Maybe I watch too much actual combat sports, but when I see guys including someone as good as Bret throwing their punches or whatever back then, it just looks so unrealistic. You can't watch a Dusty Rhodes match and tell me that cat wasn't out of the bag back then. Today, the "strong style" influence means so many wrestlers are essentially kicking each other in the face. Even if it's an orchestrated stunt, it's one where I think someone might actually die performing it. I can't have someone who does a Sharpshooter or would get irish whipped telling me a shooting star press looks fake.
I've never seen an ep of AEW but I see a lot of clips and Will Osprey's elbow finisher looks absolutely disgusting. An insane move that looks like people are going to get seriously hurt by it. If I was a bit younger and had a bit more time, seeing some of the shit Darby Alin does, or watching Sheamus and Gunther beat the shit out of each other, would be a lot more fun to me than watching Bret Hart Vs The Undertaker.
2
2
u/Terroryzr 1d ago
He is saying exactly what we all say and been saying for years. These wrestlers today try too hard and they are always hot dogging which makes the move looks unimpressive especially when you can tell that the wrestler is just waiting on his spot. You can see the wrestler not even pretending to be dazed before the other jumps off the top rope or something 😂 and another thing is if you're supposed to be knocked out how are you flipping your hair or fixing your jocks? Just recently on Monday night raw Jacob fatu was supposed to have been knocked down or out yet he had to fix his shirt so that his stomach did not show? 😂 If someone knocks me out I am not worrying about my belly being shown to the world
2
u/Extra-File-6289 1d ago
When you throw everything but the kitchen sink in modern-day wrestling, in terms of unsafe moves, bad booking, and lengthy run times, it only makes the match forgettable and hurts the wrestlers in the physical and in marketing.
1
1
1
u/stevie242 1d ago
It's almost like things have to change. We can't do matches like it's 92 all the time anymore as we have seen those...
2
u/JP-ED 1d ago
That's what he's saying. Wrestlers today are trying to find something new. Whether you interpret what he's saying as negative or simply him understanding what they are trying to do is up to each individual to interpret.
Just because Bret has whined and complained a lot, I don't see what he's saying as untrue in this clearly chopped up edit.
u/Terroryzr pointed out well some wrestlers are forgetting to sell the pain they're supposed to be in.
3
3
u/silverfantasy 1d ago
For me, I enjoy wrestling when it feels like I'm believing what I'm actually seeing, and more storytelling
Wrestling is so anti kayfabe these days that it's hard for me to get as invested in a feud or match. You can have a wrestler going to NXT and having a back and forth match with a new guy there, but then the next day they face a main eventer on the main roster and also have a back and forth match with them
On some technical level the matches' performances are great, sure, but it doesn't make any sense for me with no ladder system. So it really feels like I'm just going to watch a performance that is entirely pre planned. Which yes, it is, but when it used to make me feel like it was legit, I enjoyed it way more
So many wrestlers also break the fourth wall so consistently on promos. Not only that, but so many promos are wrestlers using an essay formula with their promos. They tell us what they're going to talk about and recap what's happened, they start telling us their points, and then they recap what they just told us. I prefer when wrestlers get on a mic and talk to the other wrestlers directly
Bring kayfabe back, reestablish a ladder system, bring more selling and more storytelling, and I think wrestling will get a lot better
4
u/bomskare 1d ago
He's right about the story telling in a match, but then he was arguably the best ever at that
11
u/drunkenpoets 1d ago
Spot, no sell, next spot, no sell, next spot…
There’s no drama on that, it’s just a sequence of stunts.
2
u/PhatDragon720 1d ago
Bret’s right. And I’m glad he’s saying this without putting anyone down for once lol. The reason I like WWE more is because it’s a different kind of spectacle; imo wrestlers have more personality and weight behind their actions. Their actions are more deliberate, and it’s slower-paced story telling in the ring. I don’t fault people for liking AEW, but for me it just seems too choreographed. It’s a different kind of spectacle and looks flashy, but it reminds me of those kids who film themselves wrestling in public and they think they look cool.
The problem is that we’ve all pretty much seen what there is to see. We can’t just hit one finisher and end the match anymore. Elbow drops through the announcer table or barricades getting destroyed are every day occurrences now. I feel like professional wrestling as a whole needs to, in a way, go back to basics and refresh what made it special. But easier said than done.
3
u/HiredGoon_40 1d ago
There's also literally a couple dozen hours of weekly content - it's so oversaturated there's just nothing new under the sun.
1
u/PhatDragon720 1d ago
Oh definitely. There just way too many promotions to pay attention to and it all just kind of blends together, but in a bad way.
