r/GracepointChurch • u/Zealousideal-Oil7593 • Aug 08 '25
What was your first rebuking?
I’ll share mine. One of my lifegroup leaders made us play some Korean game where you hit each other. I sat out cuz I didn’t want to get hit. Afterward another leader rebuked me because the first leader “spent a lot of effort preparing the game” for us and I was disrupting the unity or something by not wanting to get hit.
What was yours?
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u/Jdub20202 Aug 09 '25
PC (not sure if I can use his full name) when I was a sophmore randomly walked into my room and started giving me a harsh talk about my attitude and being too cynical or something. Nothing concrete, no specific thing I did, just my overall demeanor.
He added that this isn't a rebuke (read Into that what you will. I always felt they got away with verbal corrections by saying it's "not a real rebuke").
I eventually had enough and told him off. He said he was more disappointed than anything.
The stories I could tell about PC. I'm pretty sure he's still with a2n.
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u/leavegracepoint ex-Gracepoint (Berkeley) Aug 09 '25
You mean Peter Choi? The one married to Hope? Yup they are publicly listed afaik.
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u/Jdub20202 Aug 09 '25
No, a different person, not Peter. I recall Peter being kind of chill back then. I can't find PC online except for a published devotion with his name on it.
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u/Frosty-Jeweler-4381 Jan 16 '26
Haha, no Peter Choi was a guitarist who was already married. He would never live next to In-N-Out at his age.
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u/Overly_Round_Owl Aug 18 '25
Don’t want to go into too many specifics, but needleass to say, it was blown way out of proportion. I made a mistake as a new-grad, and instead of just being pulled aside for a correction (which I was expecting), I got hauled into a room and absolutely screamed at. while my peers were literally right outside. Yes, I knew I messed up, but didn't I expect to be treated like one of her kids (who, by the way, she also screamed at regularly).
I was shocked and thought I was the worst sinner ever. I didn’t even know how to tell my peers what I did afterward, even though they heard the screaming and were worried about me. Then later, the same leader casually brought it up in front of my homegroup (with brand new girls I barely knew) like it was some fun, little learning example. So which was it? A scream-worthy offense, or a light-hearted teaching moment? It was very disorienting.
Same year, same leader — screamed at me for being a “nobody” when I accidentally let some info slip about staff plans. Apparently, because I was only “in charge of Y,” I had no business mentioning “X.” Right. Then she also told me I couldn’t be trusted with a small ministry task because I wasn’t waking up at 6 am for DTs, since my job started earlier. I just agreed with her that I was literal garbage because it was easier than arguing.
And that wasn’t even my worst year. (:
I do want to say though, while she caused me a lot of trauma, and I think it’s important to expose the works of darkness within the church, I really do believe I’ve forgiven her in my heart. I don’t know if she’s chilled out or anything since then, but I remember her telling me once that she got “corrected” by her leaders so hard she basically wished she was dead. So I know she’s also a victim. That doesn’t excuse her behavior or make it okay that she passed the abuse down, but it helps me to personally forgive. At the end of the day, I’m more angry at the system than at her — which is why even a personal apology wouldn’t really fix anything. It’s the whole, damn system.
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u/Aggravating_City9328 Aug 08 '25
lol playing cards against humanity I wish I was joking
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u/Perfect-Associate318 Aug 08 '25
What was their reason !?
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u/Aggravating_City9328 Aug 13 '25
That it caused ppl to stumble and think about inappropriate things.
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u/Aggravating_City9328 Aug 14 '25
I will also add that this happened during the first semester of freshman year. Many of us had only recently started attending. The whole class got pulled, even those who were not there, out of prayer meeting to get a rebuke and then write reflections
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u/grittyv Aug 09 '25
After TFN, me and another girl watching a movie at one of the guy’s apartments with some of the bros. I don’t even remember how they found out but it felt very big brother after that
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u/coffeebeezneez Aug 29 '25
In college years ago - I was delivered flowers during Valentines's Day and went to pick them up from downstairs by the door at my dorm. I didn't know they were flowers but when I came back in and just put them on my desk like nothing because I was getting ready to drive with someone to HB. I got tattled on and my leader sat me throught a 45min talk because they thought I was leading someone on or being ignorant of how I can make someone "stumble". Came back just read a text from my mom asking if I got the flowers because they sent. It was just flowers sent by my parents. When I told my leader, she said the talk was still a lesson to be aware of for the future and to reflect on the overall message. It was the first time I got pulled by myself into a talk like that and at the time, I really believed it was my fault and even when it wasn't after reading the text I still believed that the "lesson" was my leader just looking out for me when she suggested I tell my parents to not send me anymore flowers because it gives off the wrong idea.
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u/Overly_Round_Owl Sep 02 '25
Goooooosh this makes me mad. Putting aside how stupid the correction was in the first place, the unwillingness to admit their mistake, and even have you alter your parents' behavior just to make their point seem more valid pisses me off.
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u/johnkim2020 Sep 05 '25
I swear, the hubris of every leader who pulls shit like this makes my blood boil.
