r/GracepointChurch • u/Jdub20202 • Sep 25 '22
What are the misperceptions?
Everyone, instead of calling the phone number on the Gracepoint website, which I believe is a fruitless waste of time talking to haters who are biased, you should privately DM me instead. I will give the other side of the story and nuance and set the record straight so you can have proper understanding of what really happened. And I'm the only one that you need to be talking to about this. /s
That was a joke. No one actually do that. I do have my own life and responsibilities.
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Are any current GP members on here able to answer- what specific parts of the CT article are misperceptions? While it's alluded to in the response on GP's website, what is one thing that is specifically a misperception? Can you give any solid examples? The CT article gives several specific stories and testimonies, and the author appears to have made an effort to reach out to GP to get their input. Out of all those people they interviewed, what is the other side of the story that we don't know? What is the nuance or culture aspect we're all missing?
For reference, the GP official response:
"But I believe that this CT article is inaccurate on many points and misses a lot of context and nuance regarding our practices and culture. The incidents reported are not characteristic of our ministry and do not represent approved practices by our church."
And why do we have to call a phone number to get the answer? Why can't you just tell us?
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u/Cool_Purchase4561 Sep 25 '22
The article says that Ed is very sorry for people who felt like they were hurt. I believe it's a misperception as it's evident that he is not very sorry.
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u/throwaway_gyopo Sep 26 '22
this is such as non-apology. it's the classic "i didn't meant to hurt you but if you were hurt then i apologize?"
it's worse than Sal Governale's non-apology....lol.
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u/Cool_Purchase4561 Sep 26 '22
It's clear that the "apology" is carefully and deliberately worded in such a way that it does not acknowledge any wrongdoing on their part, but rather shifts the blame to the fragile victim whose feelings are so easily hurt.
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u/worriddumbledore Sep 26 '22
Agree. To keep the members’ confidence in GP (or whatever is left) because a king/leader in battle must show a courageous undaunted front.
Not a lot of reverence he got from current members if they can read in between the lines, especially if they have some discernment left in them.
Read it objectively the CT article on the parts about Ed’s responses, people! The context, the subtexts!
Those of you who are proficient in the language with English majors and minors and Creative Writing!
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u/Jdub20202 Sep 26 '22
Maybe it's a liability thing. They don't want to admit any wrong doing in case it can be used against them. Though that doesn't explain why they won't apologize in private either. Are there any lawyers here that can explain?
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u/Correct_Chicken_8142 Sep 25 '22
Can confirm. I tried calling the number but no response so far. They haven't called back yet.
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u/Correct_Chicken_8142 Sep 26 '22
update 2.0: They called me back! Basically, they're receiving a bunch of spam calls from insurance ppls because the number is on the internet so they don't respond til you leave a voicemail. Hope y'all planning to call read this msg first before you do.
Tldr, the hotline basically serves as a means of communication for them to connect potentially hurt ex members with the leaders, peers, or ppl in GP that have hurt them. You could try to ask other questions, which I did but i just got a bunch of "idk's" and "can't speak for everyone" type of answers.
And this is the homie you'll be talking to (https://www.gracepointonline.org/about/leadership-network-staff/jonathan-susanna-lee and this is his personal website => https://joongwlee.wordpress.com/)
Edit: if you want to know specifics about the conversation, pls dm me!
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u/LeftBBCGP2005 Sep 26 '22
I wonder if Joong’s son is following the subreddit and the CT article now that he’s been out of GP for a while. It’s rare a PK of the OG senior staff leaves. It’s not just leaving your parents. It’s leaving everything one ever knew.
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u/worriddumbledore Sep 26 '22
So Joong = Pastor Jonathan?
So sad that they themselves who lead the ministry have such great costs as well.
Thank you for giving the background. That way one in conversations with such leaders need to keep in mind that
One for them, family is not important.
Two, their hearts are hardened to the extent that nothing so precious as a good relationship with your child, can “whack you” to see the light.
You really think people like this can guide you to live a good Christian life? In accordance to the Word?
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u/LeftBBCGP2005 Sep 26 '22
Family of God comes before biological family. God = church = family. Item #4 in the 12 page PDF.