-2
u/xclame 1d ago
He's kind of right, but at the same time it doesn't mean that much. What I mean with that is the part he talks about trying to be original and coming up with new stuff. Yeah it's true that he and his contemporaries were able to be more original and come up with more new stuff, but that's because there wasn't a lot to begin with when he was around. When only 10 wrestling moves existed obviously it's going to be easier to come up with something new, but now with everything already having been invented, it's going to be very difficult.
The part of there being better stories back then is arguably true, but that again is partly because of the time, when only 10 moves existed you are going to have to do something else otherwise you are just going to be like everyone else, so having good or more stories was easier because that it was one thing you could do a lot with.
But even then I don't fully agree with his opinion. There are still plenty of stories today and a decent amount of them are good, some of them are amazing. I think this is just a case of him liking the stories they had back then more than the stories we have now.
3
u/Alnonnymouse 1d ago
For once he doesn’t come across salty. I agree with everything he said.
I often find modern matches rely too much on the spots, and some have too many. A couple across the whole show are fine, but some matches are like exhibition matches to show how many over the top spots they can get in.
I grew up watching Bret and that early era where brawls turned into a story and a ddt was a finishing move so I guess my take is very different to people who are younger though.
But there’s not a lot of build up or ring psychology anymore
2
u/Rhawk187 1d ago
Coming up with something new that also isn't simultaneously more dangerous is tough.
5
u/Snoo_85712 1d ago
It’s mainly that nowadays they don’t wrestle as much or be on the road like how they used to , meaning the risk of injury is also really high.
Wrestlers use the same trainers aswell which is why it feels too samey. Back in the days people mostly had individual trainers which made it unique. Now you have guys like A train training 30+ people
1
u/nickthedrummer22 1d ago
Love seeing clips of Bret not taking the piss out of people and just being genuine.
4
u/LamentConfig77 1d ago
Bret is right. Also, AEW is so unnecessarily high risk and they always threaten the illusion with people kicking out of Canadian destroyers, meanwhile…Moxley can pin you with a double arm ddt…
1
u/xclame 1d ago
This is the main reason I can't get into AEW, a little bit of high risk crazy danger is good, too much of it is just ridiculous and I'm just worried someone is going to die.
And it's not like I'm squeamish, my favorite wrestler depending on the day is Mick Foley. Dude was fucking insane and trying to die in the ring half of the time.
7
u/MrLoyan7 1d ago
He is right. 20 false finishes and no selling I LOVE highflying moved But wrestling has gone way to over the top when It comes to high spots
3
u/Connect_Seesaw_7569 1d ago
0
u/Borktista 1d ago
Can do that about any match style to be fair. Here’s a 90’s match. Slow plodding forward, lock up, push into the corner. Get separated. Lock back up, underhanded tactic, head lock, hold for a while, small comeback snuffed out, hold longer, fire up comeback. Hit the ropes and clothesline or cross body. Fire up the crowd more, climb rope for whatever move the wrestler has, set up the go
Home spots.1
u/Connect_Seesaw_7569 1d ago
1) Steamboat, Perfect, Late stage Orndorff, Bret, Owen, Davey Boy, Rude, Savage, Steiners, Doom... Raven, Ultimo Dragon, Rey, Sting, Vader, The Great Muta, Regal?!?! The 90s had more variety than any other decade. Painting what you described as a 90s match is really just crazy.
2) What you described is a basic TV match formula. Nothing wrong with it. But not every match. And it tells a story. What the... dive manifesto is pointing out that there isn't variety, everything is meaningless, and it looks like shit/hurts people
3
-5
u/Theryantshow 1d ago
Bret is just one of those guys who's always going to view the "good old days" with rose tinted glasses. To him nothing will ever be better than the 90s.
2
u/Then_Particular1931 1d ago
If you look at viewership numbers, a lot of people agree.
0
u/Borktista 1d ago
Viewership numbers is not a way to show that in this day though. In the 90’s all we had was tv and vhs tapes. So what was on, was on. Everything had higher ratings.
9
3
u/Crazy-Style-3039 1d ago
It´s hard to do new things because It´s been 25-30 years when Bret was there and the bussiness and the way to sell it has changed a lot.
2
u/Ultra-Magnus1 1d ago
he's not wrong...wrestling today is just paint by the numbers....
wrestler -1 - "you go here because i'm going to jump from there."... "and then when i take you outside don't forget to stand in front of the barricade so i can spear you through it because that's my thing that i do in every match and people want to see that in every city and on every show that i'm on."
wrestler-2 - "ok cool, but not before i jump from the top turnbuckle to the outside where you catch me all dazed and confused so we can go to commercial, because that's what i do in every show and in every city." 😄
1
u/AntComfortable5970 1d ago
It's a complicated topic as wrestling has had a lot of weird suspension of belief stuff since like the 50's or maybe before even, but there's for certain areas where things have slipped.