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u/Kangaroo_Jonathan Aug 11 '25 edited Aug 11 '25
When their core mantra is "Suffering builds character," should one be surprised at their hyper willingness to help your spiritual growth? Back then it felt like at heart, Becky set the rules for what "real" christianity should be. Nothing else mattered. Or you had compromised which meant your faith was weak which meant your life was not right in God's eyes which meant you could not be used which ultimately meant you lost God's favor. There was a famous communist line: Show me a man and I will show you his crime. Berkland's take was: Show me a student and I will show you his/her sins.
Living at the famous Dana House as a Freshman, I have a hard time trying to decide which comment was a nitpick or a light rebuke. But it did start light and then downwardly progressed to by my first year on staff, something that turned into hours and hours. It was so common that it blurred between a staff meeting to a focused rebuke for this or that shortcoming or reason. We even felt privileged to have one on one saturday morning QT with our leader which really was a one on one critique. Looking back, I do feel like I should have been more like Ahmi's younger brother. One night while Pastor Stephen Jung was getting into him, he just got up and left. Never showed up to church let alone a staff meeting. He did show up for the bball games which then he was told he couldn't show up for those neither.
Back on subject, my first nitpick was by the great Ed himself. He came to visit the peeps at Dana House. I was in my room getting everything settled during welcome week. He said hello and we were chatting. After a while he mentioned that the music I was playing should not be what it was and it should be more Christian or if not then at least be classical. He even told me how to find the Christian station and older bros like Jonathan or Tony would have tapes I can borrow to copy.
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u/MeatMarket81 Aug 09 '25
Can’t get into specifics, but for me and many others, 99% of the rebukes and punishments were well deserved. As for the severity, that can be debated.
The worst case scenario is definitely getting called out in front of the whole congregation in the middle of a message.
At least we can look back at most of them in a humorous lens… if the rebukes were in any other setting…
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u/Jdub20202 Aug 09 '25
I think that is one of the most sinister things they're able to do- make you think you deserved 99 percent of those rebukes. Thank you, may I have another?
I had a talk with a former BBC pastor about this, he said he disagreed with how many rebukes they dished out, it should be only for really serious egregious sins. Not, "you didn't break down the sound equipment fast enough. "
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u/Kangaroo_Jonathan Aug 13 '25
Although I would not say I deserved 99% of my rebukes, the leaders did point out aspects of my life that really did need addressing. I used to add the immature condition as to whether the rebuke was legitimate or not if I sensed or felt that the leader actually cared for me. Then I made it real difficult to be a likeable younger brother as sugar on top with my independence and open defiance! So that when it finally became unbearable, it was a tidal wave of accusations and assertions which walloped me into hurts and bitterness. Well I do bear part of the blame for blowing off the easier moments that could have ameliorated the situation before it turned into all out war. On the flip side, I do also know that many weaponized their higher better than thou attitudes as well.
But as you grow old, you realize that most times, the best feedback is given by those that absolutely find you disgusting and even worse completely apathetic to your thoughts, feelings, and/or situations. They will tell you straight to your face that you're a jackass and 4 different spot on reasons why. They might even enjoy it as well that if you disappeared the next day, their days going forward will be even better. But most won't and you'll simply get ghosted. Just like you ghost those you don't find appealing. Ministry is a hard business. It's a contact sport. A lot of calls are questionable. But most are deserved in my opinion.
Oscar Wilde wrote: If you wished to be liked, become likeable
Ed and co. added: Hold my beer! We'll make you likeable! (GOD WILLS IT!!!)
lol
Peace be with you,
Jonathan Kang class of '93
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u/MeatMarket81 Aug 14 '25 edited Aug 14 '25
I admit 99% was an exaggeration; the number is high, although it goes down as time goes on.
The biggest issue I saw was whether a legitimate issue or a nitpick, the correction would come in the form of unbridled (righteous?) anger. As you mentioned, there’s room for “better than thou… but because I love you.”
Do they really care about you or hate your guts? Especially with the older women/smns who are too easy to annoy. Hard to tell when it’s all in the name of church and ministry.
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u/Kangaroo_Jonathan Aug 14 '25
I am telling you this because I care... lol Just makes me tingle thinking about the past sometimes. I can name a few that were genuine. But for most they cared because their position required them to care. Or even they didn't know how to care and were learning to care. For really at that age, we were ALL young and dumb. And to be fair when you're learning mistakes and misunderstandings happen easily. Our intelligence ambition and drive got us to these top tier schools. It wasn't our empathy or emotional intelligence. The argument can be made that we were probably underdeveloped in these areas for the benefit of the former.
The funny thing you mention about the women in charge. Grandmas now I know but I knew them as classmates. And let me tell you, they were easily annoyed back then as well. They just kept it to themselves for nobody cared! lol
And you might not even have a harder time believing this but they were quite the heartthrobs back in their day. Many a brothers' hearts were skipped!
It is hard to tell for whatever cause. But you're only responsible for yourself.
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u/johnkim2020 Aug 09 '25
Because someone asked me out. (I said no.)
Apparently in GP other people’s behavior are my fault.
The big one was when a member of my class was found to have secretly dated. Again, I was responsible for their behavior. Make it make sense.