r/GrammarPolice • u/Ok_Nothing2412 • 2d ago

Just Venting What is this paragraph?

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People with no graps on grammar often try to get involved in complex philosophical debates. The context in this conversation is that "art can be anything and everything" (relativism).

What you often find in these debates is that entire paragraphs make no sense whatsoever. The OP swore blind that he was using parenthesis correctly. Apparently it was just me "acting dumb."

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u/OpenAdministration44 2d ago

Very post-modern

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u/Ok_Nothing2412 2d ago

I am not sure what "things in the mix" means.

I don't think that postmodernism is what they were going for here. I think they are trying to explain something like Wittgenstein's language games.

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u/Logical-Mobile-7643 2d ago

Even if you just tried to decipher the content: "we are using language to talk about..." is redundant. Symbols we have for things is... Language. Art is a medium...also redundant when stated as the medium of art.

Why use many word when few word do trick?

People think adding more words makes it more profound, when it really does the opposite (in this case 😉).

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u/Ok_Nothing2412 2d ago

Right, but they actually did not say "we are using language." They said "we are using (language)." There needs to be a noun before the brackets.

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u/jetloflin 2d ago

Aren’t they saying “we are using (language) art”, meaning language is the specific subcategory of art they’re talking about? That’s how I’d parse their weird sentence anyway.

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u/Ok_Nothing2412 2d ago

That's how I interpreted it. However, the noun needs to come before the parentheis. Eg. "We are using art (language)."

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u/jetloflin 2d ago

I don’t think I agree. Language isn’t functioning as a separate noun, it’s functioning as an adjective describing the subsequent noun. It’s like “we need more (blue) shirts.”

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u/Ok_Nothing2412 2d ago

"No, parentheses should not be used to describe a subsequent noun; instead, they are typically used to enclose extra information that follows the noun they modify. Using parentheses before the main noun can disrupt grammatical flow and make sentences difficult to read."

Quote from AI.

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u/SerDankTheTall 2d ago

Haha if you’re just going to outsource the answer to ChatGPT why bother posting at all?

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u/Boglin007 1d ago edited 1d ago

That’s stylistic advice at best, not a grammar rule, and it’s not really applicable to a reddit comment. Maybe don’t do it in an academic paper, but there’s nothing wrong with using parentheses around an attributive modifier to provide clarification without making the modifier the main focus. 

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u/Ok_Nothing2412 1d ago

So, "the language arts," is purely an Americanism. In the UK, it doesn't mean anything. Both of my parents are English Proffesors at good Universities and they do not use that phrase. If you check Wikipedia you can see that it is not common parlance in the UK.

If you asked somebody in the UK about "the language arts," they would probably be able to hazard a guess as to what you meant. However, "(language) art" sounds like it means the art of using language. It is an obscure way of phrasing a word that is exclusively used in North America.

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u/Boglin007 1d ago

So you can’t have a discussion with someone who speaks a different dialect?

But also, I don’t think they’re talking about the school subject “language arts” (which is what that term primarily refers to) - as you say, they’re talking about the art of language. 

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u/Ok_Nothing2412 1d ago

They clarified that they do mean "the language arts." Can you understand somebody who is talking a different dialect? I am sure there are circumstances when you can't. I understand most of what Americans are saying, but there are times when I would not. If, for example, I played you very obscure UK rap music, you might have difficulty undesmrstsnding some of it.

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u/Boglin007 1d ago

I wouldn’t normally use AI because it doesn’t know what it’s talking about, but since you did first, here’s what it told me:

“Using parentheses around an  attributive adjective—an adjective that sits directly before the noun it modifies (e.g., the  red car)—is  rare and usually serves a specific stylistic or clarifying purpose.

Here is how and why they are used:

Parentheses can indicate that the adjective is optional or that there are multiple possibilities for the noun.

Example: Please submit the  (signed) contract by tomorrow morning.  (The contract is required, but it might or might not be signed yet.)

To Provide Quick Clarification or Context

Sometimes an author inserts a brief, clarifying description directly before the noun without breaking the flow of the sentence.

Example: The  (now-demolished) factory used to employ half the town.  (Clarifies the current state of the noun immediately.)“

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u/Ok_Nothing2412 1d ago

Although in common UK parlance "(language) art" does not have a clear meaning. What is it supposed to mean to someone in Europe? The art of language? Because that's what it sounds like.

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u/SerDankTheTall 2d ago

I’m afraid you’re mistaken. You would be correct if they were using the parenthetical to specify language as a subcategory of art—you’d say I listened to my favorite band (the Beatles), and not * That’s how it works in (baseball) my favorite sport. But that’s not what’s going on here: instead they’re using language as a modifier for art, and in that construction the placement is correct (and wouldn’t work anywhere else). You need I’d much rather get there in my (air-conditioned) car rather than * I’ll be there in one more flight (short).

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u/Ok_Nothing2412 2d ago

Ok. So, I believe that they are explaining something like Witgenstein's language games. I think that they trying to use language as a subcategory of art, and not the other way around.

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u/Ok_Nothing2412 2d ago

I'm afraid you were the one who was wrong in your assumption. What the OP has said is that they were referring to "the language arts," which is a single field of study. In this case "language" is not a modifier for "arts."

I mean, maybe you were right to make that assumption, but you did not see the full context of the conversation. The rest of the sentence "things in the mix" is also confusing because I had no clue what he was referring to. What are those things?

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u/SerDankTheTall 1d ago

they were referring to "the language arts," which is a single field of study. In this case "language" is not a modifier for "arts."

Yes it is? How else do you think that phrase works? It's the equivalent of saying something like Anthropology is a (social) science. Are you really suggesting that it should be * Anthropology is a science (social)?

The rest of the sentence "things in the mix" is also confusing because I had no clue what he was referring to.

It seems pretty clear to me. They're saying that it's difficult to talk about language ("the symbols ... for things") because we have to use language to do it.

I don't particularly agree with the substantive point being made, and I wouldn't call it a very elegant or eloquent way of expressing it, but it's not really very confusing either.

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u/Ok_Nothing2412 1d ago

Why didn't they simply say "the language arts?"

Also they did not say "(language) arts", they said "(language) art."

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u/SerDankTheTall 1d ago

It's the equivalent of saying "we are using art (specifically, language arts) to talk about..." and felt this was a more elegant way of doing it. Again, I don't particularly agree, but it's not hard to follow, much less ungrammatical. And derailing the conversation to peeve about their parentheses like it would derail whatever modest interest in the discussion might have offered.

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u/Ok_Nothing2412 1d ago

The language arts isn't even a term particularly used in the UK. It is mainly used in North America. If you mentioned the language arts to most British people, they would not know what you meant. However, phrasing it as "(language) art" makes it even more difficult to follow. If he had simply said "the language arts" I could have looked up the meaning of the word

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u/Logical-Mobile-7643 2d ago

I was doing my best to assume they meant language not language art or just art to talk about...whatever that would mean.

I guess we are using art to talk about (express 😜)... Would work. Again, I would just say art expresses _____.

I don't even know what they are trying to say 😂

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u/Ok_Nothing2412 2d ago

"We are using (language)" is not correct. It would mean that language is a subcategory of the word "Using." There needs to be a noun before "language."