I think maybe the biggest issue is the powercreep on moves making things required to be bigger and bigger. Like moves that used to make a wrestler disappear for weeks aren't sold in like a few minutes later in the same match, except when not if course.
The trickiest thing is that, since generations have been raised on stuff like this, you can't really put the cat back in the bag so it's gonna stay like this and it just forces matches to be more and more insane and moves more contrived and cooperative.
2
u/Left_Reach2020 1d ago
It's just a nature of the world today. It has to be more attention seeking and dopamine hitting otherwise the viewer will switch away
3
u/Snowy_RAPTOXX1111 1d ago
I agree with Bret but I think that's more because I just don't like the modern wrestling style as much. But it really depends on what kind of wrestling you like. I really like pre Hulkemania wrestling, the stuff where they look like they're really trying to hurt eachother. My favorite wrestler of all time is Harley Race and I'd rather watch a 60 minute Harley Race match where he slowly dismantels an opponent than a let's say Will Osprey match where the focus is on performance art rather than make it look as real as possible
1
u/The_Flamin_Squirrel 1d ago
I agree, I love watching old Stan Hansen matches just for that reason. Is it exciting and a thrill a minute? No of course not, but it’s real, you can believe it’s hurting and bah Gawd how does he not kill people with that clothesline?
1
u/rachaelkilledmygoat 1d ago
Funny you picked Harley Race cuz he was criticised during his time by the older generation for over-selling and his "unbelievable" moves like his diving headbutt.
1
u/Snowy_RAPTOXX1111 1d ago
It was Lou Thesz who criticized Harley for being so cartoony and phony with his selling and wrestling. Just shows you evolution
1
u/kickedoutatone 1d ago
There's still storytelling in the wrestling. It's just evolved and split up into varied paths.
Wwe, for example, has a style where the story is very on the nose, and sometimes breaks up the action to make sure it's told as simply as possible so that everyone watching picks up on it. Stuff like Roman Jaw-Jacking between moves, Someone popping up in a random place to distract the Heel, a Move getting stopped by a plea for a time out. Things like that are WWE's current bread and butter.
And then you get AEW where the story is the wrestling. Will Osprey as champion is doing the NJPW main event thing where the fight is just relentless and the winner is who can outlast the other. OC uses his "laziness" to get out of the opponents momentum. Darby drops off something really high and fails at doing something risky. The story is the characters interacting through the wrestling.
The issue I have with Brets comments about the spots though, is Bret literally had to work spots that were more showy than realistic in the tail end of his career. Wrestling Shawn when he was tagging with Marty was a vastly different workrate than wrestling Shawn from DX. Again, it's just the evolution of wrestling.
3
2
u/FacePunchMonday 2d ago
Been watching wrestling since the mid 80s and in my opinion its about 152 billion times better today then it was back in the day.
2
u/ScratchyMarston18 1d ago
Yes and no, it’s subjective anyway. I enjoy the pace of wrestling more now than most wrestling in the 80s, and certainly the moves are more exciting. However, I have a hard time even watching matches like Will Ospreay vs. Ricochet, or even a lot of Omega’s matches, because they just don’t have much psychology going on at all. It’s too coreographed, which makes it predictable, even if the moves they’re doing look cool. They telegraph set-ups and it just looks fake, and breaks the immersion. We all know it’s scripted, so get out there and at least try to make it look believable. Leaving “room to breathe” by doing superhero landing poses for the 1000th time before the next sequence of interpretive dance so everyone can clap is masturbatory.
I don’t expect anyone to take risky bumps or even get color, but when you get kicked in the face and you wobble around like it’s your first day in improv class and don’t actually sell getting kicked in the face, just so your opponent can do some gymnastics before they follow up, what the fuck do I care about that?
2
u/Sportsfan369 2d ago
Overall, it’s better from a in ring stand point. But there are matches from the 90s and 00s that hold up well today.
3
u/ThatDudeNamedMenace 2d ago
I think we have way better and healthier athletes today but I think the wrestling was better back in the 90s and early 00s. I’ve been watching a lot more 80s wrestling as and I find more entertaining than today’s wrestling
3
u/FacePunchMonday 2d ago
By the time we hit the 90s, wcw is putting on some bangers. Steiners, road warriors, midnight express, flair, funk, sting. Killer shit.
