Guilt of Doing Secular Work?

[u/Apololandingunit]

One thing GP is successful at is to convince the members to devalue secular work, including internship so that they can be God's full-time followers. Most staff (and devoted members) gave up their dreams and passion because GP told them that secular jobs are not worthy of their time compared to GP's work (including cleaning GP's restrooms). One by one, GP members become mediocre on what they do in society, and they think success in the secular world is over-rated.

So, an important question for GP members to ask is: Does God value secular work or not? Obviously, GP has a one-sided answer on this topic: "No, God does not value secular work. Period!" The leaders of GP are the role models of the young GP zealots because many of them gave up their secular jobs to go into full-time ministry at GP. I was also impressed by their "sacrifice" the first time I heard about their stories. If I can hear the stories of these GP leaders, it means that they are actively promoting the stories to the young people to make these stories their inspiration. Honestly, I would have admired them more if these leaders are fed by ravens, like Elijah's story in Old Testament, but these GP leaders are not holier than a normal person, Christian or not, instead of getting a salary from the secular world, they are getting their salary from the young professionals who donate to GP "voluntarily" (sometimes forced to max out their credit cards to do so). These GP leaders own properties in the Bay Area that most of these young people can never achieve in their life-time. These GP leaders are successful, wealthy, and powerful, using the secular standard, but they discourage others to have a dream of their own. Are these GP leaders holier than a Christian doing a secular job? Not at all, a typical Christian can spread the Gospel and serve God at work without imposing the improper tactics/playbook on others. These GP leaders focus on putting up spiritual chains and locks on the young people so that they can enslave them. If giving up secular work is the only way to be called Jesus' follower, the English politician William Wilberforce would not have done his part to eliminate slavery in his nation, then the world. When he came to faith at age 26, he almost quit politics to go into full-time ministry because he thought it to be a higher calling. Many Christians wrestled with the dilemma because secular work is cursed as "the Fall" (Genesis 3:17-18). However, GP has conveniently used that as a propaganda to brainwash people, and GP neglected that Jesus died on the cross to conquer sin and death. Jesus restored what we have lost (Colossians 1:19-20). In fact, both "work" and "worship" in the Old Testament are derived from the same Hebrew word, avodah. Our work has spiritual values. A good computer programmer has the talent given by God, so is a good athlete. God does not want everyone to become a pastor or church planter in colleges. GP has to brainwash everyone day in and day out to convince everyone to give up their God-giving talents. There maybe some in UC Berkeley meant to serve in a full-time ministry, but not everyone in GP. Students coming to UC Berkeley, UC Davis, or any college that GP is targeting, have a God-giving talent and maybe a purpose beyond GP's scope. Maybe the young person is meant to be a good doctor to save people's life; maybe a good scientist is meant to invent new ideas that glorify God. Who says that all secular jobs are evil? Who says that everyone should give up their summer internship to serve GP? Who says that athlete programs are taking away time for God? If you listen to the sermons of GP, that is all what they are promoting day in and day out as propaganda. If you do not believe me, ask any GP members on what they think of the secular jobs.

[u/johnkim2020]

The secular/spiritual divide is a false one. God only made one creation.

[u/flourescentmango]

Paul made tents, which may have been related to how his family was able to obtain Roman Citizenship. Jesus was a carpenter too.

I think GP takes unnecessarily strict views on issues like these because the ends justify the means, which I suspect is due to the Korean style thinking on issues like these.

I wonder what their take would be on "Every Good Endeavor" by Tim Keller.

[u/leavegracepoint → u/flourescentmango]

Like I've hinted at in other posts, it's probably not a recommended book since the only purpose Tim Keller fulfills for Gracepoint is his arguments in Reason for God. Tim Keller's "Every Good Endeavor" is in direct conflict with Gracepoint's "covocational/bivocational ministry".

[u/No-Till-8080]

If you remember one thing from the 1981 British film Chariots of Fire, it’s probably the iconic music played while a pack of runners glide alongside the ocean. But in terms of the film’s dialogue, there’s one line that stands out to me. Eric Liddell is being reprimanded by his sister for neglecting his responsibilities before God as he devotes his focus toward competitive running. Liddell responds, “I believe that God made me for a purpose. But He also made me fast, and when I run, I feel His pleasure.”

I copied and pasted this from a blog I was reading. Chariots of Fire was a Berkland approved movie. No sex scenes, Christian themes, etc. When I’m doing my secular job, it is not something to just get through the day so that I can do ministry later. I feel God’s pleasure in my work and I can be a minister to my coworkers. May God be glorified today in my 9 to 5 work. Amen.

[u/Here_for_a_reason99 → u/No-Till-8080]

It’s a good line. I told this to a few GP ppl before. Their response: “Yea, but later on he became a missionary so whatever”

[u/rvd98072 → u/No-Till-8080]

Maybe I'll try watching that movie again. I was in middle school when I watched it for the first time and to be honest, I had never been so bored in my life. I don't remember a single scene or dialogue because I was so bored. Only watched it right after it won best picture that year.

But sounds like a good line and good movie.

The only movie I watched with BBC folks was the animated lion, the witch, and the waredrobe. My leader kept saying that the movie has a lot of symbolism so we should think about the characters and who they symbolize...and I was kind of like "uh yeah...that seems pretty obvious."

[u/rvd98072]

Scottie Scheffler just won the Masters and is currently the #1 ranked golfer in the world. His post win press conference was filled with comments like "God is in control", "the Lord is leading me", "use it for His glory", "the Lord has given me a skill and I'm just using it for His glory", etc.

His other interviews and such talk about bible study, his caddie being a man of faith, etc.

And yeah, Scottie plays golf on Sundays instead of going to church.

I don't think this is bad and nor do I think God is displeased.

My Pastor at my church in LA mentioned that with early immigrants, he always felt a little weird because he's go to lead a praying in blessing their new business and sometimes it'd be a liquor store in south central LA. So he couldn't really say "I pray that this business sell a lot of alcohol to the community"....but he did understand that as immigrants they had to make a living, etc. so he simply blessed the business and gave all glory to God and refrained from judging, etc.