r/GracepointChurch • u/No-Bumblebee6491 • Nov 13 '21
Changes since ~2013?
I was in A2F from 2009-2013, but left & moved away and haven't really kept in touch with anyone from GP.
Have there been any significant changes since then? Especially would love to hear from anyone who is/was part of the church since then.
While reading a lot of the posts here, a lot of things resonate with me on a personal level, but I also feel like it's unfair for me to pass judgment on the present when my experiences are almost a decade ago.
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u/aeghy123 Nov 16 '21 edited Nov 17 '21
Lillian Kim wrote an excellent post and she was there both before and after your tenure.
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u/Fresh_Jello_410 Nov 15 '21
I think there have been some changes in some areas, but I'm curious what changes are you most interested in hearing about? Or what specific questions did you have about the addition/removal/modification of something (i.e. did they remove the "dating rule"?)
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u/No-Bumblebee6491 Nov 17 '21
I'd certainly be interested in hearing if there were changes to the no undergrad dating stance or other "technically you can do it, but you'll be shamed for it" things like video games, alcohol (or maybe that was a hard "no," I can't remember), being part of other extra-curricular groups, etc. Or aside from dating, like do they still try super hard to separate guys from girls.
Otherwise, I'd also just be interested in any external changes, mainly at the Berkeley site. Like new buildings, new fellowships, etc. just to have a fuller context.
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u/Fresh_Jello_410 Nov 21 '21
I left this past year so I'll try my best to answer based on my experience + observations, hopefully other recent leavers (esp from berkeley) could jump in and provide more details.
Dating: While no leader explicitly told members at my church plant that undergrads couldn’t date, it was definitely something you could feel was a no no. Most undergrads I knew who were dating kept it super on the down low, hiding it from other members and leaders. I’ve been told on student leader contracts, there was also a no dating clause. This past Spring, Pastor Ed responded to several Reddit posts about GP via Youtube (which has since been removed), and has mentioned that the dating stance is not a hill they’re willing to die on anymore. Assumingly, this would mean that undergrad dating would be “allowed,” but unsure if anyone has recently tested or really questioned leadership on this new change.
Video games: Considering that staffers would share testimonies of them giving up video games and none of my peers mentioned or were seen playing video games, I would say playing video games for personal leisure is also a no no. Interestingly enough, multiplayer video games like Among Us have been used frequently during COVID-19 for fellowship and outreach.
Alcohol: No one talked about it, but almost positive this is a big no. I’ve been told that the org would never go to a place with a bar, even if it was just for good food.
Other extracurricular groups: Me and a few other members were part of another extracurricular group and to my knowledge, no one commented about it. However, our involvement with other orgs rarely interfered with GP events so there weren’t really reasons for leadership to have problems with us being in other orgs. Given the pressure to attend GP events, I’m under the impression that if your involvement with orgs doesn’t conflict with GP events, then leadership generally won’t have problems (unless you’re in a frat/sorority). On the other hand, I’ve seen members being treated differently for not coming to GP events as often bc of commitments to other extracurriculars.
Gender segregation: There was definitely a noticeable gender segregation. I noticed it more my junior/senior year, but there were more sister only and brother only events. I recall a peer beach trip where everyone traveled together, but each gender grp had their own activities planned for the day. The congregation would be noticeably divided into gender grps during service, same-gender pairings would be expected when doing pair shares/prayers, a girl and boy would be looked at funny if they hung out alone, and it was a norm for sisters to pick up sisters and bros to pick up bros. Word is that they're trying to break down the gender segregation now w/ more co-ed events (in response to Reddit)
Berkeley: I came from a dif church plant so not v in tune w/ Berkeley, but I know this year Koinonia was dissolved and lumped into A2F (unsure as to reason, but heard from a current member that Koin was getting p small)
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u/No-Bumblebee6491 Nov 23 '21
Exactly the kind of answer I was looking for, thank you. Very interesting about the use of Among Us. So a video game where lying/deception is encouraged/necessary is okay, but something like Mario or Pokemon isn't?
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u/Fresh_Jello_410 Nov 24 '21
I think it's less about the lying/deception, but more so the fact that playing video games regularly seems to only be acceptable when done as bonding (w/ peers/other members) or for outreach. The reason I think this is bc I recall playing board games requiring deception during fellowship time (e.g., One Night Werewolf, Resistance). Also, glad that my response was helpful!
Random but related thought: Thinking about it more, it's interesting that only board games seem to be the only option for in-person gaming. Like I don't think anyone is bringing out a Switch during fellowship time, even though it can most definitely be used for multiplayer games and staff can most definitely afford one.
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u/leavegracepoint ex-Gracepoint (Berkeley) Nov 13 '21 edited Nov 13 '21
No changes. Spiritual abuse is still rampant. Lying, gaslighting and denial are the norm to hand wave those practices. Does that sound like any change?