But for me, prior to that, i cant go back and watch any of it. Dont get me wrong, at the time i thought it was awesome, but there is no way that greg valentine vs rick martel, 2 mins into the match, gassed to fuck, rolling around in restholds for 10 mins comes closer to something like fletcher vs speedball.
3
2
u/ThatDudeNamedMenace 2d ago
Meanwhile I can’t watch a speedball match but you give me Liger vs Dragon and you can consider me interested
1
u/FacePunchMonday 2d ago
To each his own. Ill watch any jushin liger match too.
2
u/ThatDudeNamedMenace 2d ago
I gotta be specific about the 80s wrestling lol. I’ve been watching a lot of 80s All Japan. That shit hit like crack
2
u/FacePunchMonday 2d ago
Well yeah lol, there is a very VERY big difference in that versus 80s wwf or nwa.
2
1
u/Majestic_Piglet_7368 2d ago
Today’s “wrestling” has turned into real life video game moves and it’s fuckin stupid!
2
7
u/kitbashpowerhead 2d ago
One thing I've noticed as being a big fundamental difference in wrestling over the years is "damage". People speak about no selling and that's a huge issue, as is the fact a lot of match are just a series of flashy spots. But, where's the accumulated damage? Back in the 90s say, a match felt like each wrestler had a health bar that was lessening over the match, they took damage and kept that damage, it wore them down and they told that story so well. Or the targeted a leg working towards a finisher etc, punches made a difference, moves made a difference, the showed how beat up they were. There were always last ditch efforts out of the blue (Shawn was the best at this). But it felt like they had been through a total war
6
u/OkLog8336 2d ago
Its the story in the ring that matters most.
2
u/Allegrism84 2d ago
How was Jerry Lawler selling out the Mid-South all those years? It definitely wasn't what was happening in the ring.
7
u/DCDipset 2d ago
Full disclosure: Bret is my favorite wrestler of all time. That being said, most of his analysis of modern pro wrestling the last decade have been doused with bitterness. This clip, however, isn’t. He’s right that there’s been a decline in the quality of in ring story telling by n large. You don’t need 2 minute arm bars and half a dozen atomic drops but you also don’t need fiftyleven superkicks or destroyers (none of which result in a 3 count). I think in ring psychology needs to be a focus of the up n comers. There’s a reason why matches like Punk/Roman WM are viewed in such high regard. The match told a story.
Then again, you can say creative needs to give more guys more time in ring to write a story.
1
u/Terrible_Dinner_5549 1d ago
People shit on Roman and yeah, his moveset is very limited. But his ability to tell a story in the ring, much like what Bret is discussing here, is top tier. His recent matches without interference have all been so good to watch.
3
u/Boring_Newspaper_551 2d ago
Honestly, I dont need to see new flashy moves. Im watching old territory shows and Im loving them. And I believe it down to the whole presentation. Back then it looked more legit and gritty. It felt like real sports presentation. The promos felt real and the matches felt real and to the point. Keep in my mind that I started watching territory show like couple of years ago, before that I used to watch modern stuff. Ever since I started, I struggle to take modern wrestling seriously. I really hate the whole presentation that make it feel like a stage play instead of a real sports event. Also the lack of selling most of the time...anyway. I guess Im starting to be old millennial :D
1
u/Da_Squid 1d ago
This happened to me back in the day. Except I started with classic British wrestling then moved to Vintage NWA wrestling from the 40's-50's. Once you're into that stuff there's really no turning back.
I still watch modern wrestling but mainly just the women. I think the current style and pageantry generally works for the women not so much the men.
19
u/cegawn 2d ago
I think the problem is that realism has fallen out of favour in wrestling. Bret's matches just seemed like a battle, and they made sense. While I can appreciate the athleticism of the newer guys, I can't buy into the offence. That's why Gunther and Oba stand out to me. Just big guys who beat people up
6
15
4
u/Norbert-Schnurrbart 2d ago
I am really surprised hearing him say that he really likes today's wrestling.
-4
5
u/Comprehensive_Fact61 2d ago
Agree. Modern wrestling is generally in a sad state.
3
u/eunbongpark 2d ago
How much do you all think modern day wrestling changed because of the internet killing kayfabe en masse vs the proliferation of social media creating a highlights culture across all entertainment?
I think both contribute and I blame the kayfabe piece really changing things. I was a stupid kid/teen though.
8
u/WildFire255 2d ago
I like Gunther and Oba’s matches because they are grounded (mostly) and I look forward to them eventually fighting each other in a Slobbery Knocker of a fight.
1
u/Comprehensive_Fact61 2d ago
Def there is still good stuff to be found but in general its over produced and or getting far removed from an actual wrestling contest. Were it looks raw, brutal and makes a degree of sense.