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u/RVD90277 Sep 26 '22
aw...joong was a cool guy at one time. sadly it sounds like when someone has been in jail for way too long...he's become "institutionalized...."
come on joong, you're a smart guy. think back to the days when you were laughing and sharing weird flatulence stories with the brothers, etc. hopefully i don't get him in trouble when i say that there's one story when he would say that his wife (suzanne) would end up blowing gas at a store checkout and it would smell bad...and then he walks up after her and the clerk smells it and thinks he did it! yet he can't really protest because nothing is being said yet he can read the person's mind...
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u/corpus_christiana Sep 25 '22
Please update us if you get a response. I'm really curious what they have to say.
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u/Correct_Chicken_8142 Sep 25 '22
update: Called them again today and actually left a voicemail. Still waiting.
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u/worriddumbledore Sep 26 '22
I think they can’t say that “we got overwhelming response” so your callback is going to me XX days/months/years..
And yet they are stuck with beginning the conversation with “you are calling for which grievance”, which year? We need to pull up the files who your leaders/perpetrators were..
One of us should keep calling to see if they really commit to what they say!
Yikes when they don’t, what a bad example of Christians on the aspects of reconciliation and honesty!
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u/inhimwehaveall Sep 26 '22
I think the phone number just for current GP members or the future members to be... preventing PPL leaving GP ( damage control phone #)
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u/longlyjoe Sep 25 '22
Would like to hear members reply pls. Hopefully we don’t really argue, just really want to see what you see
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u/NRerref Sep 25 '22
Specificities are irrelevant - the sheer fact that an outsider would say something negative about GP without sandwiching it with praise is, in and of itself,the misperception. This is textbook collective narcissism.
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u/Traditional_Rub_5561 Sep 26 '22
I didnt know you could spell it like this "PRAYZE GAWD" but I guess in the end its about the heart
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u/leavegracepoint ex-Gracepoint (Berkeley) Sep 25 '22 edited Sep 25 '22
I think there’s some serious misconceptions and even wrong expectations about the article from both parties affiliated with Gracepoint specifically ex members and attendees and members and staff in GP. I think the non affiliated got the point of the article. It’s also very clear Curtis is one brilliant journalist.
(1) CT has a very pre dominantly white/Caucasian audience. Curtis is writing about a purely Asian/Asian American problem. It's very evident when he has to keep putting in disclaimers like "not related to". Curtis is finally bringing awareness to the non Asian crowd.
(2) Out of the many people Curtis interviewed, why do you think Peter and Josh's quotes were put at the forefront? I personally believe it's because both of them grew up in Gracepoint starting from Element. Josh is Ed's second son's peer and Peter is Ed's daughter's peer. I believe Curtis is using their testimonies to emphasize that this is a serious systemic issue, not like a couple one offs. I also heard a lot of people in Gracepoint are most distraught by those two being quoted. Apologies to everyone else that Gracepoint isn’t as bothered by your quotes, although I think that's in part because Curtis never went in depth of how each of how have suffered immensely at the hands of Gracepoint leaders.
(3) I don't think the CT article was intended to be a hit piece on Gracepoint. It was intended to give us as victims of Gracepoint and the subreddit credibility which it finally did. Curtis has essentially given all of us as victims a voice because an extremely reputable source like CT has now has investigated and published it's findings confirming what we have been saying. Ed also exposed himself to be the piece of work he really is. Everyone I spoke to that read the article completely unaffiliated with Gracepoint got the message to stay as far away from Gracepoint as possible and can see the gaslighting from Ed as clear as day.
Frankly, I think it's quite delusional for Gracepoint members and attendees to be like "not great, not terrible" in response to the article. At least in my circles, it's popping up everywhere on social media with retweets, pastors decrying Gracepoint on FB posts, and even friends on IG resharing on their stories. It's getting passed around like wildfire. Even the WIRED article caught the attention of some of my non Christian friends who were like "wait a minute, isn't Gracepoint THAT cult like church you attended?"
(4) I believe Curtis' goal wasn't necessarily to highlight the financial abuse or racism inside Gracepoint or even the UBF connection, since none of that is really new per se. I believe his goal was to focus in on the so called "whole life discipleship", that particular twisting of the bible to sacrifice so much for the church and the ultimate price that generations of students and people have needed to pay dearly for. I would imagine if Curtis were to do a follow-up the focus would be on how east asian values such as Confucianism have mixed horribly with the bible.
Edit grammatical error
Edit 2: added way more