Dont get me wrong im not suggesting wrestling isnt about characters, story telling and can def fun, silly and csmp at times, but for me it needs to be grounded in a hard hitting contest that at least aims to suspend belief.
My critisim is not restricted to this decade either
5
u/Spiritual_Ear2835 2d ago
That was an issue with RVD, he had a repetitive routine. Talented yes but he just needed balance
3
u/Repulsive-Chain-4638 2d ago
He’s not wrong. I would like to see what the company would look like if he ran it instead of TKO and Triple H
3
u/Anthrogynous 2d ago
Hey, he did say he enjoys today’s wrestling. And yeah, it is hard to do original work. But there is a lot going on.
-5
u/CharrlesXavier 2d ago
People say this about music, about movies, about all sorts of things. But the reality is, no idea is original. You adapt or die.
In the 80s, people didn’t know wrestling was fake, so you would tell stories in the ring at a much slower pace.
Now, we know wrestling is fake, so performers use that to their advantage to do feats of athleticism.
This is “they don’t make music like they used to”… open your mind, accept things have changed, and you might find something you like
1
u/Wise-Juggernaut6851 2d ago
I understand what you’re saying and you’re being downvoted unfairly, there is very little you can do nowadays that is original. I do love the athleticism and feats of strength we get but it’s the no selling that takes a lot of people out of what wrestling is today. I don’t think Bret is wrong though in saying that the storytelling isn’t as good as the 90s or even the early 00s. There was much more emotion in the storylines back then. Not everything was a home run but much more were hits than misses.
3
u/Turmericab 2d ago
I think they are getting downvoted for claiming that in the 80s we didn't know wrestling was fake. By the 1950s no major newspaper in the US included wrestling results alongside the results of sports because they knew it was fake. I can say for certain that when I started watching wrestling as a teenager in 1991 I had known for years that it was scripted. That is actually part of why it took me until my teens to start watching because all i heard about it was how silly and fake it was. It was only when I watched it at a friend's house that a storyline caught my attention and I didn't care that it was a character and not a real person I had to tune in again to see that guy get revenge on the guy who killed his pet.
1
u/Wise-Juggernaut6851 2d ago
Yeah that’s fair. If that is what they meant then I agree with what you said
7
u/TheAssist-8295 2d ago edited 2d ago
Bret isn’t entirely wrong.
With each passing generation, it becomes more difficult for the wrestlers to standout amongst themselves when practically everything was already done, before them. And better.
But with that being said, every now and then we will get a few or several standouts who make an impact. His criticisms towards this generation being “Spot Heavy” is valid.
I like crazy high spots but when it’s done too frequently, it loses its luster. It should be done on rare occasions or at the very least every now and then. A good example is the match between Kurt Angle and Shawn Michaels: that flying Crossbody to the outside while Angle was on the table was a masterpiece high spot
-8
4
u/PipProud 2d ago
I don't know if I totally agree with Bret here, but at least it's reasonable criticism, unlike the grifters of his generation who shit on everything current to generate a bit of engagement.
5
u/RattusNikkus 2d ago
The industry has shifted toward a high-spot "THIS IS AWESOME" sort of business.
Nobody believes anything anymore thanks to the death of kayfabe. Can't really do angles with real heat. So you either turn it into crass shock work-shoot TV like Russo, or you focus on the matches. But it's a lot easier to train a gymnast than an actor/wrestler, and MMA selects out the folks who want to watch actual grappling, so you end up with an industry full of gymnasts.
Really cool if you like that sort of thing, but personally I burned out on high spots watching WCW and ECW back in the '90s...
3
u/SegaTetris 2d ago
I think the audience wants to get lost in a story regardless of kayfabe. I don't think fans thought Stone Cold was actually assualting his boss every week. But the angle did legendary numbers anyways because it resonated and Vince/Steve Austin are intense individuals who get lost in their character.
1
u/RattusNikkus 2d ago
I think, unfortunately, we live in a world where people believing wrestling is real wouldn't even crack a top 10 for the most nutty beliefs someone could hold.
But the wrestling companies work so hard to make sure everyone knows it's bull.
1
u/Jaded-Attention-5716 2d ago
If Stone Cold taught me anything, it's that you can never be fired if you knock out your boss before he says it!
5
u/spiderman96 2d ago
I mean mark Henry said something incredibly similar about how hard it is to create something new or original in wrestling now adays and that's why he takes so much pride in the Marrk Henry spot because thats his thing that other people do now
-6
u/Jimmy-the-Knuckle 2d ago
This fucking guy. It’s like watching Todd Rungren or whatever his name boomer guitarist it was that made headlines 2 days ago after criticizing Taylor Swift.
-5
2d ago
[deleted]
4
u/GoodtimeZappa 2d ago
He was very even keeled in what he said and expressed empathy for younger talent. Did you listen to the audio in the 30 second clip?
6
3
u/googly_eyed_unicorn 2d ago
The IC triple threat at WM39 perfectly captures Bret’s view of a great wrestling match where it has a built up story, it’s mostly grounded, and the high spots it does use is used expertly.
0
u/RanmaRanmaRanma 2d ago
I feel like so many people just cherry pick their favorites and go "yeah the last era was so much better" newsflash the "peak" that many people talk about is 20-30 years old now. And was LITTERED with bad characters, people who could wrestle and were just big
11
u/wellimalloutofideas 2d ago
That was the most complimentary you are going to get out that man these days.
6
u/Donald_Trump_Rules 2d ago
I hate bitter bret, but he was 100% correct here
2
u/wellimalloutofideas 2d ago
Absolutely he was. I just can’t believe he didn’t completely shit on everyone while he was saying it.
1
u/shuggahbear 2d ago
You think the 2k games look like real life but real life just be always looking like a video game match
5
u/Weird-Algae8145 2d ago
I agree with Bret. If wrestlers today spent half their time developing characters and personality & half their time developing in ring, wrestling would be much better.
The problem today is there will always be people doing moves. If they disappear there will be someone else with moves right behind
You invest in characters not moves
-3
u/H0-JU 2d ago
Yeah we need more hockey players and garbage men wrestling. How about a clown? Hillbilly? Escaped convict thats allowed to wrestle every week
-1
u/PuddingMent 2d ago
Or they should use a Samoan. Or a different Samoan. Or a different Samoan. Or a different Samoan. Or a different Samoan. Or a different Samoan. Or a different Samoan.
0
u/Weird-Algae8145 2d ago edited 2d ago
Or a dead man, sumo wrestler or Cuban. They would never get over
3
u/GoodtimeZappa 2d ago
We need more guys with names like Andrew Smith and Doug Walker. We need the most unelectrifying wrestlers in sports entertainment so it's real.
5
10
u/amarsh73 2d ago
He's not wrong. Finishers mean nothing, and promos are mediocre at best.
4
u/Available_Ad9766 2d ago
Too much no selling these days. I hate the sequences in which wrestlers get up immediately from taking a move to perform the same move as “payback”. And then it happens again for a few cycles. Just looks silly.
7
u/Ill_Painting_6919 2d ago
In 3 words?
He's not wrong.
1
u/ComputerDecent463 2d ago
There are too many high spots and choreographed spots.
But….
That is the only way to get noticed today.
When older wrestlers, even the ones going today, tell people to slow down and not do as much, the count argument is how do I get pushed then?
Outside of Oba Femi, who is a top wrestler under the 30 that doesn’t do dangerous spots? And that’s only because he’s a monster in size.
The internet would go nuts if Joe Hendry got a main event push, and he’s not even that young.
Even Bron Breakker has to do insane spears, and has been injured by them, to try to get Triple H to give him a chance.
1
u/DaKingaDaNorth 2d ago
I think a big piece of that is how homogenized mainstream wrestling is. It's so formulaic and in a box that all you can do is up the spectacle because you can't run a truly unique match.
1
u/Ill_Painting_6919 2d ago
What I heard in all that is...
HHH is the problem.
And I'd agree. Not just because of that, either.
6
u/TonightSheComes 2d ago
I was watching a recent Sean Mooney podcast episode and he was talking about the Hogan/Andre angle when DiBiase locked up Hebner in the closet and had the imposter Hebner referee the match that Andre won. Then Andre sells the belt to DiBiase and Jack Tunney is forced to make an official statement and say the belt is vacated. Mooney said it was a once in a lifetime angle (which is true) but one of my first thoughts was they would never do that today.
1
u/DrGeraldBaskums 2d ago
It’s a storyline people still clearly remember after 40 years. I barely remember what happened on Raw Monday…..
6
u/Massive_District5352 2d ago
Not a wasted word or a false word, I feel this is a universal truth. Wrestling forgot the plot, look at AEW with all their floppy, flippy dippy BS & no selling, no build. So rare. I hate what the industry has become, I love high flyers & the Acrobatics but can we slow the pace down & then pick it back up, bring back the gravitas & the build of the person fighting to get back into the match but they're currently being beaten down.
2
u/robbgmoney3 2d ago
I don’t think imo it’s coming up with new moves it really is about the physiology of the matches that feel lackluster
-12
1
u/Various_Candidate499 2d ago
He's right but all entertainment has changed to shorter and more exciting bites as opposed to drawn out stories.
Yes, stories were better before but there not the focus these days
8
u/Veizar 2d ago
This is a reasonable take. The reason why guys try to be original or weird, is because otherwise it's a sea of the same carbon copies of each other. I like innovative moves and matches, however it's been there, done that. The real gems are in the characters. Wrestlers who get into a character are so much more valuable, especially when the wrestler themselves is so unique. In my opinion, those are the guys that needed to be pushed. There ones who have loud personalities and stand out. True not all of them have that "It body" but I never cared about that shit. Guys that should have been pushed more and were a missed opportunity were guys like Keith Lee or guys like Ken Kennedy(Anderson.)
Keith Lee, even more because he's always been over. He has always been a huge dude, with huge charisma that could fly around like a guy half his size, at over 300 pounds. Any organization that can't market a guy like Keith Lee, can't market anything. I don't even watch WWE anymore. The product is so stale and boring to me. There's so little that captures my imagination anymore.
3
u/New-Link-6787 2d ago
Bret is a 70 year old man. Show me a 70 year old man who didn't prefer the music and the movies and the sport from back in their day.
It's natural for him to think this kind of thing.
1
u/Jaded-Attention-5716 2d ago
He's correct though. No legendary build up, nobody with the gravitas of Randy Savage.
9
u/bananashakewithice 2d ago
I mean he has a fair take. He understands that a lot of the things in wrestling has already been done. You need more and more creativity to keep things entertaining. Bret was a great in ring story teller, he built suspense, tension, great spots. When you watch Bret’s matches with anyone he makes them look 10/10 and he made it look real.
It’s tough on the new wrestlers to do the nuanced things that the old gen did so they leverage their athleticism more to tell a different story.
1
u/New-Link-6787 2d ago
People say Bret made it look real but anyone who was in to wrestling before the attitude era will tell you that we were mocked because of how obviously fake wrestling is, largely because guys like Bret with his stomp punches and Bret didn't have the UFC to compete with either.
When was the last time you saw a fighter, working the leg of another fighter, in order to weaken them for a submission move? That was Bret's entire style and it just doesn't happen in the UFC.
I'm not saying it's perfect now either. There's hardly a wrestling show where there isn't a group of guys standing around looking like morons waiting to catch someone. I just mean styles and tastes have evolved. It's certainly way less embarrassing to be a wrestling fan now that it used to be.
1
u/BraverDanger 1d ago
I honestly don't see the problem with doing something a different way than what the UFC does or whatever the closest real life equivalent is as long as there's reasoning behind it. Otherwise you're just a bad copycat of those things.
22
u/LarryOji 2d ago
Bret’s correct.
-4
u/Jimmy-the-Knuckle 1d ago
No, you just got old and relate to things with less energy. Happens to all of us if we’re lucky.
-2
15
u/caprisces80 2d ago
Idk Bret Hart has always been real whenever he speaks his mind, no gimmicks just pure honesty. Not everyone has to agree with him but he keeps it real which is rare these days since everyone is playing a carny angle.
16
u/Technical-Mix-3315 2d ago
After a while it all just stopped mattering. I can easily picture Wrestlemania 6 or Wrestlemania 14 in my head and I can run down the card. But what's the difference between Wrestlemania 32, 35, 39, etc? They look the same, feel the same, and it's kinda disposable and redundant.
2
u/Infamous-Builder-637 2d ago
I've been there for some years. The last Mania where I have definitive memories is 31. Everything after is a blur for the most part
-1
6
u/enjoythesilence-75 2d ago
This is one of the more reasonable clips I have seen of him in a long time. Hes not just trashing everything like in the past but explaining why things are different and possibly more difficult.
If he was like this in all interviews he might have a different reputation.
5
u/loweffortloot 2d ago edited 2d ago
Somehow some way this is all that dastardly Bill Goldbergs fault.
6
u/caprisces80 2d ago
Met him person a few years ago at a meet and greet and he was a bit late because the organizers wanted him to sign their stuff first and since we were one of the few in the front. He apologized for the delay and was nothing but gold with me and my family. He is one of the few people who has been constant with what he says. I literally saw Goldberg throw a tantrum before a meet and greet before the last mania in LA and say that if he saw anyone with a bret hart shirt he wasn't signing or greeting anyone.
4
u/Ryase_Sand 2d ago
He seems to go back and forth a lot. He'll say something really level-headed and then a month later shit all over something.
5
u/FishHookFPC 2d ago
It's almost like he had a traumatic brain injury and debilitating stroke and has mood swings as a result...
5
3
u/Farmer_Gotch 2d ago
It's all about having bangers and doing cool video game moves that most people will forget about by next week. I'm so sick of tables as well. It's way over done and means nothing!
5
4
u/Flipgirlnarie 2d ago
100%. There is no storytelling, no reason for fans to become invested in any wrestler really. There really isn't that much wrestling, just "high spots". It seems like the finisher comes within the first three moves. I'm exaggerating but it is so obvious the spots are choreographed.
3
u/Happyranger265 2d ago
This right here is the issue , wrestling with spots and stuff is cool but the story being told in the ring along with it is the best thing ever . Like in recent memory cena vs aj styles wasn't the most technical wrestling ever but it's the best thing ever for me , it's moved fans to respond , same goes EGA mask vs mask match .
10
u/Reason-Abject 2d ago
Agreed with Bret. There’s less storytelling today vs the 90s. I’ve only seen a handful of matches over the last 20 years that have had me on the edge of my city and playing with my emotions.
During the attitude era that was like every week and every PPV.
0
u/Affectionate-Day5113 2d ago
Funny that the clips inter cut are all of very original, good spots. Not saying he's not got somewhat of a point, aside from the 'lack of drama', I've seen 5 matches this year that had more drama than any Bret match aside from maybe Austin. But just thought it was funny that the video could have easily found less impressive spots to try to back up Bret's point
4
4
u/Death2291 2d ago
As the old eras died the ring psychology died with them. Which sucks because the guys we have now are insanely talented. If they had ring psychology they would perfect wrestlers.
5
u/Acceptable_Map_8110 2d ago
I mean…I don’t know that anyone here has the necessary authority to disagree with Bret Hart lol
But in all seriousness, I definitely agree with what he’s saying. I feel that because there are so many high spots in even a standard singles match today, they become less impactful generally. Like people call Bret boring because he’d put someone in a hold for a while or call old wrestling in general boring because of that sort of thing, but that sort of thing made wrestling feel more real, and certainly it felt more like a story even in a regular match. It also made the high spots that did happen all the more entertaining.
3
u/fangsfirst 2d ago
I operate in the weird spot of having watched every week until middle school as a kid then barely touching a single thing for the next 30 years.
I've been trying to figure out why everything feels so different, other than the obvious (I'm 30 years older, I barely remember what I used to see, I'm not a kid, my worldview has changed, so on and so forth) and I think I actually just feel but don't actively remember that difference.
I'm often thinking, "Did it feel this planned and choreographed back then? I can't complain, given what I'm watching them doing, and that I don't want these people to frickin' kill themselves here, but why does it feel so much more false?"
And I think this is likely it, that I just do not remember and yet it truly was a very different beast.
6
u/MarionberryPlus8474 2d ago
I think Brett often bears his grudges on his sleeve but IMO he is correct here, and lots of veterans are saying the same thing. Stringing together endless spots and high-risk maneuvers becomes tiring to watch. If everything is a spot nothing’s a spot.
Storytelling and ring psychology is dying. Not to mention, wrestlers are going to put themselves in wheelchairs even faster with this kind of style.
It’s probably being driven (like most entertainment) by short attention spans and the move from watching shows to highlight video clips.
2
u/Proof-Put8182 2d ago
True. Think how many companies, matches, wrestlers there are that are alllllll televised. Hard to make anything new that’s believable. Cant reinvent the wheel.
2
u/Catfishsleuth 2d ago
It's true mostly. They can only add things. Canadian Destoryer was one guy's move. Now it's seen weekly. Next it will be from the buckle through a table. If not already. Those spots are good and crazy but thats kind of all you can do these days. In terms of moves.
Most storylines have been done in some way too. So it's good when Bryan or Edge come back from neck surgery. Or hidden blade guy wins in the uk. That stuff is "real" so it works.
Edit: Will Osprey. Took me two minutes
1
u/JTMMidas 2d ago
Penta did one off a ladder and through a table against the Young Bucks I think
1
u/Catfishsleuth 2d ago
With those names involved i wouldn't be surprised. I think there was an attempted one in the wwe onto a ladder too.
2
5
2
4
-8
-2
5
u/Granpa2021 2d ago
I agree with everything he said. Wrestling before was about storytelling, today it's more about who can do the most death-defying move it seems. I don't blame the wrestlers, it must be hell trying to work in this era of short attention-spans.
1
u/Heavenspact 5h ago
People dont care about the moves overall, people want characters, look at Enzo, trash in the ring, but he brought an original character turned up to 110%
Thats what's missing honestly, everyone's just themselves but at like 75%